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  #81  
07-29-2014, 12:25 PM
rumburaski rumburaski is offline
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If I remember correctly Ag 1980 does not share the same TBC. Ag 1980 has its unique TBC configuration. Video cards are not interchangeable.
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  #82  
10-06-2014, 10:41 AM
MMIndy MMIndy is offline
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I'm just starting the process of recapping, and it definitely is a daunting process. This is probably a stupid question, but I'm hoping someone who has done this has some advice. My board is similar to this picture that someone has posted. There are a few surface mount caps on the Y/C board that are very close to the white plastic ribbon connectors. I don't think I can fit my soldering tip in there without melting the white plastic. Is it possible to solder it quickly enough to not damage the connectors? Or is it possible to desolder the connectors to get them out of the way? Thanks in advance.
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  #83  
10-06-2014, 03:35 PM
videonut videonut is offline
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"Many professionsal will not provide answers for free - getting paid for answers after all their living.
And many do not want to continue work after the end of the work day."

As you noticed this "professionsal" provided us with an answer. I guess he is not going to give you his "proffesionsal" opinion unless you pay.

I think you are smarter than this character. Use common sense and practice before you start soldering.
From my experience this boards are of very good quality and they do not strip easy, unless you are pulling to hard and/or not heating enough. Overheating is also not welcomed. Do not direct the heat towards the plastic. I never had any problems, ever. Be gentle with the board and be safe. Good luck.
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  #84  
10-07-2014, 02:12 PM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
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The connector plastic will melt if in contact with an iron tip, it is not high temp resistant.
Removing the connectors would likely be a pain and involve a lot of extra effort.

You should be able to find a soldering tool with tips thin enough to fit in the space between the SMD cap and the connctor if you exercise some care. I have one or two irons I have accumulated over the years that fit.

Some of the hot air rework stations include both hot air and conventional soldering irons with a variety of tips that might work, but I have not tried any of them, and I have yet to work on that specific board (time is scarce).

The SMD electrolytic caps seem to be a common problem for all electronics from the 1990s. I have a Shure LX4 wireless receiver from 1997 that had several SMDs in the compander and audio output section that had high ESR and leakage resulting in op amp bias shifts, distortion, and eventually output failure. Since there was room on the circuit board I replaced them with radial lead caps.
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  #85  
10-08-2014, 02:01 PM
videonut videonut is offline
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Nobody said to touch any plastic with a hot iron, so do not attempt to twist my words.
It was very easy for me to do it. Like I said this are very good quality boards and can take a lot of abuse.
How do you think those caps were mounted there.....
You need a soldering station first and once you get it, I will walk you free of charge..... or you can choose a "professionsal" and pay.
You have to be able to set up the temperature at a certain value. It can be done just with a soldering gun with fine tip without destroying the board. You can get one that has hot air and some will have also special adapter for soldering SMD caps. It is detailed work and needs concentration, patience and skills.
Let me know if you want to proceed.
If you have no experience in soldering than you will have to pay.
I remember on fleebay was something for sale. Nobody will tell you and some will cut corners in refurbishing, but get one board that has ALL electrolytic caps replaced, if you can find one. From my memory usually the 1uf, 10 uf, 22uf and 4.7uf are toasted, but too often I noticed some 47uf smd caps and regular aluminium electrolytic caps are out of range too.
Leave the tantalum caps alone.
Be safe and be wise in making your decisions.
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  #86  
10-08-2014, 07:13 PM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
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Quote:
Nobody said to touch any plastic with a hot iron, so do not attempt to twist my words.
Read more: Panasonic AG-1980 capacitor repair?
Actually, the response was intended for MMindy, not targeted to videonut or his posts.
It provided further reason to not touch the plastic with a soldering iron.

The earlier post with respect to participation by professionals was a response to videonut's statement about "...not get straight answer at any of my questions. Wonder why..." I now see it was rhetorical and deeply regret taking the time to reply.
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  #87  
10-09-2014, 09:29 AM
videonut videonut is offline
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To dpalomaki this is a place where people are supposed to exchange knowledge and I did not see that coming from you, unless you are on a mission.
Cheers.
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  #88  
10-10-2014, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videonut View Post
this is a place where people are supposed to exchange knowledge
Yes it is.

