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  #1  
11-21-2019, 01:26 PM
Darth_Saruman Darth_Saruman is offline
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I have a working Sony Handycam Hi8/Video 8(CCD-TRV66).

I want to transfer my old Hi8 tapes to my PC (specs below). For certain tapes, I would like to make edits in Davinci Resolve, so I assume they should be in h.264 format. The final destination will most likely be YouTube.

So I would like to know which video capture device and software is recommended for that. (Budget max is $200). Or at least, if someone could point me to a thread that covers this specifically, I'd appreciate it.

PC Specs:
Win10/Ryzen 9 3900x/GeForce RTX 2070 Armor 8GB / 32GB RAM

I have DaVinci Resolve 16 & OBS Studio

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  #2  
01-22-2020, 01:05 PM
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No, not H.264, that will reduce quality. H.264 is a delivery/final format, not working/intermediary format.

With a budget of $200, you can any of the recommended quality cards.

Don't use OBS. It's streaming capture tool, not analog. Yes, it can "also" do analog, but that's not where it excels. Use VirtualDub for quality capture of analog.

System specs look good, DaVinci is mostly for color correction/grading.

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01-22-2020, 03:28 PM
Darth_Saruman Darth_Saruman is offline
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Thanks for the reply. I purchased an Advc-110 from eBay, so I'll see how that works when it arrives(along with the firewire card!). Thanks for recommending VirtualDub over and above OBS. I wouldn't have known that otherwise.

FYI, DaVinci Resolve 16.1.2 is now pretty great for editing, audio, and FX as well. Not just color grading. Lots of people are switching to it from the Adobe suite because the free version is quite extensive, and the pro version is only a one time fee.

Anyway, thanks again.

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  #4  
01-22-2020, 09:21 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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As a restooration tool for analog defects and noise, DaVinci and Adobe Pro have the same rating -- absolutely useless. Play with color, ugly-up the the edits with FX, but that's it. No cleanup. Period. Not debatable. If you can find a way to clean up the DV noise and compression artifacts you get with your DV card, let us know how you used DaVinci to do it. We don't want opinions or reworked YouTube copies, we want to see hard evidence. You can post visible results here.

- You can't use VirtualDub with Firewire, and DV is not lossless.
- Unless something has changed, you can't use lossless codecs with DaVinci, which for a so-called "pro" product is pathetic.
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  #5  
01-22-2020, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
I purchased an Advc-110 from eBay, so I'll see how that works when it arrives(along with the firewire card!).
WinDV is the tool to use on it. Just set it up correctly, what few options it has.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
- Unless something has changed, you can't use lossless codecs with DaVinci, which for a so-called "pro" product is pathetic.
Ugh. Really?

I want to confirm that, but if true, I guess me wanting to play with DaVinci is now at the bottom of my to-do list. Premiere works with lossless, my NLE of choice for 20+ years now.

However, that all said, I think Darth_Saruman mostly referred to editing and effects with DaVinci, effectively same tasks as Premiere (but maybe more akin to After Effects?), plus the color grading. I didn't see him mention restoration.

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  #6  
01-23-2020, 09:50 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Analog source with no cleanup, especially analog to lossy noisy DV, is a waste of time whether you use Adobe or DaVinci. One might just as well record direct to DVD or AVCHD and be done with it. Not even DaVinci can make noisy DV with its plastic chroma and bad levels look good. Just my $0.02 after years of experience and observation.
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  #7  
01-23-2020, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
Analog source with no cleanup
Well, don't forget that the mere act of conversion -- when done properly, good workflow with line+frame TBCs, maybe even option proc amps -- will be much better than the source tape. Whether you do more work to the captured file/video beyond that is optional, though often elected.

The biggest issue I observe are "clipshow tapes", where a person shot little 2-5 minute scenes, spanning weekso r months, indoor and out, differing lighting/weather conditions, on a SP 2-hour tape, using a home/consumer camcorder. The white balance and exposure per clip is all over the map. It's very tedious, time consuming. So a single "overall best" per-tape balance is used.

The original off colors are just a byproduct of the times, and sometimes nostalgia in itself. We have videos of T-ball and 1st haircuts, and all sorts of things that really are not worth extreme effort. Those are saved for rare videos with long-gone grandparents, weddings, meaningful events. Life's too short to over-correct every second of footage, even I cannot do that. There must be a point to stop, pat yourself on the back for a job well done, and move on to the next tape/project. Must resist OCD! (Everybody can get it.)

It's the 3 bears. Not too much, not too little, but just right.
Or The Price is Right. Get as close as you can, but without going over, or too far under.
Don't do half-@ss non-quality work.
Or inversely, OCD, too much work (as the project will NEVER end).

Quote:
analog to lossy noisy DV, is a waste of time
Yes, true, NTSC DV 4:1:1 does damage the improved signal. But I'd classify more as an "extreme disservice to all future viewers", rather than waste of time. Because, again, when other parts of the workflow are in place, the end result will be better. Just far less better with DV.

