Quantcast Datavideo TBC-3000: S-video output not working? - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
01-16-2020, 04:32 PM
OBNOXIUs OBNOXIUs is offline
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Hello everybody,

I bought a Datavideo TBC-3000 about a year ago, I didn't work right away so I set it aside for awhile. Now I'm back at it. The circuitry seems to be allright (hopefully!), since the Composite output is going, but I can't seem to get anything reasonable out of the S-Video output. My workflow:
  • JVC HR-S7600EU
  • ...S-Video to ...
  • Datavideo TBC-3000
  • ...both Composite & S-Video to ...
  • Diamond VC500
I attached a video where I switch between Composite and S-Video source in Virtualdub (I screencaptured in win10 and unfortunately dropdown menus aren't shown...). When the VHS is playing, the S-Video output has no signal at all for the most time, but every now and then a garbled distorted image shows up.

Things I've tested:
  • The power adapter that I got with my purchase probably wasn't an original one, since it was 9V 1.0A. I tested with a 1.7A today but nothing changed.
  • Both channels act the same
  • The monitor output I also can't use: I connect it to my flatscreen TV, and while most of the time there is no image at all, when there is it's slowly rolling vertically over the screen with red/green/blue colors all over the place.
I'm wondering if anyone has experienced something similar? Or can recognize through the video what can be the cause?
This forum helped me a lot with learning how to digitize analog video, and what gear is needed, so it was from reading here that I decided to buy a TBC. I still hope my purchase was a good one...!

thanks for taking the time to answer,
Karel

ps. in the attachment video I start out with a running VHS, capturing S-video and showing nothing. Then I switch in Virtualdub to Composite and the image shows up. Then I stop the VHS, and switch back to S-video in Virtualdub, where it again shows nothing.


Attached Files
File Type: mp4 VirtualDub2 - capture mode [] 2020-01-16 22-20-38.mp4 (9.55 MB, 4 downloads)
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  #2  
01-16-2020, 10:25 PM
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The TBC seems to be working spot on, when you get data through the VC500.

I would definitely suspect something other than the TBC3000, its not that flaky.. its too simple, works or does not work.. there is no try.

Make sure the Virtualdub Audio Playback is unchecked.. that often steals interrupts from the USB bus which the VC500 is trying to use for capture.. and does cause drop outs.

Audio playback is a "Creature comfort" during capture.. capture does capture audio and video when it captures.. but playing it back simultaneous with capture interacts badly with the flow into the the PC.

Also make sure you use Video "Preview" not "Overlay" when viewing.. that can also mess up the capture. Overlay "may" work.. sort of.. but also does what your seeing on some capture devices. Overlay with a USB capture device is technically not possible.. it can be faked at "enormous CPU" cost.. its essentially a poor version of Preview stuffed into what you think is Overlay mode. [Do Not] use one of the fancy "Preview" modes.. set it to [off] that takes it as the capture device offers it.. any other setting than [off] churns up algorithms to post process the default Preview frames coming out of the capture device.. costing enormous CPU cycles. Just use "Preview - off" and you get raw Preview for the lowest cost and most efficient view possible.

This advice is totally "different" for an AGP or PCI capture card.. those are nothing like USB capture devices.. totally different situation.
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  #3  
01-17-2020, 06:03 AM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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EDIT: I see from your post history you have a DMR-ES10. This should be useful to diagnose the issue, because the VC500 squelches bad input to BLUE SCREEN while the DMR-ES10 attempts to decode it.


(from my post eBay: 3 attempts to buy Panasonic VCR, 3 broken machines)

Hook up TBC-3000 S-Video output to DMR-ES10 input, and DMR-ES10 S-Video output to VC500 input. You should get a garbled screen like my YouTube example instead of the blue screen. If so, post a sample here for further analysis.

---

Are all symptoms the same if you use the internal Pattern Generator instead of an external source?

You mentioned that the Monitor Output is garbled on your HDTV. What about when connected to VC500?

DataVideo TBC-3000 manual snip.jpg

Sort of similar to this post. Maybe. Possibly. But his Monitor Output was stable. Repairing a bad channel on DataVideo TBC-4000? (Changed my mind. Totally different.)



Last edited by msgohan; 01-17-2020 at 06:27 AM.
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  #4  
01-17-2020, 08:08 AM
OBNOXIUs OBNOXIUs is offline
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Ok tried the following things:
Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post
Hook up TBC-3000 S-Video output to DMR-ES10 input, and DMR-ES10 S-Video output to VC500 input. You should get a garbled screen like my YouTube example instead of the blue screen. If so, post a sample here for further analysis.
  • TBC-3000 -> ES10 -> VC500 (all S-Video): blue screen!
  • I checked S-video directly from the VCR, and that's capturing great on the VC500, so nothing wrong there it seems...
Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post
Are all symptoms the same if you use the internal Pattern Generator instead of an external source?

