Quantcast PAL capture test: AIWs, 600 USB, Blackmagic - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
11-26-2019, 02:52 AM
jjdd jjdd is offline
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Hmm maybe pointless test but i put it here anyway but admin can delete it of course

i did a little test on my capture cards and itīs dvd captures from my Sony DVD Player DVP-S315

i did use VirtualDub and Huffyuv on all the captures and s-video connection

i did put a original screenshot from the dvd as a reference


Attached Images
File Type: png Original DVD.png (359.9 KB, 12 downloads)
File Type: png All In Wonder 9200.png (579.4 KB, 13 downloads)
File Type: png ATI TV Wonder HD 600 USB.png (651.4 KB, 12 downloads)
File Type: png ati tv wonder usb 2.0N.png (599.0 KB, 11 downloads)
File Type: png blackmagic_intensity_shuttle.png (791.9 KB, 13 downloads)
File Type: png All-In-Wonder 2006 Edition PCI Express.png (580.2 KB, 13 downloads)

Last edited by jjdd; 11-26-2019 at 03:06 AM.
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  #2  
11-26-2019, 05:22 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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ATI AIW drivers can really affect offset and color, especially those latter drivers. It's odd to see desaturation of color like that. It does appear that IRE is at NTSC, and a proc amp adjustment is needed, but some drivers should already be compensating for IRE with put into PAL mode, especially in ATI MMC.

The AIW offset can also be driver version, and is why the 9200 shows the sub-720x480 crop.

BM cards look decent, but color isn't the problem, dropped frames (with or without TBC) are. A shame.

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  #3  
11-26-2019, 06:10 AM
jjdd jjdd is offline
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Hi for the 9200 capture i did use 704x576 because if i do 720x576 i get wrong aspect ratio :/

but when i capture 704x576 i get right aspect ratio but it crop little on the left side :/
and with 720x576 i get no crop problem i get full picture but then i have wrong aspect ratio problem instead
i have tested many wdm and display drivers but i can not get it to work perfect for my all-in-wonder 9000 and 9200

for the other capture cards i did use 720x576


hmm i have a feeling that all-in-wonder 9600 and newer donīt have that aspect ratio problem and crop problem for PAL signal 720x576 because my all-in-wonder 2006 edition pci express donīt have that problem

for me all-in-wonder 2006 edition pci express works best of all my all-in-wonder cards if i use Virtualdub


hmm one more thing if i understand it correct when i use MMC 9.12 and my all-in-wonder 2006 edition pci express i can then only use all-in-wonder 2006 edition pci express own audio device and the quality is not good at all and itīs so low to but video is very good

i want to use MMC 9.12 and all-in-wonder 2006 edition pci express with my external soundcard can i do that ?

hmm maby i can use Graphedit somehow to connect all-in-wonder 2006 edition pci express and my sound card and then use MMC 9.12
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  #4  
11-26-2019, 11:34 AM
hodgey hodgey is offline
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The blackmagic card looks a little bent at the top, not good. Chroma looks clean, but maybe a bit off saturation-wise. It's the one that gets the most detail from the narrowest vertical bars at the right.

ATI TV Wonder 600 seems to have right levels etc, but chroma does not look great, bit more detail than the other ATI cards.

The rest of the ATI cards all seem to have some slight ringing around the sharpest edges, and the contrast and saturation looks too low. THey also completely fail to pick up the vertical bars in square on the top right.

TV Wonder 2.0 USB and AIW 2006 seems to have the capture window moved down slightly (Diamond VC500 does the same thing on windows).
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  #5  
11-26-2019, 12:00 PM
jjdd jjdd is offline
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Yes you are right hodgey and the TV Wonder 2.0 USB have bad Hanover bars :/

i did notice that when i change Video standard example to PAL_B then i have to reset the card i mean i have to reselect the capture card from VirtualDub and then Device and choose the capture card again

when i did do that i did get little better color on the 9200 and all-in-wonder 2006 edition pci express

i upload the new screenshots to does two card

hmm i did notice that when i look at the .png screenshot on my computer with irfanview app itīs sharper then on the web browser maybe .bmp is better to upload then .png format


Attached Images
File Type: png All In Wonder 9200_NEW.png (613.7 KB, 4 downloads)
File Type: png All-In-Wonder 2006 Edition PCI Express_NEW.png (613.9 KB, 5 downloads)

Last edited by jjdd; 11-26-2019 at 12:32 PM.
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  #6  
11-30-2019, 08:17 AM
Eric-Jan Eric-Jan is offline
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All captures are done via composite video (RCA) ?
Why capture DVD, not VHS ?
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  #7  
11-30-2019, 09:11 AM
jjdd jjdd is offline
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Hi i did use S-video when i did do the capture on all does capture cards

i was lazy maybe i do vhs capture in the future on does test patterns
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  #8  
11-30-2019, 10:10 AM
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The AIW USB is externally powered, so I have to ask: how are you powering it? If not the OEM adapter, directly into non-step power (use shape adapter from the PSU OEM), then noise is likely. Whenever I'd sold AIW USB in the past, I gave the person the correct adapter for their location. I'd bought adapters for UK, Australia, and Europe.