Not using a proper workflow is just wasting time on a project that must be re-done. I agree entirely, especially seeing as how MANY of our projects here are redo jobs, either bad DIY and slipshod hack "professional" services.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Saruman
I have a working Sony Handycam Hi8/Video 8(CCD-TRV66).
This is a good camera, so you have a line TBC. That's a good start.

from Video8/Hi8/Digital8/DV/Betamax Buying Guide for quality conversion
Quote:
Hi8 stereo with TBC and s-video:
CCD-TRV66
Lack of frame TBC may be an issue, but given your budget and devices available, we'll just need to see what happens, if unwilling or unable to acquire a lower-cost frame TBC(ish).

But the DV is a downgrade, and you'd be better off with lossless from many other cards -- all ironically which cost less than the overpriced Canopus DV boxes. It's double punishment, lose-lose, more expensive item for reduced quality.

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  #8  
01-23-2020, 11:56 AM
Darth_Saruman Darth_Saruman is offline
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Thanks for the wealth of info. For the record, right now I am not doing anything on a professional level. Wasn't planning on restoration, as much as I just want to get this old footage onto my PC and have some fun with it in DaVinci Resolve. And I wanted to avoid using those cheapy capture devices that a lot of people recommend.

If I ever decided to turn conversion/restoration into a business, I will definitely use this post and forum as my go-to guide. Thanks again.

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  #9  
01-23-2020, 01:10 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Nobody here has suggested a professional workflow.

There is a huge difference between basic/essential home/hobby/DIY and professional.
See also: http://www.digitalfaq.com/editorials...g-workflow.htm

Items like TBCs are essential, not optional, not "just for professionals".

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  #10  
01-23-2020, 01:28 PM
ehbowen ehbowen is offline
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I have experimented with DaVinci Resolve, and I have to agree with Sanlyn. Yes, it's a decent NLE...or, at least it would be if it recognized lossless codecs. The few times I've tried to work with it I converted my source video to Apple ProRes using very high quality settings in VDub2. But it wasn't enough of an advantage over my preferred NLE, the very modestly priced Corel VideoStudio Ultimate, which recognizes lossless codecs just fine...and has superior DVD (and, optionally, Blu-ray) mastering options as well.

For restoring quality, you can't beat AviSynth. Steep learning curve (which I'm still just beginning to climb), but awesome results. (And it's free!)
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  #11  
01-24-2020, 11:27 AM
ELinder ELinder is offline
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I can't help but think there's a lot of "hey you kids, get off my lawn!" ingrained habits in the poo=pooing of Resolve on this board. It's a tool, it's good in some things, not so good in others. The problem here is people have years, even decades, of experience with AviSynth and its plugins as well as Virtualdub, all dedicated to reworking analog sources. But for things like editing, combining clips, color correcting, and some repairs, I prefer Resolve.

Resolve is indeed limited in its lossless codec support, but I've tried H265 lossless from Virtualdub2, and it works. (Oops, many people here don't like VDub2 over VDub either many times).

It is also not "Play with color, ugly-up the the edits with FX, but that's it. No cleanup. Period. Not debatable." Really? Have you tried how quick and easy it is to get rid of hair, lines, or dirt on a negative transfer with the FX tools in Resolve? How about how easy it is to replace part of a frame with the corresponding part of the previous or following frame?

I'm not saying do everything in Resolve, but like all tools, use its strengths, not its weaknesses.

Erich

-- merged --

I don't know what other programs have this, but one of the things I really like in Resolve 16 color corrections is having my histogram and curves be superimposed and interactive. Any points or changes I make are reflected live in the histogram, which make it much easier to see where I need to add points and change curves vs just using the normal scopes panels.



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  #12  
01-24-2020, 12:15 PM
jjdd jjdd is offline
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if i want to use DaVinci Resolve then i use in Avisynth to output as image sequence and that works good in Resolve


Avisynth to use imagewriter function to output image sequence in tiff format like this example

Code:
return last.ConvertToRGB24().imagewriter(file="D:\movie\image%d.tiff",start=0,end=0,type="tiff")

in Virtualdub i use Blackmagic 10bit 4:2:2 Codec that output avi file that works in DaVinci Resolve if i remember right 8bit does not work you need to install Blackmagic Desktop Video 11.4.1 to get does codecs maby there is some other way to
hmm maby you get them when you install DaVinci Resolve i do not know

here is a picture and one more thing if i remember right ffmpeg prores did work to


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Last edited by jjdd; 01-24-2020 at 12:41 PM.
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  #13  
01-24-2020, 12:24 PM
ELinder ELinder is offline
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The ffmpeg ProRes 422 HQ from Virtualdub2 works very well in Resolve also, which is what I use after I'm done with AviSynth/VDub. I'm not sure what the difference is between that and the BMD version.
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  #14  
01-24-2020, 12:28 PM
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I'm fine with ProRes422, and it Resolve is fine with it, I'm fine with Resolve's input codecs allowed.

Mercalli has limited input support, and only outputs MP4 or "Quicktime" (?). But it's a required tool for me. The MP4 (H.264) seems to be very not-lossy, but I do still cringe.

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