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  #1  
04-12-2015, 01:04 AM
TheCatacomb TheCatacomb is offline
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I just finished getting all my equipment for my VHS to DVD transfers; I got a SR-V10U, TBC-1000 and the Dr-M100. Hooked everything up and was finally ready to transfer my OOP VHS to dvd, but when I press REC on the M100, nothing happens.

I've followed all the instructions to a T: I'm using Verbatim DVD-R's, s-video cables, and the FR155 recording mode. Is my Dr-m100 defective? I thought I was good to go since I didn't get the dreaded LOADING message, the blank disk was recognized, and everything was working fine up until I pressed REC. Tried pressing Rec on both front panel and remote and nothing. Tried multiple Verbatim DVD-R's as well.

My process right now: Insert blank disk, select recording mode, and watch as nothing happens when I press REC.

Maybe there's something I have to program in the menu? I really hope I've missed something and I don't have to buy another JVC DVD recorder.
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  #2  
04-12-2015, 05:28 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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These might seem like dumb questions, but....

You mention that you followed instructions to a T. Whose instructions are you following?

Did you tell the JVC recorder what line input you are recording from?

I wouldn't use a JVC DVD recorder to transfer VHS tapes to DVD unless the tapes or a permanent lossless archive were of no particular value, so I'm not familiar with the machine, but...what is FR155 recording mode?

Perhaps you forgot to mention a step in the procedure you quoted, and maybe the next question is kinda dumb and has obvious answers, but...
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Originally Posted by TheCatacomb View Post
My process right now: Insert blank disk, select recording mode, and watch as nothing happens when I press REC.
Did you start playing the tape? Can you see the tape playing in your monitor or TV?
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  #3  
04-12-2015, 06:15 AM
TheCatacomb TheCatacomb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
These might seem like dumb questions, but....

You mention that you followed instructions to a T. Whose instructions are you following?
The numerous posts on this forum about the best workflow for capturing VHS to DVD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
Did you tell the JVC recorder what line input you are recording from?
Yes, I selected L1 as the channel, and I can see the tape playing.

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Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
what is FR155 recording mode?
JVC FR mode DVD recorder - Help, lordsmurf!
JVC DR-M100S Resolution and Bitrate Reference Sheet
Advice for converting VHS-C tapes, Panasonic vs. JVC VCRs?

As for the exact recording procedure I'm following; I'm following the "Basic Recording" from this manual- http://resources.jvc.com/Resources/0...T1013-001B.pdf Everything works until Step 4, and I can't find anything online about people having a similar issue... So hopefully I've forgotten to do something and I don't have a dead recorder...
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  #4  
04-12-2015, 07:29 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Ok, I did a bit of reading in the manuals and threads you referenced. I'll have to leave it to the JVC recorder gurus to unravel your settings, as I see no benefit to capturing fast-action VHS to half-D1 progressive at relatively lower CBR bitrates. Fast action video or video with a lot of motion doesn't work so well with progressive DVD input (depending on the player and TV), as DVD is almost always interlaced or telecined (and so is 1920x1080 HD at 29.97 fps NTSC or 25 fps PAL). But that seems to be a matter of choice and much debate nowadays.

You say you're trying to record to DVD-R (you're correct, Verbatim would be the right choice), but if you're actually using DVD-RW you'd have to format an RW disc before recording. Since you don't seem to be getting an error message if using unformatted VD-RW, you're likely using DVD-R. Hopefully you got Verbatim "AZO" discs and not the low-quality Life Series.

You also mentioned elsewhere that you intend to do some post-processing, denoising, etc. Lossy formats like DVD aren't designed for modification beyond simple cut and join with smart-rendering MPEG editors. More complex work can be done if the DVD is decoded to lossless media. But it's not easy and it means re-encoding again at the end of the process.

I reviewed everything in the recorder's manual. The only weird thing I can find there is that "FR" modes seem to be designed for timer recording. I also noted from the bitrate spec sheet that this recorder uses CBR and progressive frames at XP setting, which I find a bit odd for DVD action video. Seems like a waste of bitrate or slower-action segments. But I'll leave that up to JVC experts. I have capped rather pristine retail VHS tapes directly to DVD using Panasonic LSI and Toshiba RD-XS recorders (and now wish I had not done it that way because they're a bitch to clean up afterwards, but the tapes were discarded). But I suppose you have to work with the gear and methods you have available.

