Philips TurboDrive mechanism reliability on DVHS VCR?
Hello everyone!
I've been looking at the forum for a while now and it's given me plenty of helpful tips in the past. This is my first time posting. I'm looking into getting a Philips VR20D D-VHS deck for really cheap compared to ebay prices (I'm getting it from a local listing website in my country so I don't think the low price has got anything to do with condition) for about 135GBP. The VCR is in great condition, barely any scuffs and scratches and it comes with the original remote control. The only thing I'm worried about is reliability, I've read in quite a few places that you should stay away from Philips decks with TurboDrive but no one ever specifies why. This is a copy of the JVC HM-DR10000 by the way with the only exterior difference being that a window has been added so that you can see the display with the front closed and obviously the TurboDrive mechanism which isn't present in the JVC. Basically, I'm wondering if the claims that you should stay away from TurboDrive are justified or not, because I'm looking for a nice, feature packed workhorse VCR and this may be it. Also, I currently have a Philips VR969 with the same TurboDrive mechanism which has developped some odd noises in the past few months so that made me worried about the mechanism. On the other hand, I also have another TurboDrive Philips VR700 which works perfectly. I'm hoping I'll receive a reply soon because I'm moving forward with the purchase in 2-3 days anyways since I really like this VCR and I'm ready to take a risk on it. Thanks in advance BTW here's a link to the listing (Bulgarian website, sorry) : https://bazar.bg/obiava-20167557/phi...video-recorder |
If its a JVC clone, its going to have the same tape transport as the JVC deck.
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I thought about that as well, but then why would Philips badge it as a TurboDrive which is not present on a JVC deck. Also, even if it has the same mechanism as the JVC, do you happen to know why people mostly recommend that you stay away from TurboDrive?
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Philips appears to have used the branding for many years. A reputation can follow a name. I am not familiar with Philips decks, but maybe the SuperDrive decks were sourced from JVC to begin with? It was very common to re-badge someone else's VCR in the later years of the format (like how every VCR-DVD combo made the last 10 years is just a re-badged Funai).
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A word of caution: as has been well documented elsewhere...
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So, bear this in mind if "mechanical reliability" is your main concern. |
My JVC HR-S7500U has the same tape chewing problem (its extra slack on the take up reel after a fast-forward), so I'm not particularly surprised.
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I don't have a favorable opinion of any D-VHS deck. Those should be a last choice on the recommended VCR lists. They've aged badly, and were attuned to SP usage (weak LP and SLP/EP playback). Also suffers same issues as S-VHS for VHS-C.
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lordsmurf,
Thanks for the reply. Even I have been here long rnough to see your stance against D-VHS and I fully agree with you. The problem is that I'm looking for a high-end S-VHS deck (I wasn't going to be using the digital part on the Philips) but those are rare to come buy without having to get them shipped from a few countries away which worries me considering their mechanical nature. If you're able to make an assessement, I did also see a Panasonic NV-HS880 S-VHS deck (looks extremely flashy) and my only problem with that is the lack of S-VIDEO on the back because I would like for all cables to be hidden. edit: Holy cow that reply looks messed up. Sorry, I'm writing from my phone. |
Yes, sometimes importing can be difficult. I understand. Either bad local post offices, or unwilling/xenophobic shippers. (And that last one is a main reason that I've always been open to shipping gear worldwide. And why I pack it so well, to withstand the trip. The first reason can also sometimes be avoided by using 3rd-party couriers, but it comes at a price.)
The bigger issue for the HS880 is lack of TBC. That alone disqualifies it for me. I'd only pick of the D-VHS if cheap. But I'd rather simply keep looking for a better deck. |
I hadn't really dug up any details about the Panasonic, if I knew about the lack of TBC I wouldn't even have bothered to mention it here. Anyways, thanks for the reply, I'll be on the lookout for better decks locally and I'll update you here if I have more questions .If I don't end up finding anything, I might consider shipping from other countries in Europe.
Thanks for the help everyone! Also as a "senior" on this forum, if you have any recommendations for S-VHS decks that are easy to find online, I would appreciate them. If you've already talked about it on another thread I'd also appreciate a link. edit: Thanks to whoever is compressing all of my posts into one, just noticed the "Edit" button on the bottom. |
What's your budget?