You mentioned that the Monitor Output is garbled on your HDTV. What about when connected to VC500?
  • monitor output -> VC500: blue screen and some noise (see Virtualdub screengrab attached)
  • monitor output to flatscreen: garbled signal (see Camcorder video attached: I don't change any inputs or signals, I just go into the menu of my VCR, and then start playing the tape...the flatscreen is changing color by itself...)
  • Internal patterns show nothing over S-Video
Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post
EDIT: I see from your post history you have a DMR-ES10. This should be useful to diagnose the issue, because the VC500 squelches bad input to BLUE SCREEN while the DMR-ES10 attempts to decode it.
I also have an ATI600 USB, will try that


Attached Files
File Type: mp4 VirtualDub2 - capture mode [] 2020-01-17 14-51-12.mp4 (2.52 MB, 2 downloads)
File Type: mkv TBC_monitor_out-00047-somesignal.mkv (34.87 MB, 6 downloads)

Last edited by OBNOXIUs; 01-17-2020 at 08:36 AM.
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  #5  
01-17-2020, 08:44 AM
hodgey hodgey is offline
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The monitor out should just be straight through bypassing the TBC (at least it is on mine), maybe there's a short somewhere?

Btw there is a registry setting to disable the blue screen on no signal for the VC500, but I don't know if it would be any help.
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  #6  
01-17-2020, 03:38 PM
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I've seen this sort of issue before. It's either
(1) power related
(2) s-video/composite related

Too many people try to force s-video or composite cables into TBCs/VCRs, and it can damage the units. If video gear does not want to easily accept a cable, then stop. Another cable is required. Force can create pressure that desolders contacts on boards.

Bad s-video or composite cables can also be to blame. And yes, the same cable may be fine elsewhere, but several variables can make it hate the device.

But it's usually power related.

Another power problem is that TBCs do not have fuses like other consumer items. Power noise/overage/underage will directly strike the chips/boards of the unit, not be filtered anywhere. These are pro units, and expect to be placed on power managed systems (UPS for home/office use). Bad power can damage a TBC if not filtered.

Sometimes excessive proc amp settings can mess with video signals. So be sure the proc amp settings are at unity/0.

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  #7  
01-17-2020, 05:20 PM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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Is this a satellite TV recording? The information in the Vertical Blanking Interval seen in the split-image flatscreen cam video looks similar to Zcooger's Nagravision YouTube videos.

I assume this is unrelated though, given that composite is normal to the cap card.

With nothing else connected besides S-Video output, the Pattern Generator function produces nothing on the flatscreen?
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  #8  
01-18-2020, 02:27 PM
OBNOXIUs OBNOXIUs is offline
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Making some progress with the ATI600 (screencapture attached)
virtualdubcrop.png

This it the first time something recognizable comes out of the S-Video output! Still not working as it should, but it's something. Most of the time though the image is garbled lines, but still, it's better than no signal. This is also basically how my monitor output looks...and that's pretty strange?
Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post
With nothing else connected besides S-Video output, the Pattern Generator function produces nothing on the flatscreen?
I saw a vertical white line moving along the screen from left to right, but after a while not seeing it again I suddenly saw a color pattern! Colors were off, but it was definitely there, I tried to capture it but then it went away..

Composite output still working perfectly, so I assume the TBC circuitry is intact. Also internal color patterns, I guess they aren't generated seperately for composite and S-Video out? But somehow the (timebase corrected) signal is 'damaged' on the S-Video out, and not on the composite output...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
I've seen this sort of issue before. It's either
(1) power related
(2) s-video/composite related
I did not yet force any cables, and if I can believe the previous owner of this unit, he never used the S-Video out. Although I don't use any UPS, I believe power is pretty stable here (belgium)? My adapter with its 1.7A should at least by delivering enough current to the TBC. I also tried different cables.

Do you have any idea why the monitor output is not working, lordsmurf? Shouldn't it bypass all the TBC circuitry? Now it basically looks similar to my S-Video output...

I have 4 dip switches inside that I could tinkle with


Attached Files
File Type: mp4 VirtualDub2 - capture mode [] 2020-01-17 15-41-13.mp4 (23.09 MB, 2 downloads)
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  #9  
01-18-2020, 03:25 PM
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Oh no ... did you get this from that shyster in Netherlands?

He used Marktplaats (that Craigslist-type marketplace site, native to Netherlands), not eBay/etc. I've had several discussion with some pros in EU in the past year, and that guy with the DataVideo TBC-1000/2000/3000/4000 units was an odd duck. Several of us noticed, or were alerted to the units by others. (I think you originally told me about the listing?) None of us got a good vibe from the guy.

He insisted on in-person pickup only. (Yeah, let me hop a plane real quick. )

Or bank draft, which was unreasonable for an unknown person with no credentials. Worse yet, he was pretty dumb when it came to bank draft, insisting on a draft method not available outside Europe or Middle East (IBAN). He insisted it was available in North America and Asia, but it is not.

I vaguely remember that you and I had a PM conversation, correct? And you traveled from Belgium to Netherlands to pick it up? And I don't know that you ever tested it, at least not last we spoke about it -- and that was weeks, maybe months after you picked it up?

He was verified as a know-nothing reseller by my contacts. He acquired the units cheaply from a local facility that closed down, and had the classic "pulled from working environment" nonsense (FYI, a total BS description, mealy-mouthed phrase that means untested, unknown if working correctly).

