VC500 and VirtualDub audio bug?

[mlesic]

In lordsmurfs virtualdub and all other newer virtualdubs I can't get audio control with volume meter. I get volume bars at botom, but no volume and balance windows. Also, no conection with windows device in record devices - changing volume does nothing. Only in virtualdub mod version from lordsmurf I get proper volume meter window with bars jumping (vol and balance are grey), and also in windows rec device gren bar jumping and accepts my vol control lowering to 50-75%. Is that bug in virtualdub new versions? Could windows xp solve problem (driver issue?) I tried driver from cd, and new from diamond web.

Is windows xp better for video capture with vc500?
Now i have win7x64, 4GB RAM, amd athlon 5200+, ssd 125gb + wd 1tb blue.

edit: I tried with xp - no luck. Cant lower volume...

[sanlyn]

Check the following:

64-bit controls not allowed. use 32-bit VirtualDub, 32-bit compressors and filters, and 32-bit capture drivers. Use all 32-bit, whether you are using 64-bit or 32-bit Windows. 32-bit components work just as well in 64-bit and 32-bit Windows.

With the VC500, audio is connected to the audio input sockets on the VC500's input dongle. Check that you have indicated the proper audio input in Virtualdub device settings.

Capture volume is controlled through the Windows mixer controls for your audio card. To access the mixer panel, click on the top menu "'Audio" item, then choose "Windows mixer...".

[mlesic]

Ok. I will try install win 7 x86. And all x86. Drivers for sound and vc500 are probably x64. Virtualdub, filters, huffyuv are x86

[sanlyn]

Yes, be consistent. Many components are not available in 64-bit, so stay with 32-bit for now. Remember that 32-bit apps and 64-bit apps operate in different environments that cannot "see" the other's processes.

An updated settings guide for Virtualdub capture (VDub 1.9.11 and later), including suggestions for USB and non-USB capture setups: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...-settings.html

[mlesic]

Today I tried winxp x86 with 32bit driver and all but didnt work. I will try with win7 32bit. Now I can capture ok. Volume is up to -6db. Not touching 0db. But some tapes go through 0db...some are too quiet. So vol control is desirable option. I use x64 windows because 4gb ram. Works ok for years. This vhs digitalization is not so simple as I tought. Yesterday I found that one audio wire is not working...changed cable and now sound is better. A lot of simple tweaks...
But important is that I can get my VHS memories to life.

X86 win 7 with all 32bit is same. No volume control..

[sanlyn]

With current versions of Virtualdub, audio control during capture uses the Windows audio mixer. There is no separate "volume control". Are you using the Windows mixer dialog as described in Post #3? (http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-capture/8293-vc500-virtualdub-audio.html#post51418)

With the VC500 and most other capture cards:

Quote:

Originally Posted by sanlyn

Capture volume is controlled through the Windows mixer controls for your audio card. To access the mixer panel, click on the top menu "'Audio" item, then choose "Windows mixer...".

[mlesic]

Yes. I use windows controls. But changing change nothing. Also i dont see green bars indicate in windows that there is sound. Like when i use virtualdub mod - controls in windows change and i get green bars up and down...like on speakers...

What is virtualdub mod difference? It uses old driver not.directshow? Is capture quality same as regular vdub? Maybe to use all the time mod version or just for worste vhs?

[sanlyn]

If audio works as you want it to in VirtualDubMod but not in current VirtualDub, then use VirtualdubMod. I still use it to capture on a very old machine. The capture quality depends on the card and other elements in the capture chain, not on the version of Virtualdub. The quality is the same. At the moment I don't have that old PC mounted and can't look at the VirtualdubMod interface dialogs now, but I used it for several years with no problems and an ATI 7500 AIW AGP card (but it doesn't use DirectShow). You could also use VirtualdubMPEG (has DirectShow), but it looks like current Virtualdub and has no separate volume control in the interface -- it uses the Windows mixer.

