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  #21  
03-02-2020, 09:17 AM
hodgey hodgey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BW37 View Post
Just speculating, it looks like maybe the Rage Theater equipped VIVO cards were more common on your side of the pond. A majority of the eBay (US) listings for something similar are in the EU or UK. As with the AIW cards, none has a VIVO cable included. It appears they were mostly 3rd party cards (Sapphire, HIS, etc.). Also, I think there were a lot of "VIVO" cards made that did not have the theater chips. I had 2 of them back in the day, AGP X1600/1650's I think and neither had a theater chip.

Finding the right cable looks to be a similar obstacle as with the AIW cards. Have you used one for capture?

BW
Maybe they were. Seems some of them were used in pre-built systems as they have connectors to a front-panel module on the card, the one I got is one of these (9600 VIVO). I have not tested it yet, I don't have the right breakout cable, been planning to make one myself using the internal 4-pin connectors (same connectors used on audio cards), but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

Never seen a non- rage theater AIW/VIVO x1600. Some of the very old rage 128 cards use an ImpacTV2 chip, no idea who made it, and there was at least one late-model ones using the newer ATI Theater 650 chip used in the standalone AIW cards.

EDIT: Looks like the ImpacTV chps may have been ATI-made as well

Last edited by hodgey; 03-02-2020 at 09:30 AM.
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  #22  
03-03-2020, 11:54 AM
BW37 BW37 is online now
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" I have not tested it yet, I don't have the right breakout cable"

Dell HJ857 might be the cable you need?

https://itprice.com/dell/hj857.html

https://www.newegg.com/p/1DK-003B-00016

Getting off topic...

BW
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  #23  
03-04-2020, 03:11 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Originally Posted by Cortez View Post
Please don't do this to me
Yep, sometimes threads turn into an info overload.

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Very soon i cannot enter in my room because digitlization devices lying everywhere. . Actually this second workflow could be assembled. Having VCR and ES10 with DVK-100. So i can get two different capture cards (the Canopus NX and an ATI AIW).
Multiple capture workflows is never a bad thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BW37 View Post
Based on your location, you may have better luck finding a motherboard than I would in the US.
Yes, there are a lot of good Asrock AGP+SATA boards in Europe, which allow dual/quad core Intel (or AMD, but I far prefer to Intel, the CPUs run far cooler). The 4CoreDual are what I use. A good price for one of those boards, including 2gb+ RAM and the CPU, is about $100 average. Ditch the stock heatsink, get a Cooler Master Hyper 212.

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Originally Posted by ginopilotino View Post
Keep in mind that you have to get a tb santacruz sound card next to aiw. It will costs you over 100 euro for both.
I believe he already has the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz card. And $100 for both is decent average price.

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Originally Posted by hodgey View Post
Seems some of them were used in pre-built systems as they have connectors to a front-panel module on the card, the one I got is one of these (9600 VIVO). I have not tested it yet, I don't have the right breakout cable,
The non-AIW VIVO cards have always been confusing. I last played with a VIVO about 10 years ago. The only thing I remember about it is that it did not work as expected.

The early 7200/7500 AIW were also referred to as AIW VIVO, especially the PAL models.

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Originally Posted by Bogilein View Post
because they don't like the company or have made bad experiences with one of their products (ADVC300).
That is not correct. My experiences with Canopus far exceed a single product. I've been writing about various Canopus products for 20 years now. It is correct, currently at least, that I've never used that exact NX card. But nothing about the card is tempting, especially the requirement that Edius (payware) be used for capture. NLE capture is not recommended, due to resource overhead, tendency to drop frames, and other oddities can that creep in. I understand that you like that setup, but it will probably never get my recommendation.

Quote:
Another thing you should know, the card has a video out port which you could connect to a tv (s-video, composite). You could compare your captures (or editet captures) from the timeline or you could watch your video during the capture process on your tv.
I'm not sure if that's a neat feature, or pointless feature.
I generally like to stop/pause/rew when watching tv (bathroom, eat, answer phone, missed something, etc), and you cannot do that while capturing.

Quote:
and it has some jitter correction
Samples, please!

