Quantcast Video8/Hi8/Digital8/DV/Betamax Buying Guide for quality conversion - Page 3 - digitalFAQ Forum
Go Back    Forum > Digital Video > Video Project Help > Capture, Record, Transfer

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #41  
05-20-2020, 01:32 AM
HBB360 HBB360 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 64
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by HBB360 View Post
This looks good, maybe have VTR Capable in parentheses next to the header, like this:

Video-In Connections (VTR Capable)
Digital Video (DV) - aka Firewire or Sony i.Link
S-Video (Y/C) Analog
I actually posted that before looking at how the spreadsheet was formatted. I'm not sure it'll work with your formatting so I think you should stick to the way you proposed it with VTR Capable on a separate line with Y/N for each model.
Reply With Quote
Someday, 12:01 PM
admin's Avatar
Ads / Sponsors
 
Join Date: ∞
Posts: 42
Thanks: ∞
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
  #42  
05-20-2020, 12:09 PM
GrouseHiker GrouseHiker is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 14
Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by HBB360 View Post
I actually posted that before looking at how the spreadsheet was formatted. I'm not sure it'll work with your formatting so I think you should stick to the way you proposed it with VTR Capable on a separate line with Y/N for each model.
Yes, I was struggling with defining inputs AND VTR capable. Maybe add to "Special Functions" like this:

Video-In Connections
Digital Video (DV) - aka Firewire or Sony i.Link
S-Video (Y/C) Analog
Special Functions
External Analog to Digital Conversion
VTR Capable
Reply With Quote
  #43  
05-21-2020, 03:02 AM
HBB360 HBB360 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 64
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Looks good, having it in a different category makes sense since it's not a video input, but rather a function and grouping it together with the A to D conversion makes sense as they're both special features.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
05-30-2020, 09:11 PM
GrouseHiker GrouseHiker is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 14
Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts
Here's the latest version of the spreadsheet. The yellow-highlighted row titles seem to be the important ones.

Only the green-highlighted cells have been verified by me.


Attached Files
File Type: xlsx 8mm Players.xlsx (91.5 KB, 108 downloads)
Reply With Quote
The following users thank GrouseHiker for this useful post: bluegrassdj (04-09-2021), HBB360 (07-27-2020), The_Outsider (03-13-2021)
  #45  
07-26-2020, 10:28 PM
xCasas94 xCasas94 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hi man, I'm new to all this world of analog old camcorders, I see the list but I don't really know if all of them can work for what I want or if only some of them

I basically want to film (I actually want that vintage image that all of them have, I've been watching video samples of the 87 and I loved it) and have good sound (I mean good sound in the context of an old camera, lol) and the possibility to convert/transfer my recordings to my computer.

Which you think (or anyone else) could be my best choice of these lists?


Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
This post is work in progress...

Hi8 stereo with TBC and s-video:
CCD-TRV62
CCD-TRV65
CCD-TRV66
CCD-TRV67
CCD-TRV72
CCD-TRV82
CCD-TRV85
CCD-TRV87
CCD-TRV93
CCD-TRV99
CCD-TRV101
CCD-TRV615

Hi8 mono with TBC and s-video:
CCD-TRV68
CCD-TRV88
CCD-TRV98
CCD-TRV108
CCD-TRV138
CCD-TRV308
CCD-TRV318
CCD-TRV608

Digital8 with Video8/Hi8 playback and s-video:
DCR-TRV120
DCR-TRV230
DCR-TRV240
DCR-TRV320
DCR-TRV330
DCR-TRV340
DCR-TRV350
DCR-TRV460
DCR-TRV530
DCR-TRV720
DCR-TRV730
DCR-TRV740
DCR-TRV820
DCR-TRV830
DCR-TRV840

Thanks to volkjager for seeding the Hi8/D8 camera lists.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
07-27-2020, 04:33 AM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 2,206
Thanked 377 Times in 346 Posts
You will be looking at this list for analog recording NTSC:

Code:
Hi8 stereo with TBC and s-video:
CCD-TRV62
CCD-TRV65
CCD-TRV66
CCD-TRV67
CCD-TRV72
CCD-TRV82
CCD-TRV85
CCD-TRV87
CCD-TRV93
CCD-TRV99
CCD-TRV101
CCD-TRV615
I actually own the CCD-TRV66.
Reply With Quote
The following users thank latreche34 for this useful post: xCasas94 (07-27-2020)
  #47  
07-27-2020, 07:56 AM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: VA
Posts: 1,429
Thanked 324 Times in 282 Posts
What aspects of the "olden" image are you trying to emulate?

Do you want Hi8/S-VHS quality/resolution, or VHS/8mm quality?
Since you want good sound, so you may want a stereo model that can use an external stereo microphone or line level input. (Relying on an internal microphone will rarely if ever produce good audio.)

These old machines generally have been subject to storage abuse and perhaps misuse over the years, so finding a good working model will take effort. Auction sites, garage sales, and thrift shops buys are risky because the sellers rarely know or accurately report the actual condition. In any case they mainly used NiCad and NiMH batteries that by now have likely exceeded their useful life (i.e., have very limited ability to take/hold a charge).

