Is my VCR bad? Audio pitch shift issues?

[brohrig]

I've learned a lot from this forum as I attempt to tackle digitizing all of my family's home movies. Thank you.

Unfortunately, I've had nothing but trouble with VCRs. Started with a piece of junk ProScan that barely played anything. Then, I paid way too much for a brand new JVC HR-A591U on FB Marketplace, got through about 16 tapes, and it died with a tape inside. No power. Had to destroy it to extract my tape.

Then, I bought a used JVC HR-S5000U locally on FB Marketplace. Good video quality, but weird audio pitch distortion that's especially evident when musical notes play. That's what I'm asking about today.

Attached is a sample comparing the good audio from my A591U (RIP) to the distorted audio from my S5000U.

What's the deal here? I've tried multiple USB audio devices so I can confidently isolate the issue back to the VCR. I also know it's not the VHS tape, since I was able to get a good recording with my now-dead A591U. Is the S5000U toast or this a fixable issue?

[lordsmurf]

Realize VCRs are now all 20-30 years old. So if you buy from eBay, Craigslist, Facebook, etc, you're pretty much guaranteed to buy somebody's crap out of their garbage, attic, basement, wherever. Random VCRs, random history, random problems.

JVC HR-A591U is low end.
JVC HR-S5000U is ancient.
Neither are suggested.

Your main issue is the video is dropping frames, as you have zero TBCs in use. The audio is attenuating to attempt to compensate, but it always sounds horrible.

At minimum, all workflows require TBC.

You can attempt to cheap out, and get variable/random results, with
non-TBC S-VHS>
> ES10/15 >
> known quality capture card

But you'll likely still face problems, just not quite as aw ful as your current problems.

More ideal is
recommended JVC S-VHS with line TBC >
> recommended DataVideo/Cypress type frame TBC >
> recommended capture card

That will eliminate 99% of issues, and allow you to focus on quality capturing your precious memories. What I see in that sample looks and sounds like crap. It can be so much better with a quality deck. You don't have to put up with tracking errors, audio distortion, none of that.

[themaster1]

Do you have bad audio on all tapes with the S5000U ?
If yes i'd say AC head issue, it could need a tweak i suppose

If not, i guess something's wrong with the auto tracking, so try manual

[timtape]

The pitch changes because the linear tape speed changes. At the point where the pitch changes there is disturbance at the bottom of the picture.

[latreche34]

Looks like a pinch roller problem or tape tension problem, Either one needs to be diagnosed by a knowledgeable repair person with the right tools, Tape tension can be checked with a special tension cassette meter. Pinch roller can be lifted off and inspected for dents, out of round or uneven wear.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by themaster1

Do you have bad audio on all tapes with the S5000U ?
If yes i'd say AC head issue, it could need a tweak i suppose
If not, i guess something's wrong with the auto tracking, so try manual

Quote:

Originally Posted by timtape

The pitch changes because the linear tape speed changes. At the point where the pitch changes there is disturbance at the bottom of the picture.

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34

Looks like a pinch roller problem or tape tension problem, Either one needs to be diagnosed by a knowledgeable repair person with the right tools, Tape tension can be checked with a special tension cassette meter. Pinch roller can be lifted off and inspected for dents, out of round or uneven wear.

Just to clarify here, for our novice OP:

Correct, the root cause is bad playback, from a bad VCR. That explains the tracking error, some of the audio issues. Several possible reasons it's bad, as per quotes above.

That bad signal results in dropped frames at the capture card, due to lack of TBC in between.

The capture card itself may be known bad, or weak, or tends to trip over itself. For example, this is why the Hauppauge Live2 is not suggested. Junk cards like Easycaps/clones, ClearClicks, or Elgatos are awful, and should be avoided.

Dropped frames are observed, and both audio speedup and slowdown are what happens when the capture card is instructed to attentuate to compensate (and that's a typical settings, sometimes not adjustable, ie OBS or AmaRecTV, others).

So it's literally the outcome of a bad workflow. It starts with the VCR, then no TBC, possibly capture card, then likely capture software settings (or wrong software entirely).

So the quoted posts may seem to look like disagreements, but it's actually not.

[brohrig]

Thanks for the advice all. I’ve ordered a newer JVC VCR with S-VHS (new in box HR-S3911U) and a Panasonic ES10. Gonna see what kind of results I get as soon as they come in.

Regarding my capture setup, it’s a Canon Optura 30 miniDV camcorder with AV passthrough, connected via FireWire and a couple Apple Thunderbolt adapters to my M1 MacBook Pro. Recording straight into QuickTime which allows for ProRes 422 and linear PCM audio. Files are 704x480, 29.97p and tagged with the correct PAR so that my NLE recognizes the videos as 4:3. It’s honestly working great. In the 16 tapes I’ve already done there are no glitches, dropped frames, or sync issues. The IQ is less than ideal because of the cheap VCRs I’ve been using, but I feel fairly confident in this part of my workflow.

[lordsmurf]

Assuming that 3911 works properly ("new" means nothing, as it's 15-20 years old, it ages in the box used or not), then you'll have yourself a minimal (minimum accepted spec) decent workflow. You may still have a fail rates (some tapes won't cooperate), and that setup isn't transparent (ES10/15 has downsides, not transparent, you lose some quality in addition to some gains). But overall, you may be fine. You've upgraded to recommended specs (even if minimum), that's what matters here.

DV not great, 4:1:1 color loss, but not much choice for Mac.

[brohrig]

Cool. So, if this VCR craps out on me too, I might just spring for something higher-end like a 9600/9800. In that case, would the ES10 still serve a purpose for certain tapes, despite the internal TBC in those VCRs?

[lordsmurf]

I would be hesitant to suggest the 9600/9800 decks now, in the 2020s, due to the often-failed/failing DD. It's not really the DD in general that has failed, as some models seem resilient (though not immune), but specifically those 9600/9800 models. And I hate that, my personal 9800 is in a failed state. It can be revived, but the DD bypass work is not for novices.

In general, you need to not random buy decks, especially not from eBay.

At this time, I'd not worry about a potential needed, but rather see what's available (and in good condition, not just the right model) if/when that time comes.

ES10 is not a TBC. It's a DVD recorder with a strong+crippled line TBC, and a non-TBC frame sync. It's not transparent, and it has side effects that low picture quality. It's best used only when the net effect is better quality, not as some sort of always-on workflow piece.

ES10/15 TBC only function if VCR TBC is off. If VCR TBC on, and not anti-tearing scenario, it should be removed from the chain.

[brohrig]

Good stuff. Last question for now, potentially a dumb one, but in the scenarios where ES10 is utilized — does audio pass through this unit to help keep things in sync, or video only?

[lordsmurf]

The ES10/15 introduce delay, so yes, it has to route audio. Otherwise you get audio offset, and must manually adjust, which is not fun. At least it's static offset, not the same as variable dropped frame offset.