He was also somewhat rude, not friendly whatsoever. (Some of the others had worse descriptors. )

He sold a few individually, then flipped the rest to another limited-knowledge reseller, who discovered some units not working correctly (got burned on the deal), and then buyers from the 2nd reseller were all individuals ... and then we lost track of the units. Shadily, I got the impression that the 2nd reseller even sold the known-bad units as "working/tested".

To have seen that many TBC-2000/3000/4000 was extremely odd, and I cannot imagine it being a different person you acquired yours from.

For a second there, I thought this thread was about one of my units. That should never happen from one of mine! Looking again, our dealing was just for an ATI 600 USB card, not a TBC.

At this point, I'm willing to suggest power related isn't the problem. It's likely defective, and the board may need s-video/composite contacts to be re-soldered.

There's not many caps on a TBC-3000/4000 board, and would be unusual, but not impossible, for a cap to go bad, so another possibility.

The worst outcome, but possible, sadly even most likely, is the TBC was overheated too much, powered on too long, and some of the board chips are fried. I know a few members here have run into that with TBC-1000. Too many people leave TBCs powered on for too long. The board should have had heatsinks when designed (DataVideo design flaw), and units should be modded to add heatsinks if planned to use for extended periods. But still, chips get hot, need cooldown. Unlike CPUs, TBC chips don't throttle down to 1% usage, but emit full heat at all times.

You have to be really careful when buying video gear. You're not buying as much as gambling, if not getting the gear from somebody reputable like myself, TGrant, and a few others. You can get burned for €100s easily.

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  #10  
01-18-2020, 05:43 PM
hodgey hodgey is offline
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May be an idea to have a look inside, and check if the video signal is shorted somewhere or if there are any bad/blown capacitors eating up the signal. Monitor signal not working is especially odd since it should just be passed straight through.

Been thinking of recapping my own TBC-3000 as the capacitor brand used is some generic brand (Wendell) that doesn't seem to have the best reputation over at badcaps and it has some minor high-frequency noise on the input.
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  #11  
01-19-2020, 04:15 AM
OBNOXIUs OBNOXIUs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Oh no ... did you get this from that shyster in Netherlands?
yes that's the guy
Interesting story! He was pretty friendly to me actually, even tried to help me when I told him the S-video wasn't working...and he did send the unit to me...But yeah, definitely no testing, it was a risk.

I'm still believing the TBC is actually OK, but somehow the S-Video outputs are faulty...indeed maybe just bad contacts.

I will take a look inside, but I think I need an external (expert) eye to check if there's something wrong...It's such a pitty there's so little technical info about these units, no schematics etc.

*edit:btw. what is "too long" for a TBC to stay powered on? I must say I'm working in a pretty chilly place, not freezing, but no heating at least.
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  #12  
01-19-2020, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OBNOXIUs View Post
.It's such a pitty there's so little technical info about these units, no schematics etc.
DataVideo actually has some schematics, in their messy digital archives, but you need to find the right person to ask. To them, these are long-discontinued unsupported legacy devices, yet each still has NDA attached for "just because" reasoning. It's arcane, especially considering the chips needing to make a board are no longer fabbed. It only helps current owners repair existing TBCs now. The usual corporate stupidity that must be chewed through, find somebody on the inside with common sense to share. We have some TBC-1000 schematics for that reason.

Quote:
*edit:btw. what is "too long" for a TBC to stay powered on? I must say I'm working in a pretty chilly place, not freezing, but no heating at least.
Anything over 6 hours must be monitored.

The DataVideo units are using just metal shells, not aluminum, so heat is not really absorbed by the outer case, contrary to what some erroneously think. The FA units, and some Cypress, by contrast, have true aluminum casing.

Having metal is better than plastic (AVT-8710), where plastic units need a definite rest after 6 hours. Depending on temps, maybe 9-12 hours at most. But then also remember the DataVideos have no real vents, so external temp doesn't really affect internal. So you'd need to open it, or custom vent the case.

And since we're talking about modding, just mod it with heatsinks on the main chips. The TBC-4000 is a problem, however, no room for the 2nd board to have added sinks.

The DataVideo chips get hot. I mean so hot that, if you touch them, you may end up with 2nd/3rd degree burns. Even the Cypress chips are not that hot!

I must say, I prefer video work in winter. I purposely save much of my hobby work for the non-summer, when my computer can heat the room, no AC needed. In years past, different location, I actually cracked a window some. I could do an incredible amount of work in a short time, with no need to have cooldowns. (That was pre-health issues, too, years ago. )

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  #13  
01-19-2020, 04:59 PM
OBNOXIUs OBNOXIUs is offline
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are these faulty capacitors? those with the bursting top are sitting right in front of the monitor and S-Video outputs.
Channel A:channelA.jpg
Channel B:
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  #14  
01-19-2020, 05:13 PM
hodgey hodgey is offline
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Yeah definitely.

Aluminum electrolytic capacitors like these should have a flat top (though not bulging doesn't automatically mean they are good.) The 16V 470uF capacitors look pretty clearly bad due to bulging and a bit of leaking (crusty brown/orange stuff on top).
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