Quote:
Some notes to the much praised ATI AIW/600 cards. If you decide to use one of this cards you will need an external tbc!!! The ATI cards are well known to have problems with macrovision/false macrovision detection. If you don't believe use google. That's why the advise here is always use a vcr with tbc and an external tbc (expensive these days).
All capture cards need to use an external framesync TBC.
All capture cards can have problem with signal issues, including both natural errors (aka "false copy protection") and artificial video errors (anti-copy, including Macrovision).
This is not an ATI issue, it's an issue for everything digital acquisition device.

Quote:
I really would like to see that Lord Smurf would test the canopus nx & the Blackmagic Intensity (Shuttle) via HDMI capture vs the ATI cards to clarify if I'm wrong or there are good alternatives to the praised ati cards.
Only if I was loaned/given the card for testing, or could acquire it for my $50 gambling/testing per-item budget. I do think there are more decent alternatives for capture out there, hidden gems, but BM is not it, and Canopus is unlikely to be it, given what all is known. The BM has to much damning info out there, while the NX has rigid non-standard usage requirements that many of us do not wish to deal with (as video is already not-easy, do not wish to pile on more potential problems).

The only thing that would change my mind is if the card exhibited some sort of unique restoration ability. I'd like to see the supposed jitter correct in action.

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  #24  
03-04-2020, 04:16 AM
Cortez Cortez is offline
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Is this a good capture card? The original box contains the purple cable also. If not recommend can you describe the parameters please how should i search after that?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ATI-8500DV-...oAAOSw7FFeTf7o
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  #25  
03-04-2020, 04:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez View Post
Is this a good capture card? The original box contains the purple cable also. If not recommend can you describe the parameters please how should i search after that?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ATI-8500DV-...oAAOSw7FFeTf7o
I don't know. The auction pictures suck. Another typical eBay a-hole. I think the essential wires are missing. Not sure. All I see is a random card, some random CDs, and a dead squid of wires.

Do not buy it.

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  #26  
03-04-2020, 04:32 AM
Cortez Cortez is offline
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In first step can how can i filter the capture cards? I don't need graphics card for games. The name "All-In-Wonder" is identify this or should i check the plugs on the back of the card?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-ATI...oAAOSwfrleJyOq

One of the picture there are cables. The grey one has s-video if i see. Does it matter if the title NTSC mentioned and i live in Europe?
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  #27  
03-04-2020, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Cortez View Post
I don't need graphics card for games. The name "All-In-Wonder" is identify this
Games have nothing to do with it. In general, there is no such thing a "gamer card". Those are simple graphics cards with high specs (at the time). Every ATI claimed to be good at everything, it was marketing, and doesn't matter.

Focus on the AIW card. It is graphics + video capture. This is good, this is fine. The video part is high-end, ATI outdid themselves on the Theatre 100/Rage and 200 chips.

Build an XP system with AIW. I suggest a motherboards from Asrock that has SATA, and use a good Seagate 2tb SATA drive for the capture files. Use an IDE drive for the OS, depending on the board (which is what I do on my capture Asrocks).

Buy this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/372017479818
- DVI out for best quality viewing.
- No special cables needed.
- Get the basic ATI purple/domino breakout box (dongle). Search eBay for "ati purple".

Done.

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  #28  
03-04-2020, 05:08 AM
Cortez Cortez is offline
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Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Buy this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/372017479818
- DVI out for best quality viewing.
- No special cables needed.
- Get the basic ATI purple/domino breakout box (dongle). Search eBay for "ati purple".

Done.
"No special cables need" then search for the purple breakout box. Okay actually it is a box, not a cable

Does it matter if it 8500, 9000, 9600 or above? As i see all of them need some cables / box none of them have a direct S-Video input. The memory also not important if it 6, 32, 64 or 128MB. It doesn't need for capture just sent the video signal through and convert it to digital.

