Quantcast Studio 1 Productions PA-200 works for PAL? - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
11-13-2019, 02:11 AM
jjdd jjdd is offline
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Hi i did buy a STUDIO 1 Productions Video Processing Amp DUAL PA-200

does anyone use it for PAL signal ?

i did contact Signvideo about it and here is the email i did get

first email was this

There is a PAL version of the pa-100 Proc Amp but we don't have any left. (the
NTSC version does not work on PAL). You might search ebay.com for a used
one. Note that it was sold both under the Sign Video and Studio 1 brand
names.

but then i did get one more email from them next day that did say this

Note that the hue control did not work with PAL.
Also the NTSC version will work with PAL IF the input comes from S-Video (chroma separation is done BEFORE the proc amp)

so is there anyone that have test if NTSC version of it works with PAL if you use s-video ?
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  #2  
11-13-2019, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjdd View Post
so is there anyone that have test if NTSC version of it works with PAL if you use s-video ?
I do have one and I believe several people who visit this forum have one.

I could setup a PAL test, even though I'm normally an NTSC user.

Since the PA-100 or PA-200 is basically an Amplifier (hence Proc-Amp) it stands to reason that it should work on PAL as well as NTSC, they are both Analog signals which vibrate around a fundamental frequency that is very similar. The Vertical and Horizontal sync pulses are further out but Pro-Amps are not Time Base Correctors or Frame Synchronizers.. so they should not mess with Sync pulses.

Stripping out the Colour before passing Luma through the Amplifier also makes some sense because the the PAL Color burst runs as a higher pitch than that for NTSC Color burst.. to avoid noise.. there is probably has a low-pass filter that would attenuate the higher frequency and dull it if not squelch it entirely. (I would guess they were saying the Composite Input has this low-pass filter, but not the S-Video input). Hue control for NTSC would be a smaller range than that for PAL, so it would probably be little to ineffective for PAL. An NTSC PA-100 would be customized or tuned for the NTSC market.. but possibly could work for PAL.

This does not give you any new information, only a test would do that.
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  #3  
11-13-2019, 10:26 PM
jjdd jjdd is offline
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Thanks for the info jwillis84

I haven't got it yet i did download the manual but it did not say much about the power adapter so i whant to know about the power adapter to is it

Input 110volt AC 50hz or 60hz ?

and

Output 6 to 9 volt 0.8Amp AC 50hz or 60hz ?

i live in sweden so here we have 230volt AC 50hz

so if i buy a stepdown 230volt AC to 110volt AC converter i get 110volt AC 50hz is that ok ?

or can i buy a power adapter 230volt AC to 9volt AC 0.8Amp or maby 1Amp(and i guess itīs 50hz) here in sweden ?

if i must have 120volt AC 60hz then i guess i have to buy this i think a Pure Sine Wave Inverter 12volt DC to 120volt AC 60hz
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._pro_pure.html

Last edited by jjdd; 11-13-2019 at 10:44 PM.
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  #4  
11-13-2019, 11:17 PM
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I have several models, both PA-100 and PA-200, both SignVideo and Studio1 versions.

I always forget which can/cannot do PAL. From memory, I believe these are NTSC only.

To be honest, at this late date, I'd not entirely trust what a company like DataVideo or Cypress or SignVideo/Studio1 tells you. Because odds are the item predates the person. I've seen a lot of that in recent years, trying to contact the companies. So have some others here.

I've never heard of or seen a PAL Studio1/SignVideo PA whatsoever. Not that I can recall, at least, understanding I've been doing this for 25 years now.

Step converters (up/down) almost always introduce noise to video signals. They're dirty power. Native is almost always needed, and realize many devices are 110-240~50/60, meaning all you need is plug shape adapters.

When I next pull my PAL gear (this week, actually), I'll test the PAs that I have out.

There are some interesting RGB color adjusters for PAL on eBay, under $150 taxed/shipped.

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  #5  
11-13-2019, 11:50 PM
jjdd jjdd is offline
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Thanks for the info lordsmurf

i did send a message to the ebay seller if itīs posible to delay little before send it to me

lordsmurf if you do some pal testing can you post how it goes ?
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  #6  
11-14-2019, 12:05 AM
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Had I been drinking water/cola/etc while reading this post, I'd have spit it out all over the monitor from laughing. Odds of the eBay seller knowing anything whatsoever about that unit is about as unlikely as can be.

I'll be pulling gear this weekend.

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  #7  
11-14-2019, 12:08 AM
jjdd jjdd is offline
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Ok hehe thanks lordsmurf
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  #8  
11-14-2019, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwillis84 View Post

Stripping out the Colour before passing Luma through the Amplifier also makes some sense because the the PAL Color burst runs as a higher pitch than that for NTSC Color burst.. to avoid noise.. there is probably has a low-pass filter that would attenuate the higher frequency and dull it if not squelch it entirely.
It pretty much has to separate chroma and luma if you are to be able to adjust gain and chroma level separately, not to mention hue. PAL and NTSC has chroma on different frequencies so supporting both in the analog domain would require extra circuitry, especially if one wants somewhat decent comb filtering.
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  #9  
11-17-2019, 06:28 AM
jjdd jjdd is offline
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Checking if lordsmurf if you did have any time to see how Studio 1 Production PA-100 or Pa-200 did work with
PAL signal and with s-video conection ?
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  #10  
11-17-2019, 09:32 AM
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Sorry.. I'm spending more time with DVR/HDD recorders these days. Trying hard to get back to the JVCs.. but Philips 3590 is on my plate right now. Its a bit of a weird one.

