Panasonic ES10 has no TBC video options?
Hi there,
I have a panasonic DMR-EG10EG-S (europe version) It looks like the luma signal is too high. I tried all combinations of in&outputs. In the manual (US version) the following options ara avail: - Video Black Level Control but at my es10 I only have - comb filter on/off - still mode Question: How do I reduce videolevel? ( p.s. Is it possible to upgrade by firmware?) best regards Oskar By the way, this is a very nice forum, good info, nice helpfull members. |
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Hi all,
The es10 problem is that what ever I do, the output videolevel is too high (tested on the waveform/vectorscope) and already destroy the signal. setup/picture: comb filter on/off picture: av-in NR = off what can I do? My digitize routing is something different: - all compostite/yc sources (umatic/video8/betamax/(s)vhs) did go through my panasonic ag7750 with tbc and hardware filters/correctors but the 7750 is dead, so I use my es10 now, rgb component out - es10 component out to sony uvw1800 betasp rgb compoment in - sony uvw1800 component yuv out to sony dvw A500p digibeta component yuv in - digibeta sdi out to decklink extreme capure card computer SDI in. Any ideas for better results? best regards, Oskar |
This may be a silly question, but what happens if you simply remove the es-10 from the chain? The uvw1800 and possibly the dvwA500 have built-in TBCs.
(I don't want to hijack the thread here, but I'm a bit interested in your setup as I've attempted to use the TBC in a PVW-2800 betacamsp deck we've got here for passthrough, but I haven't gotten it to work properly without a rolling picture yet.) |
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Seems the uvw1800's TBC is enabled on passthrough yes. source It may not be as strong at filtering stuff as the ES10 though.
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the es10 is doing something good. It looks like it's smoothening the signal a bit and i see less of the dropouts of the composite signals.
The sony uvw has no tbc, and is just a converter from the es10 component rgb output to the component yuv for the digibeta input. best regards, Oskar |
Menus are different for North American, European, and Japanese editions of the ES10. In The U.S., the input/output settings are accessed from the remote control by clicking the "Setup"button. On other models you have click "Function", then "to others", then"Setup".
For PAL or NTSC, input="lighter", output="darker". In VirtualDub capture you also have proc amp settings. "Brightness" controls black levels, "Contrast" controls brights. What your "ES10" is doing is beyond me because your model number shows up nowhere and the Eurpean menus are different from U.S./Canada. I've seen and used both units and the input/output settings always worked normally. |
hey Sanlyn,
Yes I know about the different menu options, too bad that I don't have the right options, or are there hidden menus? My opinion about virtual dub is that the videofile is already digitized, and I think that you have a better chance to correct the analogue signal before digitized. The other thing about virtual dub is that it is windows only, I capture on a mac as quicktime prores. Even vdub has no loader for qt prores, or am I wrong? Is there something like virtual dub on osx? best regards, Oskar, Amsterdam |
Frankly I've never heard of a model DMR-EG10EG-S or similar designations. PAl and NSC models of the ES10/15 sseries are "DMER-ES10" and "DMR-ES15". They sometimes have a "k" or "s" suffix indicating chassis color. The remotes don't look like the one you're using; the ES10/15 remote has a "setup" button on the lower right that accesses the required settings. If you look at your remote you won't find that button labeled "Setup".
Sorry, didn't know you were limited to a Mac. There is no lossless capture for Mac OS. Some people run Windows in various Virtual machine setups, but a lot of the tonnage of video software available for Windows won't run in virtual machine setups. Mac capture is DV and QuickTime, or other lossy codecs. The nearest thi9ng to lossless capture with Mac is the ProRes codec. Readers more familiar with the Mac OS will have to advise. |
panasonic es10 pics
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Hi there,
these pic are from my es10 best regards, Oskar ps. quicktime prores422 and prores422HQ are near lossless, and one of the main industry standards in video postproduction. |
ES10EG is Europe.
