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-   -   Panasonic ES-10 ES-15 vs. Prime Image TBC/Freeze II? (http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-capture/10322-panasonic-es-10-a.html)

ChunkDaMan 02-03-2020 01:33 PM

Panasonic ES-10 ES-15 vs. Prime Image TBC/Freeze II?
 
Just a quickie question.
I'm aware the Prime Image TBC/Freeze II isn't a praised external TBC compared to the Datavideo TBC-1000 and the AVT-8710, but obviously the two external TBCs are expensive as iPhones. Looking around the forums here and at VideoHelp (even Reddit), they say the Panasonic ES-10/15 DVD recorder has a "TBC-ish passthrough" and can perform its sync job fine, though not good as the two godly TBCs.

I'm looking to [slowly] rank up my external TBC setup, does the Panasonic ES-10/15 perform a better external sync job than the TBC/Freeze II? Luckily my TBC/Freeze II is doing a good job (especially the sharpening settings). Thanks.

lordsmurf 02-04-2020 05:04 AM

You cannot compare these.

The ES10/15 is not a TBC. It especially does not act as frame TBC. It is a DVD recorder with a line TBC(ish) with passthrough abilities. The "ish" is because it's not entirely a line TBC either, as it has purposeful weaknesses to allow false errors, aka anti-copy signals (Macrovision, etc). The side effect is that natural errors can also permeate this barrier. It can balk and throw other issues, whether the tape is a homeshot video of Timmy playing T-ball or a Star Wars movie. ES10/15 also has negative side effects, namely posterization (color palette compression, visually obvious digital compression) and aggressive NR that does not 100% fully disengage even when NR is "off". The ES10/15 shines at anti-tearing and serious linear timing issues that can overrun a Panasonic or JVC line TBC. The net effect on those tapes is better video, even with the negative affects. Because, remember, restoration is about making it better, not perfect. And this combo is definitely better on those tearing and uber-unstable tapes. That's what it was always for, never as a TBC "replacement". It's an addition to a workflow, not an exchange.

The Prime Image is a rackmount broadcast TBC that expects non-consumer sources. It expects BetacamSP or U-matic, not VHS or Video8/Hi8. Those sources have different qualities, and the chaos of VHS will completely overrun this PI TBC. Since Hi8 is generally better quality sources ... maybe? But Video8/Hi8 usually drops massive frames, too.

DataVideo TBCs may be as expensive as iPhones, but in 2-3 years it'll still be as desired. Whereas that old iPhone can be worthless. TBCs don't have the same sort of devaluation as a car or phone, and is more like a pro camera lens.

In more recent years, the DVK+ES10/15 was discovered to be a good "poor man's TBC", but with drawbacks. Namely that the ES10/15 is no longer option, cannot be removed from the chain. But as a budget option, especially if you only have a handful of tapes, it works well enough. The DVK has decent frame TBC, but completely chokes on bad line-timed sources (as does the related TBC-5000). The Es10/15 has strong line abilities, but almost no frame performance. These complement one another.

ChunkDaMan 02-05-2020 02:31 PM

Thanks, LS!

I understand about the PI, but it's all I have at the moment. I'm sure you have tested many TBCs from the worst to the Datavideo over the years and can tell if one does better than the other. My JVC SR-MV45 is rigged to the PI, rigged to my AIW 9000, rigged to my Windows XP Pentium "capbox" (as I call it) and capping using VirtualDub. I've never lost a darn frame, especially for the recording time exceeding 6 hours. I will say that I have my timing resync settings set to "resampling" and the sync has been stable, even for the 6 hours. I'm sure I'm better off using the PI than no TBC of any kind and I'm also using it as my picture enhancer (sharpness and levels).


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