Anyone with suggestions ??? Unless the JVC machine has a problem I don't see why it shouldn't be recording, except for the reference to FR rates being designed for timer-based recording. But I could be reading the manual the wrong way on that score.
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  #5  
04-12-2015, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCatacomb View Post
My process right now: Insert blank disk, select recording mode, and watch as nothing happens when I press REC.
Does it see the disc? Does it show X minutes available to record?

Quote:
Maybe there's something I have to program in the menu? I really hope I've missed something and I don't have to buy another JVC DVD recorder.
I think something is being missed as well. Not having LOADING is good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
I wouldn't use a JVC DVD recorder to transfer VHS tapes to DVD unless the tapes or a permanent lossless archive were of no particular value, so I'm not familiar with the machine, but...what is FR155 recording mode?
This is an excellent workflow for tape to DVD. This is for content that does not need restoring, and does not need fancy editing. I like to use the JVC to record content, either off-air or off high quality tapes (often my S-VHS and S-VHS-ET tapes), and then decompile in DVD decrypter. Edit in Womble, then author with nice menus in Ulead DVD Workshop 2. I've done this for the past 11 years.

FR155 is a Half D1 high bitrate setting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCatacomb View Post
The numerous posts on this forum about the best workflow for capturing VHS to DVD.
Correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
Ok, I did a bit of reading in the manuals and threads you referenced. I'll have to leave it to the JVC recorder gurus to unravel your settings, as I see no benefit to capturing fast-action VHS to half-D1 progressive at relatively lower CBR bitrates. Fast action video or video with a lot of motion doesn't work so well with progressive DVD input (depending on the player and TV), as DVD is almost always interlaced or telecined (and so is 1920x1080 HD at 29.97 fps NTSC or 25 fps PAL). But that seems to be a matter of choice and much debate nowadays.
JVC uses true 1-pass VBR, not CBR or CVBR. This is yet another reason that this is an excellent recorder.

I would not worry about the progressive vs. interlaced source. The hardware deals with this. As long as you know that DVD is not HD, and is interlaced at 29.97 (or 25fps), we're all good.

Quote:
You say you're trying to record to DVD-R (you're correct, Verbatim would be the right choice), but if you're actually using DVD-RW you'd have to format an RW disc before recording. Since you don't seem to be getting an error message if using unformatted VD-RW, you're likely using DVD-R. Hopefully you got Verbatim "AZO" discs and not the low-quality Life Series.
^ This.

Quote:
You also mentioned elsewhere that you intend to do some post-processing, denoising, etc. Lossy formats like DVD aren't designed for modification beyond simple cut and join with smart-rendering MPEG editors. More complex work can be done if the DVD is decoded to lossless media. But it's not easy and it means re-encoding again at the end of the process.
^ This.

You can restore from MPEG-2, but it's harder to do. In almost all cases, you introduce macroblock artifacts, which only makes denoising harder. Noisy video needs more bitrate than the maximum available on DVD (~10mbps). Even Blu-ray spec SD MPEG-2, at almost 1.5 times the max (15mbps), is sometimes not enough. By the time you hit 25-50, it's fine, and not much different than a lossless format (or DV if it was 4:2:0).

Quote:
The only weird thing I can find there is that "FR" modes seem to be designed for timer recording.
No. If that's what you saw in the manual, then the manual is wrong. (And that's not uncommon.)

Quote:
I also noted from the bitrate spec sheet that this recorder uses CBR and progressive frames at XP setting, which I find a bit odd for DVD action video.
No. That's wrong too. DVD recorders are interlaced, period. And XP is not CBR. It's lessy spiky than other modes, being 8mbps average, but it's still not a flat bitrate.

Quote:
I have capped rather pristine retail VHS tapes directly to DVD using Panasonic LSI and Toshiba RD-XS recorders (and now wish I had not done it that way because they're a bitch to clean up afterwards, but the tapes were discarded). But I suppose you have to work with the gear and methods you have available.
We all do that. I learned the hard way to never throw away tapes. Thankfully, those tapes were of cartoons that have since been released to DVD. (Thank you Warner Archives! I never thought it would happen.) Some of my homemade DVDs now rest in the landfill with the original tapes.

The Toshiba is not bad, but does nothing for chroma noise.
The Panasonic has all sorts of errors -- posterization (banding), luma tints, starves bitrate, etc.

It may be the discs, as per sanlyn's post.