VC500 installs drivers as EZGrabber, which also has a config window. You might be able to set up its volume control separately, leave it as is, but turn off EZgrabber and use Virtualdub to capture.

I've never had a volume problem with the VC500. Set your audio source for the VC500's audio input. You shiould be able to control volume withe Windows mixer if you use the corfrect Line In device setting. Setting "speaker voluime" in the mixer will not control the audio input, only the output.

[EDIT] From other posts concerning the VC500, there is no volume control ability in its device drivers. There is an "FMGain" registry entry in Windows, but experience shows that adjusting it has no effect. If you have unusual volume with a particular source, the problem is likely in the source. Volume levels often vary with different tapes and are adjusted after capture when necessary. As far as other users are concerned, no one has complained about volume levels with the VC500. It seems to have a built-in but non-adjustable volume limiter, as do a few other cards. Do you have any clipping problems with the audio?

[mlesic]

Ive selected good volume mixer in windows. Audio line in. Not sppeaker master volume. I can record audio and mostly is strong, loud but ok. Dont pass through 0db. But sometimes goes throuh and get distorted. Just loud noise until i reset audio line (select volume meter on/off). Like vc500 adjusts by itself but selected is not perfect... So I think always is 100 percent.. So I monitor volume under capture window and react if something goes wrong. I will try with mod version for bad tapes. Or some tapes are with different volume levels.

-- merged --

Now I consider vdub mod version. Is there any big diffrenece? I see there is no inserted frames. With regular vdub i didnt get any droped frames, never. But get inserted frames here and there. If tape is bad or shaken while recording. Im trying to get easy capture with ok quality...other words max quality. Dont want to vdub ruin video or audio with sincronizations etc. I capture in fragments 5-10min and watch for inserted frames, audio problems. Dont want to redo all capture because I ticked some option that is wrong..

[lordsmurf]

I need to see a screencap of this, in places where you say it works.

[mlesic]

Now works ok after I changed audio cable. No control over audio but it is ok. No need to adjust audio levels. Just contrast and bringtnes..

[ELinder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sanlyn

[EDIT] From other posts concerning the VC500, there is no volume control ability in its device drivers. There is an "FMGain" registry entry in Windows, but experience shows that adjusting it has no effect. If you have unusual volume with a particular source, the problem is likely in the source. Volume levels often vary with different tapes and are adjusted after capture when necessary. As far as other users are concerned, no one has complained about volume levels with the VC500. It seems to have a built-in but non-adjustable volume limiter, as do a few other cards. Do you have any clipping problems with the audio?

I'm reviving this thread as I just acquired a VC500 and I'm also not able to adjust the input volume level in Windows Mixer. Is this really not possible? I'm running Windows 10, have the Win10 drivers installed, and can capture video and audio. EZGrabber and Virtualdub let me change the video inputs and pro camp settings properly. The only problem is that the audio level is too high, occasionally maxing out the audio level graph and I'm getting some distortion.

Is it possible that I have a version that has a problem? I've seen that there have been multiple revisions of this unit over the years, but I have no idea how to tell what version I have. It was new in box, but no idea how old the box was, nor is there a rev number on the unit label.

Erich

[jwillis84]

For what its worth.

I recall a thread a while ago about "missing" Sound Mixer control for a capture device.

The solution to that problem was a custom Registry file that when merged added the control back into the settings for the sound mixer and then they could control the volume of the device.

The problem occurred after "removing" a different capture device which seemed to remove too much from the registry.

If you have never removed a different capture device from your system.. this might not be the solution you seek.

[hodgey]

I have been looking for a way to do it as well, but it does not seem like the windows drivers have any way of adjusting the audio even though the chip itself seems to support it. There doesn't seem to be a registry setting that works for it either unlike on empia cards (ATI 600, original ezcap etc.) As with most capture cards the drivers and software seem to be rather lazily written. Volume adjustment is possible on linux though I believe.