Regarding power supplies.

All of the SignVideo / Studio 1 PAs use DC voltage from a wall adapter or "mains" adapter. They tend to get damaged or knocked around a bit and have to be replaced from time to time. So they are pretty generic. You just have match the voltage, amps capable and barrel plug polarity to enable them and not short them out with the wrong polarity plug.

If I recall correctly about the SV / S1 stuff.. the Proc Amps are specialized for PAL, but like others I have not hand one in my hands to verify. You might check the old archive.org archives of the signvideo website to look at the their old marketing material.

The old Datavideo TBCs had a dip switch internally I believe which switched them from NTSC to PAL or back again.

And I vaguely recall Toms video blog mentioning some of the PA or Detailers had a "range" that could be adjusted, presumably to allow them to effect the difference in the rasters between the NTSC and PAL standards. But I think it was also internal and they had to do this in shop before shipping. Here in the US it didn't matter much until Overscan went away and effectively became part of the picture people were capturing.. and they started to notice some of the lines were not being processed. So they adapted and offered to extend the range of the line processed.. which I guess was intended for the PAL models.. but well you know.
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  #11  
11-29-2019, 04:12 PM
jjdd jjdd is offline
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Thanks jwillis84 for the info hmm i think you mean AC 9v not DC

i did ask Signvideo about the Power adapter they did say it was ok to buy a step down adapter 230V AC to 110V AC and he did say that 50hz and 60hz is ok

and he did say like this in the email

50hz or 60hz is OK.
Why not get a 230v to 9v 1A locally? Amazon/Ebay should have them.

-- update --

I have the Studio 1 Productions PA-200 home now GAIN and SATURATION works on PAL signal

Input__________________Output
Composite PAL-------Composite PAL-------Works GAIN and SATURATION
Composite PAL-------S-video PAL----------Works GAIN and SATURATION
S-video PAL----------S-video PAL----------Works GAIN and SATURATION

BLACK donīt work full frame only 720x506 at max if i adjust the internal Potentiometer to max and that is about 175kOhm if i adjust it to MIN i get 720x362 and that is about 92kOhm
hmm i think if i can get the Potentiometer to 200kOhm i get perhaps full frame 720x576

HUE donīt work i must have it at the center position otherwise i get Hanover bars

i did test the original Power adapter 120v 60hz but i did get little rolling effect on the BLACK but if i did have BLACK in center position then i can not see it rolling

i did buy a new Power adapter 230v 50hz and it did work much better no rolling effect

it was from this post i did find how to adjust the Potentiometer Full frame overscan mod for SignVideo proc amp?

here is some pictures


Attached Images
File Type: jpg PA_200_Inside.jpg (102.7 KB, 7 downloads)
File Type: jpg Pa200_Pic1.jpg (69.6 KB, 5 downloads)
File Type: jpg PA200_Pic2.jpg (52.8 KB, 6 downloads)
File Type: jpg Power_Adapter_Original_120v.jpg (90.0 KB, 5 downloads)
File Type: jpg Power_Adapter_NEW_230v.jpg (86.9 KB, 6 downloads)
File Type: png PA_200_Svideo_PAL_Potentiometer_MIN_92Kohm_720x362.png (835.3 KB, 8 downloads)
File Type: png PA_200_Svideo_PAL_Potentiometer_MAX_175Kohm_720x506.png (797.7 KB, 7 downloads)
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  #12  
11-30-2019, 10:27 AM
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BTW, my testing never happened. Not-good stuff came up, not captured much for 2 weeks now.

I can still try my unit, verify your findings.
And then also do the DR-1000, since it's a sibling device.
But it'll be a while.

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  #13  
11-30-2019, 01:25 PM
jjdd jjdd is offline
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Hi lordsmurf no problem

I did get the BLACK to work to on PAL signal i did contact Signvideo and he did say what to do

under the Bottom potentiometer there is a 460kOhm Resistor you Lift one leg up and put a 100kOhm resistor or Potentiometer in serie

i did not have any 100kOhm resistor but i did have a 100kOhm Potentiometer and i did have to turn it full to get 100kOhm

hehe first i did only test to add a 10kOhm resitor i did get 8 more lines with that from 720x506 to 720x514 so i did need 62 more lines more to get to 720x576 so that itīs about 100kOhm

so now everything works except HUE with PAL signal

here is some pictures of the PAL mod


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  #14  
12-01-2019, 09:50 AM
jjdd jjdd is offline
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Here is some pictures of the finished PAL Mod

The Potentiometer is 100kOhm but when i did measure it with My Fluke 87V it did read 101.5kOhm


Attached Images
File Type: jpg Pic1 PAL Mod.jpg (87.4 KB, 4 downloads)
File Type: jpg Pic2 PAL Mod.jpg (96.5 KB, 4 downloads)
File Type: jpg Pic3 PAL Mod.jpg (95.0 KB, 4 downloads)
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pa-100, pa-200, proc amp, signvideo, studio 1

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