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  #6  
04-12-2015, 01:22 PM
TheCatacomb TheCatacomb is offline
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Guys, it turned out to be a simple fix. I merely switched the cables from the dvd recorder's L1 back panel to the R1 front panel. Don't know why L1 doesn't work, but I'm not complaining. Thanks for taking the time to reply to my problem.

BTW, on the post-processing note, I'm using the DVD recorder workflow so I won't have to do any post-processing. I just can't get a good feel for color correction. I know what avisynth/virtual dub filters for the other things, but when it comes to color adjustment, I really have no idea what I'm doing. For ex., in ColorMill, I just end up moving sliders and hoping to get lucky. I don't know which sliders I should be moving, or which to leave alone, and I haven't found any tutorials on the subject. I'm also paranoid that I'll end up with a color balance completely different from what the original film was.

tldnr: I fixed the no recording issue by switching everything from L1 to R1 input. And I'm using this particular workflow because I have no idea how to properly do color correction.

Last edited by TheCatacomb; 04-12-2015 at 01:34 PM.
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  #7  
04-12-2015, 01:40 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Good, glad you have it working. I never would have guessed LI -> R1 from reading the manual.

Yeah, color correction is another one of those acquired skills -- and so, by the way, is denoising. Agreed, somehow video forums are of little use when it comes to tutoring color correction . The best info sources are photo tutorials like those in Photoshop, Premiere Pro, and AfterEffects. ColorMill itself is a useful filter -- however, you do have to know the difference between the 3 colors RGB and how to work the 3 secondaries from them (Yellow=R+G, Cyan=G+B, Magenta=B+R), and stuff like what Gamma really does, and what range DARK, MIDDLE, and LIGHT involve (approximately RGB 0-64, RGB 64-192, RGB 192-355 respectively....or somewhere in that neighborhood, depending on how a filter is programmed). The same website tutorials that discuss color problems with digital cameras are useful, since digital photos and digital video images use the same color principles.

Good luck, hope the rest goes well.
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04-12-2015, 03:59 PM
TheCatacomb TheCatacomb is offline
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Ok, so it's not working again. Tried to record a second movie and it's the same problem as before. Tried switching to L1 and then R1 once again but nothing. I'm beginning to think this is a defective unit.

BTW, I am using Verbatim AZO disks.
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  #9  
04-12-2015, 05:51 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Pobably correct, the unit seems defective to me. Why JVC recorders? Panasonic and Toshiba made excellent machines. I've had my Toshiba RD-XS34 (two of them) for 12 years, and both have made over 2000 recordings and still going strong. The RD-XS series is a bit pricey, even used. Just as good but not as fancy were the R-D3, 4, and 5. AFter that (about 2006), no one made DVD recorders as well.

The idea behind that particular JVC was the LSI encoder and noise reduction. Toshiba's used a different encoder, but NR wasn't quite as smooth as the LSI chips in the Panasonic DMR-ES10, ES15, or ES20. After that, Panasonic used its own chip that wasn't as accomplished. Plenty of working Panasonics of that vintage are still around. I recorded several VHS retail tapes to my old ES20 and they look pretty nice. During the past year I had to replace the aging ES20 with an ES10 and an ES15 as line-level and frame sync tbc's used as pass-thru to ATI capture cards.
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  #10  
04-12-2015, 06:46 PM
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Panasonic made horrible machines. The luma, IRE and gamma was always off. The bitrate settings were asinine (720x480 @ any bitrate). The ES10 (and a few others) were only good for passthrough. Even then, there were quality issues (posterization aka banding) that made it a poor choice for non-restoration needs.

Toshiba was good, as was RCA (Zoran models), but not for most VHS. It did nothing for chroma or grain, which all tapes suffer from.

I started to write this last year: http://www.digitalfaq.com/reviews/be...corders-p1.htm

... but that was before some more of my health setback at the time. I've still not finished it.

After 2006, all you really had was Philips/Magnavox HDD HDTV/ATSC DVD recorders. But again, it did nothing for chroma. It was only good for off-air recordings.

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04-12-2015, 07:02 PM
TheCatacomb TheCatacomb is offline
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Okay, so I don't know how many times I've pressed record and switched back and forth between L1 and R1...

I'll try it again some other day, but if it still doesn't work, I'm throwing in the towel. There isn't any online documentation on this issue, so getting it fixed seems like wishful thinking. I guess the one time I did get it to record was akin to winning at the roulette tables.

I'm down to two options: roll the dice on another JVC Dvd Recorder or just pay someone to transfer these tapes for me. The second option really hurts since I already spent so much time/money getting all the right equipment. Ugh, why must I collect obscure foreign films?