VirtualDub, and sometimes even ATI MMC, have always been squirrelly about changing formats. You often have to change it, restart the program, a few times even reboot the system.

The forum sometimes has to convert PNG to JPEG, because the PNG isn't actually standards-valid. So in addition to the image attachments, you can also attach the PNGs inside a zip, if you think it looks different after upload.

For capture test patterns, VHS is a variable. DVD removes that. So that's why DVD was captured here.

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  #9  
11-30-2019, 01:51 PM
jjdd jjdd is offline
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Hi ok lordsmurf

i use shape adapter that i did buy extra from ebay

here is some pictures of my AIW Usb 2.0N


Attached Images
File Type: jpg Pic1_ati tv wonder usb 2.0N.jpg (55.3 KB, 7 downloads)
File Type: jpg Pic2_ati tv wonder usb 2.0N.jpg (58.8 KB, 5 downloads)
File Type: jpg Pic3_ati tv wonder usb 2.0N.jpg (67.7 KB, 5 downloads)
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  #10  
11-30-2019, 05:52 PM
Eric-Jan Eric-Jan is offline
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Ah, test purpose only, normaly i rip/transfer a dvd... if ever...

Btw, european vcr's often had RGB output on the SCART connection for CRT tv's, isn't that usable in some way to capture,
or maybe with the help of some conversion ?
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  #11  
11-30-2019, 07:40 PM
hodgey hodgey is offline
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European VCRs rarely if ever have RGB output on scart other than being able to pass RGB from a scart input to a scart output, or for DVD/VCR combos, RGB output for the DVD section only. What you get on the scart port is composite, and optionally S-Video on SVHS decks . B]Certain[/B] DVD-Recorder combo units are capable of component output via RCA or SCART (some only deinterlaced progressive scan). There may be some that also have RGB output, but I don't know. E.g the Panasonic DMR-ES30 manual states "RGB is not available for VHS playback", while the ES35V manual does not mention this so maybe RGB out works even on VHS on that one.

In any case capturing an RGB-converted signal from VHS would not really be ideal, you will want to avoid any RGB conversion before doing filtering.
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  #12  
12-01-2019, 09:51 AM
Eric-Jan Eric-Jan is offline
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added to that, there where "variables" on how RGB was synced, guess that's the reason it didn't got populair, but it was an advantage for dvd players on CRT tv's in europe, i renember, for a sharp image, and with super-VHS you could review TeleText or Ceefax information. RGB does not work for the ES35V indeed, i guess because it was somehow a newer model, still i don't understand why the ES35V delivers such a steady video signal over all video outputs, i'm capture with the Intensity Shuttle, which is a very critical device when it comes to video signal quality, there's no TBC involved, my guess the ES35V has a frame buffer, but i see no artefacts of any kind, even "picture search" does not cause any dropped frames, or causes any audio sync issues.
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  #13  
12-01-2019, 10:40 AM
hodgey hodgey is offline
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I think video on the outputs from the VCR part of the ES30 and ES35 go through the internal video digitizer chip, so it sort of acts like a mid-range mid 2000s panasonic VCR permanently hooked up to a Panasonic DVD recorder (via composite). I got an LG combo DVD recorder VCR that acts similarly, though it's a bit more basic with a Philips/NXP video chip instead of the fancy panasonic ones.
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  #14  
12-01-2019, 11:39 AM
Eric-Jan Eric-Jan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hodgey View Post
I think video on the outputs from the VCR part of the ES30 and ES35 go through the internal video digitizer chip, so it sort of acts like a mid-range mid 2000s panasonic VCR permanently hooked up to a Panasonic DVD recorder (via composite). I got an LG combo DVD recorder VCR that acts similarly, though it's a bit more basic with a Philips/NXP video chip instead of the fancy panasonic ones.
Thank you for this info ! I'm very happy with this combo, it even plays VCD's although that quality is just bad...
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