Locating some in UK and Germany on eBay (especially Germany), tends to be easier than even the USA for good S-VHS decks. And PAL, of course. Most are not trashed (unlike USA eBay), and are often well maintained. But the main problem is most eBay sellers are either lazy or xenophobes. I'm often shocked by the number of "local pickup only" auctions in those countries. It's like they don't really want to sell them! |
I would say that at most, my budget would be 150gbp. I have also noticed the local pickup only or the "No shipping outside of the UK" labels on some of these ads and it's quite annoying.
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You can ask if they'll ship to your location. But just know that some of the UK eBay sellers are downright rude. The German ones just ignore you. Thankfully, I have friends to proxy for me.
That said, 150 GBP ($195 USD) is somewhat low, hard to get a reliable deck for that price. Good luck, keep hunting. :) |
Shipping shouldn't be an issue as I'm using a third party company which is based in the UK and ships to my location. Thanks for the reply, I'll update you if I find anything interesting
-- merged -- Ignore the last post, the final deck I have to show you for today (promise ;) ) is the Panasonic NV-HS950. What do you think about that one? (Not adding this to my latest post because I'm not sure if you have a way of getting updated when I do edits. This way you'll hopefully notice the number of replies has gone up and see this quicker. Sorry if that's against some rule :( ) |
Philips VR969 making odd noises is usually a split drive shaft. It sits on the right hand side of the deck and shifts the modes but its nylon on a metal spindle and the nylon cracks so the shaft slips inside and the cracked cog going around plus the slipping makes some horrible noises. The gear is quite expensive so what I do is to take the cog off the end, wrap tightly with fine wire and then glue. Better than new!
Panasonic HS950 is very good. Probably my favourite Panny but K deck can start slipping (needs drive coupler) plus some have seen heavy use timeshifting so lower and upper drum worn plus dim display. HS880 is Z deck. Avoid that. Its just too cheap inside with picture quality behind the older decks. All components are on one PCB - including the PSU which is a sure sign of cheap and nasty. Older decks used a separate and shielded PSU - keep it away from the sensitive picture process areas. |
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I saw one of your older threads and your repair tutorial for K decks. If mine has such problems will I be able to follow this tutorial because mine will be a PAL one and in the old thread you said PAL and NTSC mechanisms are different. Edit: NVM just got to the part where you explain that it's a PAL deck. Also I understand certain types of grease are to be avoided. You talk about it in the video but could you maybe put some links to grease online just as samples because I'm still unsure which ones to get. It would be very helpful as I plan to do a round of maintenance before I start using the unit. Quote:
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Do you know where I could find a drum. And just to be clear, I don't have the unit yet, I haven't even paid for it but I'm getting obsessed with making it perfect once it arrives so all of these faults may not even be present in mine. |
Upper and lower drum are long discontinued. I tried to get spares in 2007 but out of stock even then, plus the price was over £200 + VAT. No chance now, just make sure to buy a low use example because as heads wear you get less self-cleaning, more visible dropouts etc, even if the actual picture 'looks' the same on screen. I'm a stickler for 'as new' heads on these expensive decks. Older standard VHS like F65 and J35 have common heads, available quite easily for £20 or less.
Grease originally used is Molybdenum for drive gears and pinch roller slide and any soft synthetic grease for other areas. No too much - just a smear. More important is to get all the old grease out. http://rover.ebay.co.uk/rover/1/711-...t/332755444272 http://rover.ebay.co.uk/rover/1/711-...t/121416162971 Edit to say a good way of determining use / wear is to ask questions about how and where it was used and to look at the two raised 'tape guides' on the tape flap. If a machine has been used quite a bit you see the bottom end of this weara to black plastic. Takes a seasoned eye but it shows at least that it has done many load/unload cycles. |
Thanks for the links, even though they are discontinued, do you not think I could find some new old stock or used ones somewhere (either ebay or sites like cdlens). Also I'm still curious about whether you need to do realignment of some sort when swapping drums?
