Quantcast AIW in Windows 7? - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
11-06-2019, 03:02 AM
Jasen Jasen is offline
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Hello,
on the AMD website there seems to be Windows 7 drivers for some of the later AIW cards to download.
Like for the AIW 9700 pro for example (if i done the search correct).

https://www.amd.com/en/support/graph...onder-9700-pro

Is it the use of the MMC software for capture that is the "no go" for win 7 and wich only works in XP?
Can i choose to not install/use the MMC software and only use the AIW 9700 pro with the Win 7 drivers and Virtual dub for avi capture?

Regards Jasen
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  #2  
11-08-2019, 10:45 PM
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jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
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The AMD drivers your seeing are generally for the Video Output features (only) not for Video Capture.

Look at the same driver sets for XP on the AMD website, they include a separate driver labeled 'WDM' that has the DirectX video capture driver. That was never ported or updated to support anything beyond XP.

For example there is no 64 bit for Vista WDM driver for any of the 9000 series cards.

It comes down to Vista and Windows 7 essentially beginning to ignore AGP graphics devices, and Also when the part that made the All In Wonders of ATI went out of business during the acquisition by AMD they prematurely ended development of Vista device drivers for former PCI express cards. Great video capture products, but all support and driver development and bug fixes ceased immediately.

The ATI cards that came out for PCI express "did" include some WDM video capture drivers for Vista, even 64 bit Vista.. but they were early cards that got Vista support after a lot of trouble.. and had trouble with motherboard conflicts on the PCI express bus. The device drivers could not be tested for every major motherboard manufacturer and performed poorly in general. (In theory a 'magic' combination of a specific Motherboard, and Windows 7 and a PCI express ATI video capture card could be found.. but no one has reported this mythical beast in public)

The X600 Pro for example, or the X800 XL. You could get the Vista device drivers for Vista and install them under Windows 7, but if there were any conflict with your motherboard onboard devices.. such as the onboard audio chipset.. there was nothing you could do or can do today. It simply would not work.

ATI is long long gone, nearly 15 years ago, and AMD had no interest shortly after acquisition in funding bug fixes for products they acquired.. as ATI labeled products.. it wouldn't damage their reputation if customers couldn't get them to work on Windows 7.. to them they were dead products designed for Windows XP.

I should add that 'after' these AGP and PCIx cards which offered or could do Uncompressed video. The USB variants were the next best options The ATI AIW 2.0N and ATI AIW 600. But after those the later 550 Elite and the 650 and 750 chipsets followed the industry/consumer standard of not offering Uncompressed capture as an option.. everything out of those were compressed video.. which meant some part of the video was thrown away so that the video stream had a lower bit rate.

Its Backwards to the way we think of these today.. back then Uncompressed video was a death sentence for a product.. computers couldn't handle the firehose of data.. CPUs weren't fast enough to software encode. But today computers are fast enough and we seek those old anomalies out. Today the highly praised and valued hardware compression chips are discarded as inferior and not valued as they were back then.

Last edited by jwillis84; 11-08-2019 at 11:01 PM.
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  #3  
11-09-2019, 10:45 AM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwillis84 View Post
Look at the same driver sets for XP on the AMD website, they include a separate driver labeled 'WDM' that has the DirectX video capture driver. That was never ported or updated to support anything beyond XP.

For example there is no 64 bit for Vista WDM driver for any of the 9000 series cards.
The linked page does show Vista WDM drivers for 32- & 64-bit.

Quote:
later 550 Elite and the 650 and 750 chipsets followed the industry/consumer standard of not offering Uncompressed capture as an option.. everything out of those were compressed video
Huh? Those can capture 4:2:2 in VirtualDub. The problems are AGC and with the 750 (USB at least) some really nasty vertical bounce with VHS sources.
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  #4  
11-09-2019, 12:03 PM
lingyi lingyi is offline
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Read this thread for lots of info and drivers for the AIW series ATI All In Wonder Hacks, Drivers, Codecs and MMC

Also note:

"ATI MMC will not work with Windows Vista or Windows 7, according to user tests and comments made in this forum in the past two years. Windows XP is required. Unless a card specifically requires Windows Vista or Windows 7 (which almost none do), you'll get the best capture experience -- with ANY card -- using Windows XP. Put together a second system, based on Windows XP, specifically for capturing video. You can use a KVM to share monitor, mouse, keyboard and speakers with your newer Windows Vista or Win7 computer.

The thread is from 2010 so is it possible that ATI fixed the issue? Maybe. Likely? No. To this day, lordsmurf has stated numerous times that using WinXP is necessary to properly use and get the best out of an AIW.

Hopefully he chime in to this thread.
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  #5  
11-10-2019, 12:21 AM
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jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post
The linked page does show Vista WDM drivers for 32- & 64-bit.
It does, they appear to have been posted for the 9700 Pro in error.

The device driver PCI identifiers start with the PCI 550 Elite card. There is no PCI identifier that matches the PCI identifier for the 9700 PRO in that driver set.

(It would be good to be wrong.. because that might then work with other 9000 AGP cards, but there is not a single match for any 9000 card in that driver set.)

You can force it to install, but the driver should not autodetect that hardware and will warn it is not a matched install.

(I would also expect an AGP identifier rather than a PCI identifier for the 9000 cards, but an AGP could come bridged off an PCI bus slot..and the driver .inf files only menitioned PCI and USB identifiers.. so I was going broad in allowing for some weird driver support architectures..)

Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post
Huh? Those can capture 4:2:2 in VirtualDub. The problems are AGC and with the 750 (USB at least) some really nasty vertical bounce with VHS sources.
That would be interesting news.. I will have to check again.. last I checked they offered a Capture pin that snagged Virtualdub and prevented their use. Its possible the Preview pin could be used for capture.. and that might work "sort of" but the Microsooft posted "purpose" of the Preview pin was to drop frames on purpose to support not dropping frames from the Capture pin.. in addition the Preview pin does not include timing information so frame drops cannot be detected..this sacrifice was suppose to make it faster and less likely to drop frames.. so its a faustian bargain when hardware compression shows up from a device designed for PVR capture.

This is a lot easier to see when creating Graphs in GraphEdit.. which seem to work infinitely faster than Virtualdub.. but was never designed to be a general purpose capture tool.

Its been giving me a new appreciation for the Pinnacle, Pinnacle Systems, PCTV and Hauppauge branded PCTV devices. They do not work super well with Virtualdub.. but they had a Huge number of capture devices and a very long lineage.

Anyway.. the post ATI USB 600.. that is the AMD USB capture devices all had "issues" best avoided.. but manageable for an expert with perhaps a lot of extra equipment.

Last edited by jwillis84; 11-10-2019 at 12:37 AM.
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  #6  
11-10-2019, 02:38 PM
Jasen Jasen is offline
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Thank you all for your replies and especially jwillis84 for the more technical information regarding the drivers. I understand that XP is required after reading other posts about it, i just got a bit curious as there seemed to be win 7 drivers available for download at the AMD website. Thanks for the clarification.
Regards Jasen
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