I also found here in the cabinet an audio card. It is good for "capturing" audio? I thought i could spare some money with it

-- merged --

All of that cards need thet purple box. Maybe can you suggest a card within Europe?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ATI-Radeon-All-in-Wonder-AIW-9800-SE-128MB-AGP-DVI-Graphics-109-95700-12-VINTAGE/153818223418

This one is very similar you linked. I clearly see the "Rage Theatre" chip in the middle. I found it multple times mentioned on the forum. This is what we need? This make the card so valuable, here the magic happens?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/All-in-Wonder-Radeon-First-Radeon/392711109158


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  #29  
03-04-2020, 06:24 AM
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The purple box/dongle/cable is not special. It's used by all AIW cards.

That 9800 card is probably fine, but just be aware of noise patterning that seems to exist on some later 9000 series cards. Some of the 9600 are guilty, and I believe some of the 9800 are as well. You can search past forum posts for combinations such as "herringbone" and "power line noise" and "AIW". The more basic 9000/9200 always seemed to be fine.

Rage Theatre aka Theatre 100, or Theatre 200, and the chips on these cards, the reason the cards are so good.

That other ATI AIW (7500?) with DVI is probably also fine.

The RAM is graphics, and doesn't matter too much. 32mb is fine, 64mb and above are better. The most it controls is digital preview tearing, not really essential.

s-video is on the purple box/dongle.

Creative/SoundBlaster audio is often tinny or pitchy, the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz is highly recommended for AIW builds.

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  #30  
03-04-2020, 04:32 PM
BW37 BW37 is online now
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It's a bit hard to search eBay EU from the US. Still, here is what looks like a useful AIW 9000 in Germany.

As lordsmurf said, there were/are some issues with some of the 9xxx series cards causing a "herringbone" pattern in captured video.
Here are a couple links about that:

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...rence-ati.html

Look closely for the faint moving diagonal lines, especially in the lighter parts of the image.

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...ld-look-too%29

You have to compare the fuzzy pictures in that last post to an unmodified 9xxx card. I believe the 9800 you linked above is one of those questionable designs. Here's a picture of a possibly "bad" 9800:
9800.jpg

Note the row of 5 capacitors and 2 coils below the tuner box. The fix was to reorient the 2 coils without disconnecting them or otherwise ruining the card. I'd prefer not to try this myself. I've seen this design on 9000's, 9700's, and 9800's. There are 9000's and 9700's (at least) that use a different design like the one lordsmurf linked and the one in Germany I linked. I have a 9700 that is a different design and I haven't noticed any herringbone patterns but I haven't done that much capture with it yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez View Post
"No special cables need" then search for the purple breakout box. Okay actually it is a box, not a cable
I guess "special" is in the eye of the beholder. They are readily available so less "special" that most of the others . Special or not, you will absolutely need the purple input "cable" with the "box" on the end with the 4 input connections which are composite, s-video, R-audio, and L-audio. You will use the s-video only if you plug the audio directly into the sound card. (See previous discussion...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez View Post
Does it matter if it 8500, 9000, 9600 or above? As i see all of them need some cables / box none of them have a direct S-Video input. The memory also not important if it 6, 32, 64 or 128MB. It doesn't need for capture just sent the video signal through and convert it to digital.
For capture, 7xxx and 8xxx cards use the original Rage Theater (100), 9xxx use the Theater 200 which is considered slightly superior. All 9xxx cards will have at least 64MB memory so also a reason to get one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez View Post
I also found here in the cabinet an audio card. It is good for "capturing" audio? I thought i could spare some money with it
The Audigy will work for capture but the TB Santa Cruz is preferred by most. I tried my old Audigy and found the sound recorded to be OK, but it is much more susceptible to random RF noises than the Santa Cruz. Santa Cruz preferred...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez View Post
All of that cards need thet purple box. Maybe can you suggest a card within Europe?
See above.

Quote:
Maybe not a good choice??? See above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez View Post
This one is very similar you linked. I clearly see the "Rage Theatre" chip in the middle. I found it multple times mentioned on the forum. This is what we need? This make the card so valuable, here the magic happens?
Yes, Rage Theater (100) good, Theater 200 better.
Quote:
OK: Rage Theater (100), 32 or 64 MB, not sure.

BW


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