An alternative is to shoot with a modern HD camcorder that can better cope with poor lighting and use effects software in post production to dumb down the video to emulate the legacy look when needed, and provide much better HD video what needed.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
07-27-2020, 12:57 PM
xCasas94 xCasas94 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
As I said I'm super new to this cameras so I don't know that much about specs
But as a reference, I've been watching videos of some of the cameras listed in the post and I liked the trv87 a lot, and by "good audio" I meant more like not distorted audio (In some videos I watched the audio was uuugly like when you get too close to a very bad micrphone), In case (again) of the trv87 I liked it

I assume is because the higher the numer, the "newer" the camera?



Quote:
Originally Posted by dpalomaki View Post
What aspects of the "olden" image are you trying to emulate?

Do you want Hi8/S-VHS quality/resolution, or VHS/8mm quality?
Since you want good sound, so you may want a stereo model that can use an external stereo microphone or line level input. (Relying on an internal microphone will rarely if ever produce good audio.)

These old machines generally have been subject to storage abuse and perhaps misuse over the years, so finding a good working model will take effort. Auction sites, garage sales, and thrift shops buys are risky because the sellers rarely know or accurately report the actual condition. In any case they mainly used NiCad and NiMH batteries that by now have likely exceeded their useful life (i.e., have very limited ability to take/hold a charge).

An alternative is to shoot with a modern HD camcorder that can better cope with poor lighting and use effects software in post production to dumb down the video to emulate the legacy look when needed, and provide much better HD video what needed.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
07-27-2020, 12:59 PM
xCasas94 xCasas94 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thank you man, I'll be looking for these models on ebay, wish me luck since every camera I look for of the list is like 1 millon dolars on bids

Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
You will be looking at this list for analog recording NTSC:

Code:
Hi8 stereo with TBC and s-video:
CCD-TRV62
CCD-TRV65
CCD-TRV66
CCD-TRV67
CCD-TRV72
CCD-TRV82
CCD-TRV85
CCD-TRV87
CCD-TRV93
CCD-TRV99
CCD-TRV101
CCD-TRV615
I actually own the CCD-TRV66.
(Sorry for the two replies of the post to quote both answers, I didn't knew how to quote both answers in the same reply)
Reply With Quote
  #50  
08-25-2020, 09:56 AM
cal3b cal3b is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 7
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Just want to say this thread is extremely helpful and awesome and amazing!

I've been on and off looking for Digital8 camera for a while now and the number of times that I thought I knew something about a model only to later find seemingly contradictory information about it in a different thread on a different forum is way too high. All of that's to say I think a centralised wiki describing what we know about these cameras would be a truly excellent idea!

Even if the wiki just started with what's on the excel spreadsheet right now, I think it would be extremely helpful. But since people could also slowly start adding more and more information they know to be true by owning specific models, the wiki would become even more helpful over time.

I could imagine it being similar to something like the openwrt table of hardware: https://openwrt.org/toh/start
Reply With Quote
  #51  
06-22-2021, 11:40 PM
nicholasserra nicholasserra is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 71
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Looking at the manual for the Sony CCD-TRV67 and I think it's actually mono not stereo out.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
06-23-2021, 06:01 AM
hodgey hodgey is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,379
Thanked 368 Times in 312 Posts
Looks like that is indeed the case for both the NTSC and PAL variants.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
07-05-2021, 07:08 PM
aussieskier aussieskier is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Virginia
Posts: 5
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Do digital8 camcorder playing back video8 or hi8 convert to DV and/or 4:1:1 color space (for NTSC) when the signal is output to s-video?

Iíve seen differing information, so just trying to get to the bottom of what works for lossless capture.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
10-07-2021, 07:44 PM
AnalogDoughnuts AnalogDoughnuts is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I am trying to figure out the same thing as well. Have you found a conclusive answer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aussieskier View Post
Do digital8 camcorder playing back video8 or hi8 convert to DV and/or 4:1:1 color space (for NTSC) when the signal is output to s-video?

I’ve seen differing information, so just trying to get to the bottom of what works for lossless capture.

Last edited by AnalogDoughnuts; 10-07-2021 at 07:47 PM. Reason: didn't format quote correctly
Reply With Quote
  #55  
10-07-2021, 08:09 PM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: VA
Posts: 1,429
Thanked 324 Times in 282 Posts
Quote:
Do digital8 camcorder playing back video8 or hi8 convert to DV and/or 4:1:1 color space (for NTSC) when the signal is output to s-video?

Read more: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-capture/10257-video8-hi8-digital8-3.html#ixzz78excdt2Z
S-video is an analog video stream, DV and 4:1:1 have no cleaning meaning for analog video streams. They have meaning for signals in the digital domain and imply the sampling and compression schemes used. They do set limits on the bandwidth (aka: frequency response or resolution) of the digital signal when converted to an analog.

You would have to examine the particulars of the D8 camcorder being used to determine what, if any form, of digital conversion are used in the analog output signal chain.