Video, photo and web dev/hosting topics are both hobbies AND the profession of those that run digitalFAQ.com. We believe firmly in demystifying these topics, and in providing consumer awareness of good/bad methods to achieve it. Yes, in some cases, that does mean to not attempt it yourself, or that you'd get better results by paying others.

Whether you choose to solder is up to you. Some can do it well, others may start a fire.

If you've never soldered anything, be careful, you may break something beyond repair. In that case, it's probably best to pay others. If you can wield it like a third appendage, then go for it, you'll probably be fine. I'm horrible when it comes to soldering, and leave that to others. When the gear was really important (or rare), I insist it just be outsourced to a reputable repair shop.

Even professionals use others professionals.

Some of us do share our knowledge.

And I know what you mean about the a-hole "professionals". Many of "those type of people" are actually not really that skilled at what they're doing. They don't share knowledge because it's shaky at best, and they're afraid to get caught with their pants down. They have no confidence in themselves, no self esteem. Therefore, they hide what they're doing. I've run into an ungodly amount of BS in my years, across several fields. You can spot "those people" rather easily if you yourself are skilled in the subject. The worst is probably the hosting field, because it has a very low entry barrier. Lots of "admins" don't know their @ss from their elbow, and are not really admins at all (zero real-world experience in Linux or Windows servers, beyond a cPanel GUI).

Real professionals have no issues admitting where their knowledge stops. They don't just fudge it like the posers.

Anyway, be good to each other.

Let's try to get back on-topic here...

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  #89  
10-11-2014, 01:03 PM
videonut videonut is offline
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So look for a Y/C board for AG 1980 that was recaped. Do not throw away your Panasonic AG 1980. Can be fixed and from my humble experience if it is fixed correctly beats easily a JVC in performance and durability. I read a lot of stories about JVC, but I did compare it with 7600. 9500 and 9800 and the Panasonic performed much better. It is possible that some home made videos will play better on a JVC, but I did not experience that. The flip side is that JVC does not need to be overhauled, so expect to perform still very good even used.
Just my 2 cents and good luck.
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  #90  
11-03-2014, 09:45 PM
GDogTech GDogTech is offline
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Does anyone know if rumburaski is still active here and/or doing the Panasonic 5710/1980 repairs? He sort of offered to do repairs in this thread some time ago. I want to talk to him about possibly repairing my unit. I sent him a PM several days ago and have not heard anything. Has anyone here used him for their repairs? If so, can you speak for his work?
Thanks,
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  #91  
11-04-2014, 12:31 AM
rumburaski rumburaski is offline
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I am still active. I got smarter now. I charge $275 for the recap of power supply, mother board, video card and display pcb. Anything else is extra. All payments to be made via money order. Also, as far as I can see I may be the only few ones that can dismantle your unit like a yellow banana, then return it unit to factory specs. Turnaround 3 days. You don't have to make a decision today. Think about it.
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  #92  
11-04-2014, 06:12 PM
GDogTech GDogTech is offline
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Hi rumburaski, and thanks for responding! Glad to see you are still active and offering the service. I always thought $65 or $95 was way too cheap for the amount of effort required to do this type of thing, but hey, if you were willing to do it for that, I was willing to take advantage of it. That said however, I am actually glad you "got smarter" because if it is not profitable for you, you won't be motivated to continue doing it.