Last edited by TheCatacomb; 04-12-2015 at 07:15 PM.
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  #12  
04-13-2015, 04:47 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Actually, recording VHS directly to DVD, even at high bitrates, isn't an ideal solution. Quick-n-Easy, yeah, but also known as Quick-n-Dirty. Even with a good VCR, the DVD will never look as clean as the actual output of the VCR (which isn't saying all that much) and will usually look worse with typical consumer DVD recorders. One way around it is to have a service capture the tapes to losslessly compressed format (which would run about 25GB/hour for VHS), and you can do the edits and encoding to suit yourself, using generally better-or-as-good encoders than you'll find in consumer DVD-R's. Gotta be careful of some of these services, though, as they proudly proclaim how they capture to "wonderful DV-AVI", which is a dead giveaway that you're in for trouble.

Or you can try another JVC. They weren't famous for durability. But no brand or model lasted forever. The next alternative is to get a USB ATI or ATI clone and capture to MPEG2 or lossless media. Remember if you want to edit that the film-based videos you mentioned are hard-telecined rather than simple-interlace. Any way you look at it, you'd need a smart-rendering editor for any kind of cut or join attempt if it's required. There are good and affordable DVD authoring apps around, some of which are free.
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04-13-2015, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCatacomb View Post
I'm down to two options: roll the dice on another JVC Dvd Recorder or just pay someone to transfer these tapes for me. Does Digitalfaq transfer OOP VHS as well? I'd really like to get good copies of these movies since they're unavailable on DVD.
PM me or Contact Us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
Actually, recording VHS directly to DVD, even at high bitrates, isn't an ideal solution.
Again, it's an excellent workflow. How well it works depends on the sources. It can be perfectly, if the tapes are hardware are ideal.

Quote:
Even with a good VCR, the DVD will never look as clean as the actual output of the VCR (which isn't saying all that much) and will usually look worse with typical consumer DVD recorders.
That's not true. You have to consider things like chroma NR. The DVD can be better than the tape, and should be. That's always my goal, and has been for the past 15 years.

Quote:
One way around it is to have a service capture the tapes to losslessly compressed format (which would run about 25GB/hour for VHS), and you can do the edits and encoding to suit yourself, using generally better-or-as-good encoders than you'll find in consumer DVD-R's.
For some sources and projects, that is what you need.

Quote:
Gotta be careful of some of these services, though, as they proudly proclaim how they capture to "wonderful DV-AVI", which is a dead giveaway that you're in for trouble.
Some hack services are now delivering deinterlaced H.264 files. Yuck!

Quote:
Or you can try another JVC. They weren't famous for durability. But no brand or model lasted forever.
It's usually just the caps. Fix that, and it's fine again.

Quote:
The next alternative is to get a USB ATI or ATI clone and capture to MPEG2 or lossless media.
But can also capture direct to MPEG. You can get Blu-ray specs, but no chroma NR. So only use if for tapes not needing restoration, and when the S-VHS VCR TBC can remove most/all of the chroma noise without needing extra filtering (software, or LSI chipsets).

Quote:
Remember if you want to edit that the film-based videos you mentioned are hard-telecined rather than simple-interlace.
When the source is VHS, just treat it like any of interlaced source, when going to DVD. Some of the things that "anime fans" do is ridiculous. They just butcher it more, while trying to "fix" what isn't broken. That's where a lot of the telecine editing workflows came from, in the early 2000s.

Quote:
Any way you look at it, you'd need a smart-rendering editor for any kind of cut or join attempt if it's required. There are good and affordable DVD authoring apps around, some of which are free.
AVI = VirtualDub
MPEG = Womble, VideoReDo, TMPGEnc Smart Renderer

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  #14  
04-14-2015, 11:50 PM
TheCatacomb TheCatacomb is offline
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Success! Simply pressing record didn't work, but pressing record and play simultaneously did the trick. I went from being in the pits to cloud nine. IT WAS ALL WORTH IT!

So correct me if I'm wrong: XP and FR155-185 are the only recommended modes, therefore FR155 is a no-brainer for movies that run from 1:15:00 to 1:45:00?

I'm debating whether to just record two parts in XP and then join in Womble. As long as the quality's noticeably better, disk size isn't an issue. Also, when recording XP, should I go with PCM or DTS audio?

Last edited by TheCatacomb; 04-15-2015 at 12:14 AM.
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