I've not tried MagicYUV (lossless for Windows, Mac and Linux) as a capture codec yet. But it's somewhat moot, because there's really no way to install non-DV, non-NLE type capture cards on Mac (and BM is more NLE than not). |
As far as I know blackmagic ,aja and matrox are the only video capture cards with sdi, for mac and pc. To digitize video it's also nice to have a rs422 controller to control the vcr and speedup the overall process, especially for batch capture. unfortunately only pro machines have this rs422 option. But I guess many of the forum members don't have pro vcr's and sdi capture cards and don't digitise in lossless or uncompressed quality like QTprores or dpx sequences, and that's ok. But the pro industry demands high quality digitized videofiles for broadcast use or archieving with the option to use the videofiles for future usage. Specialized software for video restoration is DigitalVision Phoenix, Pixelfarm clean or MTI nova.
BUT, what I like about this forum is that it's for everyone who wants to digitize videotapes, all levels. and I hope that everybody can help each other. For me right now, I'm concerned about how to digitize the old vhs/svhs/video8/betamax/umatic tapes the best way. ps about the es10, any ideas about getting the tbc options? (flashing firmware?) best regards, Oskar |
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We already know that Blackmagic was never intended for VHS and that it drops frames left and right. Many complaints about it. Amateurs and pros capture SD analog video to lossless (100%lossless, not partially or "mostly" lossless) using huffyuv, Lagarith and/or UT Video, sometimes MagicUV (which is optimized for HD unfortunately and distorts BFF video such as consumer DV source). We still can't locate pro software that can do what Avisynth can do. There's more to VHS restoration than cut and join, as you know. It would be interesting for a pro to demo what DigitalVision Phoenix can do with VHS or Hi8 in a system that they could design for us. But in all these years we've had no submissions or suggestions AFAIK. Forums like digitalfaq. videohelp,etc., don't usually go for automated playback or processing, it's more of a manual, hands-on culture, sometimes frame-by-frame. Of course most users never approach either level. Most are working with DVD/VHS combo machines and spending big money for Adobe "Pro"so they can use it like a $50 budget editor. You'd be surprised how difficult it is to convince those users that there are better methods. |
Hi Sanlyn,
Thanks for your reply. I think that I understand what you mean about restoration of analogue consumer videotapes. Umatic would be an added exception because that "was" a broadcast level, once. But it's also composite signal. Anyway, problems with analogue comsumer videotapes could be: - luma and color bleeding - drop outs - lots of unwanted noise - sync problems and tearing - scanline failures - ghosting effects Am I right? So you think that virtualdub with avisynth have better options to solve these analogue problems? If YES, I really have to take a look at these tools, because some of my tapes have these issues. And some tapes are so important for my clients, that more time=money is not that important. By the way, I think after solving this kind of problems it's very important to colorgrade the digitized material. Here you need good grading software like resolve or the tools from the pro restoration software I mentioned before. (I think most digital problems from dv/dvcam/ect. can be solved by software like phoenix and pfclean most of the time.) And BM and AJA only work well if you use a good TBC. And "hand-by-hand, or frame by frame is simply too expensive for restoration, I think as well. Let me know what you think. Best regards, Oskar |
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For the advanced users and pros alike, one advantage of Avisynth and VirtualDub is that they're free and don't require expensive high-powered PC's. This isn't to disparage the abilities of some very good industrial-strength high-end products. Previously posted before/after comparisons of 3 consecutive "bad frames" from damaged tape capture repaired with Avisynth, and color fixed with Avisynth and Virtualdub. Frames 266 and 267, below, had serious dropout problems. The third frame (268) was recovering from the bad tape portion but had no color. Somewhat complicated becauase the baby and camera weren't exactly motionless: Frame 266 before (top) and after (below): http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/atta...g-noise-fixjpg http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/atta...ripsp2_rdmcjpg Frame 267 before (top) and after (below): http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/atta...-median-nv1jpg http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/atta...ripsp2_rdmcjpg Frame 268 before (top) and after (below): http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/atta...-median-nv1jpg http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/atta...ripsp2_rdmcjpg Often, however, we get captures from tapes so badly damaged or poorly played that repair isn't possible. |
I'm gonna have nightmares about your list of analogue videotape problems ;)
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That wasn't from one of my own tapes, thank goodness. I have had some smaller but still ugly dropouts, though.
Another near disaster: I had a retail tape that played with three completely blown out frames in a row, solid snowy static from corner to corner. The same tape in another VCR model, and 4 years older, played perfectly. Good idea to have more than one VCR around. |
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