I am considering sending one or both of my 5710's to you (or someone) for repair. Since you didn't respond to my PM, I feel compelled to ask my questions here publicly:
  1. Caps: Does this price include the better quality Nichicon Caps? If not those, then what? I don't want to have to do this again in another 5 years, so I would want to use the best Caps available that are, of course cost effective. What about using the dry Aluminum Caps? Too expensive?
  2. Testing: Do you test all Caps before installing them?
  3. TBC & Y/C: You did not mention the TBC circuits or the Y/C Card. Are these part of the "video card" or "motherboard" circuits perhaps that you DID mention? Are these two circuits included in your price? If not, how much extra to do them?
  4. Shipping: Is the Return Shipping included?
  5. Payment: Is PayPal OK instead of a M.O.?
  6. Extras: I am interested in installing an exhaust Fan. Do you know of a PCB location where 12V or 5V can be pulled at around 300mA without upsetting the balance of power for other circuits? If so, what would you charge to stub out a small wire or two at that location?
  7. Referrals: Have you done any work for any of the members here or over at the VideoHELP Forum? If so, could you tell me who (*Pen name only of course) and allow me to contact them for referrences?
That's pretty much it. Thank you for everything!
Gary
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  #93  
11-17-2014, 09:09 PM
GDogTech GDogTech is offline
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rumburaski: Did I say something to offend you? If I did, I sure didn't mean to. It's been almost 2 weeks now. I thought I would have heard from you by now. Whats up anyway?
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  #94  
11-18-2014, 12:10 AM
rumburaski rumburaski is offline
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No I am cool. I have been working on my regular job lately. Electronics is my serious hobby. For the price I gave I use general purpose caps, which works well in my bench tests. I can do nippon or nichicon caps but it will be a little more. I also tried dry aluminum caps from ebay, but they failed miserably. Cheap alluminum caps test fine on bench. But once the power runs through them they became high ESR. Useless. Counterfeit caps? God knows! I think these units will only take Panasonic aluminum caps, if you decide to go that route. Also, I am limited on the space allowed by video card. Sometimes I have to use very small caps, which may not be nippon. Ag 1980 and AG 5710 do not share an identical card. So I cannot comment on AG 5710 TBC performace. I know the AG 1980 gives results in terms of TBC. Some here argue that both decks are the same. Anyhow, what do you expect your deck will be doing after repairs that is not doing now. What do you think the problem is? Are you getting any kind a video, rainbow, B/W, blue screen of death? Error codes? Dim display? What repairs have been attempted? Review wise, looks like the AG 1980 is the best selling deck at the moment. Where did you get the AG 5710 from? No paypal. No ebay. I had enough of both. MO only. No extras. No extra holes in the unit. Buyer pays shipping both ways. No referals at the moment but you can became my first one.

Last edited by rumburaski; 11-18-2014 at 12:27 AM. Reason: clarification
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  #95  
11-18-2014, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rumburaski View Post
Some here argue that both decks are the same.
I think it's more about the net effect. The 1980 is the same as the 5710, but without the tuner. However, the "without the tuner" probably does cause shifting of components inside, and hence the board may be different. So I'd look at it from a "usage" vs "technical" aspect.

Both positions are correct.

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  #96  
11-18-2014, 10:13 AM
videonut videonut is offline
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Wow.... for only 275 to change almost ALL the capacitors ( if that means recaping the unit) is very very cheap.
There are many hundreds of them. I can tell you just to by the smd's are going to cost you much more than that if they are quality made. The bipolar caps are also expensive and not easy to find, not talking about the tantalum ones if he includes those in the recap ( I doubt). Now if you can change just the few ones that already failed and SOME of the borderline caps, you can get it work again. It will probably be enough to change between 20-40 caps and most of them are on the Y/C board. So not much on the main board, power supply or display board. I wonder how the cheap refurbished units that sell on fleebay look like. I like the guy claiming to change the future bad ones.... I would ask him if he uses a magic ball for that too.... People are funny this days.
Most caps made you know where will fail you miserably in time, and expect those to be used on most repairs. Why? Because everybody wants cheap stuff, and cheap it is. On the fleebay there is a good chance to find very good caps but old stock that are not dry, and are made in Japan. Watch the counterfeit ones. In my opinion it is a gamble. There is a website you can check which caps and what series are good. Even among those mentioned by you there are some series that are as bad as the the penny caps.
To sum it up if you want to do it the right way you will need to:
1.take time and get some knowledge in regards to which caps and serial numbers are proven to be good
2.it will cost quite a pretty penny once you locate them (check also on fleebay, you never know)
3.you will have to acquire the skills to take the unit apart and do some soldering with a soldering gun that can be set at a certain temperature.
4.this unit does not go out of alignment unless you have some mechanical problems and you can find the posted k-mechanism manual and read. If you do not know how to align it, do not take it apart, but try to use high quality grease for electronics. Clean the old grease and apply the new one (see maintenance manual). Ideal would be to take it all apart, inspect, clean and lubricate. That takes a lot of work.
5.Change the pinch roller would be a great idea too. Clean all the heads and do not use a cleaning tape.
6.when you do not use the unit, unplug it.
Just my 2 cents.
Good luck to you, make the decision that is right for you and be safe.
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  #97  
11-18-2014, 11:58 AM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
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I believe the price quote reads
Quote:
$275 for the recap of power supply, mother board, video card and display pcb.
If display = timer board, video card = digital + analog Y/C sections, and motherboard = main + Audio (main) + Video (main) sections in FSM speak. That is about 105 electrolyics with the power supply.