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CD lens, Donberg, Charles Hyde, eBay, SeMe, East London Electrical - I tried them all and no stock at all. But there may be one or two out there but as they were so expensive it is unlikely that a shop has one kicking about, but if you find one well done! May be somewhere like a duplicating centre that used HS950's have some. Remember its 20 years since they discontinued the deck - and many places have closed or re-located in that time with throw outs each move.
Heads are 'plug and play' you just remove the anti-static brush and pull up on the head. The whole upper drum comes off and new head drops onto the spindle. Simplicity itself. The HD660 uses the same head design (not the same head) an no alignment needed. Super fast, no soldering and ready to go. Please see photo showing HS950 loading wear (arrowed) |
Thanks a lot for all of the helpful information and time spent helping me on this tread Quasipal, I should be getting the deck in the next 2-3 days. I'll update you about it's condition when I get it.
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Hello everyone, still haven't gotten the deck but in the anticipation I've been reading the user manual and something caught my eye. This question is for anyone that actually owns one of these decks, on page 22 or 23 the manual states that you have to set the tape length to learn the remaining time. Does this VCR not have auto tape length detection? Thanks
-- updated -- Hi again, depressing day for me, I guess. I had sent the message to the guy on the 4th and today he finally replied that he had just shipped it yesterday, and all of this could have been averted if the phone number he had left was even valid! That's a real let down, I was planning all of my maintenance and I was so excited about getting a new VCR and making it perfect. Guess I'll just have to repair my VR969 and stick with it until I can find a replacement. Speaking of that, I've been looking in the mechanism and I can't find which shaft Quasipal was talking about. There's actually at least two metal shafts on which the cogs appear to be split. I'm gonna add photos to show you and hopefully someone can give me advice on what to do next. Also, since I've been doing just fine without TBC on my 969, would anyone say that a Panasonic NV-HS900 is better (for arround 40GBP). Thanks Attachment 8966 Attachment 8967 Attachment 8968 Attachment 8969 |
The accused gear are these:
http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/imag...assettek-1.jpg Exactly what said by Quasipal in post #16. May be only one or both broken. This is a guide (in German) for the same problem. http://www.berlin-repariert.de/phili...mt-nicht-raus/ |
Thank you! My german is quite rusty but I'll try to read it.
Edit: On mine, both appear fine, could it be the small crack that's visible on the last photo I posted? Also I forgot to mention that it started making a grinding noise when winding (but not rewinding), is that also because of the driveshaft? |
Philips Turbodrive is really nice and simple but gears can split or cogs jump a tooth. So what I did was to take all the gears off for checking and cleaning then replace them in correct sequence using a manual I found online. I'd never even seen such a mechanism before but with a little care has it working like new. It was badly out of alignment with some parts smashed from forcing a tape but after aligning all the dots it was happy again.
Any cracks in cogs mean it is likely slipping under load so at least check for that. Sometimes cracks are hard too see if they are full of grease. Its the grease that makes them crack as it hardens the nylon. |
Thanks Quasipal, what about the Panny HS900?
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The broken shafts fault is that videocassette is not laded or not ejected (locked inside VCR), because the shafts drive the lift assy (other than for threading the tape). The grinding noise when winding (but in other case can happen also in rewinding) is due to the brake gears: the white round, placed under the two reel table (take-up and supply). Simply need grease in their housing, but to reach, firs remove the two reel table and the two main brake. Sorry if my English is not good, but hope is enough clear. |
This is another noise from the one I mentioned in post #1, the machine makes three different noises,
The first one happens if the machine is playing the cassette and I hit the rewind button to do a reverse image search. The search starts but then 2-3 seconds later I hear a plasticky knock, like if two pieces of plastic hit each other. The other noise that happens is the grinding while winding the tape, I can only hear it when I'm winding the tape forward at speed, not when I'm doing a slow forward image search. The third one is kind of a rubbery noise, hard to describe (I'll try recording the noises when I reassemble the machine so you guys have a clearer picture of what's happening), it happens after I'm done with a reverse or forward image search and I hit play. Also I was wondering if I need to lubricate the mechanism before reassembly as it's been sitting outside of the VCR and on my work surface for probably 20 hours. |
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