.
Reply With Quote
The following users thank dpalomaki for this useful post: AnalogDoughnuts (10-07-2021)
  #56  
10-07-2021, 09:20 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 2,206
Thanked 377 Times in 346 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by aussieskier View Post
Do digital8 camcorder playing back video8 or hi8 convert to DV and/or 4:1:1 color space (for NTSC) when the signal is output to s-video?

I’ve seen differing information, so just trying to get to the bottom of what works for lossless capture.
Looking at some Sony schematics and the common sense of engineering design the answer is no, Sony puts the DV encoder at the end of all processes right before the firewire output, Everything else such as TBC and DNR use a normal ADC and a volatile memory for few frames, probably in 8 bit but still lossless, It would take a lot of processing power to use DV codec for TBC/DNR plus a DV decoder to convert it to normal digital then off to a DAC to convert it to analog. What differentiate D8 camcorders from Hi8/V8 is that there is no 100% analog path when TBC turned off, Everything must pass through an ADC and then DAC for analog output or ADC then DV encoder out to firewire.
Reply With Quote
The following users thank latreche34 for this useful post: AnalogDoughnuts (10-08-2021)
  #57  
10-08-2021, 09:35 AM
hodgey hodgey is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,379
Thanked 368 Times in 312 Posts
Judging by the service manuals, e.g this one for the TRV66, the Hi8 camcorders with TBC (and seemingly also the cheaper video8 models from the same time) also convert the head amp output to digital before any processing. Looks like it may be 10 bit ( at least for pb C) but not sure. I don't think it's inherently a bad thing though. For a full analog chain you would have to go back to the older models or VCRs where the processing was done in the analog domain. (VCRs with TBC like the EV-S9000 seems to do the main stuff in analog and use a digital block for noise reduction and TBC and Y/C filtering.)

There were a few VHS vcrs that did something similar, including the AG1980P, AGDSxxx, NVHS950, NVHS860/960 and some late model (S)VHSC camcorders. Other VHS vcrs typically did everything other than TBC, DNR (and Y/C filtering on newer SVHS decks) in analog.
Reply With Quote
The following users thank hodgey for this useful post: AnalogDoughnuts (10-08-2021), msgohan (10-08-2021)
  #58  
10-18-2021, 02:57 PM
Diopter_Doctor's Avatar
Diopter_Doctor Diopter_Doctor is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 40
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
What differentiate D8 camcorders from Hi8/V8 is that there is no 100% analog path when TBC turned off, Everything must pass through an ADC and then DAC for analog output or ADC then DV encoder out to firewire.
I'm just trying to clarify what you're saying here.

For D8 camcorders that can play back analog recordings on 8mm/Hi8 tapes, the analog signal is going through an ADC then a DAC before ending up at the S-video output connector on the side of the camcorder, ONLY IF the TBC is turned off or regardless if it's on or off?

Are you getting your info from a service manual for a particular DCR model?

Spending time and money on a bygone era
Reply With Quote
  #59  
10-18-2021, 03:27 PM
msgohan msgohan is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 1,323
Thanked 329 Times in 274 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diopter_Doctor View Post
For D8 camcorders that can play back analog recordings on 8mm/Hi8 tapes, the analog signal is going through an ADC then a DAC before ending up at the S-video output connector on the side of the camcorder, ONLY IF the TBC is turned off or regardless if it's on or off?
At least for my DCR-TRV340, it's as latreche34 says: there is no direct analog output path. It's always analog-digital-analog. TBC on/off doesn't change this. (Note that this is different than saying it's DV-compressed. This digitization is uncompressed.)

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...parison-(Hi8)-[WARNING-auto-load!]#post2431845

Last edited by msgohan; 10-18-2021 at 03:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
The following users thank msgohan for this useful post: AnalogDoughnuts (10-21-2021)
  #60  
10-18-2021, 03:36 PM
hodgey hodgey is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,379
Thanked 368 Times in 312 Posts
To clarify, if you look at service manuals (e.g the one I linked), in both the D8 camcorders and later model 8mm/Hi8 only ones the signal from the head amplifier goes through one ADC for Y and one ADC for C and the camcorder does most of the processing in digital before turning it back to analog before output. It does this regardless of whether the TBC is active. (That doesn't imply the older models with all analog chains are better though.)
Reply With Quote
The following users thank hodgey for this useful post: AnalogDoughnuts (10-19-2021), msgohan (10-21-2021)
Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is there a Betamax VCR buying guide? DeeSeven Capture, Record, Transfer 20 04-10-2022 03:51 PM
Guidance for DIY high quality Hi8/Digital8 conversion? foosy Project Planning, Workflows 18 05-16-2019 10:36 PM
FS: Sony DCR-T8000E Digital8 (Video8/Hi8) camcorder [SOLD] juhok Marketplace 11 12-31-2017 08:22 AM
Video8 tape losing picture, played on a Digital8 camcorder. digicube Capture, Record, Transfer 0 09-11-2016 04:57 PM

Thread Tools



 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:56 AM