That would cover something appraching half of the electrolytics in the machine but hopefully the most problematic. I would expect mainstream sources such as Mouser or DigiKey to be less likely to sell counterfits.

BADCAPS.NET provides some interesting insight into the plague of bad caps starting back in the late 1990s. It infected some Hi8 camcorders I had as well.

Given the level of effort and time needed to get at the Y/C and other boards in the AG-1980, if the $275 cleans up the machine, it is a reasonable price. Doubly so if you do not already have the tools, expereince, and DIY desire to dig into the machine. Or could be making money with the time you spend recapping. As a point of reference, about 20% of the caps I have removed had excessive ESR, but most were still within capacitance tollerance. Thus they would be problematic mainly in circuit applications where ESR is an important parameter.

With the exception of a few specialized values, most of the electrolytics run in the range of 20 to 40 cents each, and there are around 230 of them counting all boards. That nets to about $65 at Mouser prices for Panasonic brand this past spring. And watch quantity price breaks - if you need 6, it may be cheaper to buy 10!

Are higher quality branded capacitors worth it? Shoud you buy higher rated (voltage and temperature) capacitors? Consider the remaining useful life of the machine as a whole - e.g., is a 15 year life extension sufficient or do you need 30 years? Also, higher rated (voltage, ESR, temperature) caps may be physically larger and not readily fit the available space. Factors to consider before you make a buy.

I am halfway through recapping - and in retrospect, considering what else I could be doing with my time, probably should have sent it out for the $275. As a point of reference, about 20% of the caps I have removed had excessive ESR, but most were still within capacitance tollerance. Thus they would be problematic mainly in circuit applications where ESR is important.

Last edited by dpalomaki; 11-18-2014 at 12:14 PM.
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  #98  
11-18-2014, 12:50 PM
GDogTech GDogTech is offline
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rumburaski:
First of all, nothing you have said would stop me from using you as long as I can get all of my questions and concerns addressed.

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Originally Posted by rumburaski View Post
No I am cool. I have been working on my regular job lately. Electronics is my serious hobby.
Good! Totally understand. Everybody has to eat & pay the bills.

I will answer all of your questions first, and then I have a few of my own:

Quote:
Originally Posted by rumburaski View Post
For the price I gave I use general purpose caps, which works well in my bench tests. I can do nippon or nichicon caps but it will be a little more. I also tried dry aluminum caps from ebay, but they failed miserably. Cheap alluminum caps test fine on bench. But once the power runs through them they became high ESR. Useless. Counterfeit caps? God knows! I think these units will only take Panasonic aluminum caps, if you decide to go that route. Also, I am limited on the space allowed by video card. Sometimes I have to use very small caps, which may not be nippon.
That's all fine, I understand. I just want to use the best quality caps you can obtain that are practical to use for this purpose. I am willing to pay "a little more" for these. Sounds like Aluminum is not on the list and I am OK with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rumburaski View Post
Ag 1980 and AG 5710 do not share an identical card. So I cannot comment on AG 5710 TBC performace. I know the AG 1980 gives results in terms of TBC. Some here argue that both decks are the same.
I didn't ask about the "performance" of the TBC, just wondered if you intended to replace the Caps on that circuitry since you did not mention it specifically in you previous response to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rumburaski View Post
Anyhow, what do you expect your deck will be doing after repairs that is not doing now. What do you think the problem is? Are you getting any kind a video, rainbow, B/W, blue screen of death? Error codes? Dim display? What repairs have been attempted? Review wise, looks like the AG 1980 is the best selling deck at the moment.
The ONLY specific issue I am having right now is a totally DARK front display. I am just very concerned that the Caps in general are starting to age, and now that the display has gone dark, other problems might arise in the near future. Presently, the Video uotput is as good as I ever remember it being. I'm just concerned about it LASTING into the reasonable future. The Deck does not have many hours on it however. I would estimate about 100-150 Capstan Hours at most. See below ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rumburaski View Post
Where did you get the AG 5710 from?
I bought it brand new directly from a commercial AV Dealer in Colorado in 2007 or so. I therefore consider it one of my most prized electronic possessions, which is why I am being so careful about who I send it to. I can't remember the name of the Dealer. As I said, it has only received very light use since I obtained it, since at the time, I had MANY other decks to use as well, including other Top-of-the-Line Panasonics (AG-1980, AG-7650 etc. bought used), several top JVC's (HR-S9500, 9600, & 9800 bought used), and Mitsubishi HS-HD2000U (bought new). When I sold off most of my collection, I decided to keep only this one because it was acquired new and I liked it better than the Mitsubishi. All of the other decks were acquired used. I remodeled my Man-Cave a few years back, and the 5710 got put into storage for a long while (climate controlled). When I put it away it was working perfectly. When I took it out of storage, I was shocked to find the display completely dark at first power up. I have recently acquired an AG-A571P control unit so I could use it, but I don't really like that option very much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rumburaski View Post
No paypal. No ebay. I had enough of both. MO only.
OK then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rumburaski View Post
No extras. No extra holes in the unit.
I don't want you to put holes in the unit. I just want you to stub out a couple of 18g wires (or just the positive wire and I will locate a ground) on any PCB where I could safely pull either 5v or 12v at around 300mAh without causing problems in other circuits. I will do the rest. I just want to install a cooling fan somewhere inside if possible. If this is not doable, I guess I could use one of those external cooling solutions, but they don't look so great and don't work so good either, that's all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rumburaski View Post
Buyer pays shipping both ways.
No problem, just wanted to be clear on that point.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rumburaski View Post
No referals at the moment but you can became my first one.
That could happen for sure!

Now my questions:
  1. Cap quality upgrade: Could you give me an idea of how much more money we would be talking about to use the better quality Nippon or Nichicon caps throughout? You don't have to commit right now, just a general idea.
  2. Testing Caps: Do you test all the Caps that are intended to go into the units you repair before you install them?
  3. Which Caps: As I said, I am concerned about the AGE of the Caps in my 5710 and the possibility of failure in the near future even though they might look OK right now. Given what you do normally and what I have told you about my 5710, how would you decide WHICH Caps you are going to replace? Do you just arbitrarily replace ALL of the Caps on certain given circuits? This is what you seemed to indicate previously, and is why I asked about the TBC and the Y/C, since you didn't mention those circuits specifically.

That's all for now, Thanks,
Gary
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  #99  
11-18-2014, 11:56 PM
rumburaski rumburaski is offline
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A1: Let's say general purpose caps are about $55. Nippon caps can be at least double the price, if not more. If you want to go extreme, I can get Panasonic caps, perhaps for triple the price.
A2: I do test caps before soldering. However, the capacitance and ESR are somewhat subjective. Cold test is a good quantitative indicator. Quality can not be determined with a 100% certainty, just from hooking up an ESR meter. For example, a cap can test perfectly fine when cold, yet in the circuit can have excessive noise. As a rule of thumb I stay away from the cheapest caps, because of this reason.
A3: I believe most of the TBC problems are related to bad caps on the video card. If that doesn't correct the problem. I am looking for a bad integrated circuit.
A4: Dark display is not a good sign. It may be an indicator that it has reached its end life. On the other hand, a dim display can be improved by replacing the caps. The worst case scenario you will need a donor display.
A5: I don't modify units period. This will void my warranty. Therefore, no extra wire(s) hanging out from the unit.
A6: This is not a total electrolytic capacitor replacement, unless is one of those rare units that was hit by plague. Replacing all electrolytics is fine by me. You are looking at a $1400 parts and mostly labor.

Last edited by rumburaski; 11-19-2014 at 12:04 AM. Reason: spelling
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  #100  
11-19-2014, 09:30 AM
videonut videonut is offline
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You are absolutely correct and very low in price.
$1400 plus the cost of a used unit plus shipping both ways is like $1600. Does it include ALL the electrolityc caps, not just main board, display pcb, Y/C card? If includes ALL of them and you use only high quality made in Japan caps, I might send you few units also. I did this in the past for myself and took me months to gather all the parts and another 2-3 weeks to replace them, if I remember correctly. I overhauled the mechanics also, but that is a different story. It was a lot of work and I really appreciate someone taking its time to do that. Just thinking of replacing those extra hundreds of caps in the audio cards and in the tuner... You are a treasure and I do not know if anybody would do that for so little. We are talking replacing 400 or maybe more capacitors.....I know is a lot of money but this is titanic work, and in my humble opinion is well worth it.
Thank you.
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