I've resorted to using headphone outputs (i.e on Vidoe8 cameras or the NV-HS1000) that have volume controls or capturing audio with an audio card instead because of this.

[jwillis84]

VC500 (Conexant Polaris Video Capture)

Here's a thought, try Crossbar Thingy or VirtualDub FilterMod

Crossbar Thing will pop up the DirectX Filter (control panels) for adjusting the device parameters which VirtualDub may not connect to or expose. It can remain open while VirtualDub is running.. they share access to the capture device at the same time.

VirtualDub FIlterMod has been reported to work with some capture devices the usual version of VirtualDub doesn't work with.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwillis84

VirtualDub FIlterMod has been reported to work with some capture devices the usual version of VirtualDub doesn't work with.

Really? News to me. Interesting. Must remember that.

OBS keeps getting mentioned at VH, but I've not had time to test it. I'm always wary of software that makes big promises. The biggest promises are usually the biggest letdowns.

[ELinder]

Crossbar Thing will let me change the VC500's video input to S-video in and also the video procamp settings, but there is no control for audio levels. In this case I'm not sure how Virtualdub FilterMod can help since even Windows Mixer settings are not affecting the audio in levels.

Are there any USB capture devices that definitely do allow audio input level control under Windows 10?

Erich

[jwillis84]

OBS works on Vista or above, requires at least DirectX10 if I recall... minor requirement for most people.

Empia capture dongles have a classic problem with Sound capture.

That is the devices with both video and sound capture chips, must be registered in windows as (Compound USB) devices, which means they have to be registered as (Two) devices, or only one function will be available.

For some reason the Empia devices very very often register only the Video Capture chip on the single USB connection and no Sound capture chip is registered.. so Windows does not acknowledge it has a sound capture device and doesn't enumerate one for it in the Windows Sound Mixer.

Short story is.. windows (looses) its usb.inf file for handling USB Compound devices. It seems to get moved out of the C:\windows\inf directory or replaced with a version that cannot support USB compound devices. A strong suspect is a poorly written USB dongle driver replaced the usb.inf file with its custom version when its device driver was installed.. and even if you later remove it.. it leaves that copy behind.

Sfc /scannow (will not) restore the original out of box Windows/inf/usb.inf file. Sfc.exe only tracks about 1016 files, the usb.inf file is not one of them even though it comes with Windows.. a suspicion since this problem has lingered from XP to Vista to Windows 7 to Windows 8 to Windows 10.. is that when USB 1.x was updated to USB 2.x support way back in XP SP2 days.. Microsoft never updated the sfc.exe list.. and when that got updated for Vista it was left off and propagated forward like that.

Basically, you need to find a copy of the usb.inf file which supports Compound devices and put that back.. or restore it.

I have done this many times with Empia capture dongles, typically the symptom is it will capture video, will not capture audio and there is no Windows Sound Mixer control for the audio capture input. You open Device Manager and go to the Sound devices and there is no device driver loaded for the Empia sound device.. but there is a device driver loaded for the video capture device.

Once the usb.inf with Compound support is restored, uninstall the drivers for the device and unplug and replug and it will enumerate two separate device drivers for the one device, one for video, one for audio and all is right with the world. Or you can "force" a device driver install by right clicking the top of the Tree and do the manual thing for discovery.

Another way to confirm this problem is to take the USB dongle to another Computer, preferably one that has never had a different capture device with audio and sound capture installed.. and plug it in and try windows movie maker or something simple like that to see if everything is working.. then you know the usb.inf file on your main system is corrupted or has been replaced.

A more advanced way is to use GraphEdit to list all the "active and available filters" on your DirectX system. It will only list the ones for which a device driver is loaded and that points in the same direction. The USB bus is not being shared between the two devices at the end of that "String" we call a USB cord as a Compound device.

This really catches mostly people who insert and remove lots of capture devices on their USB bus.. you never know when you catch a usb.inf problem.

[lordsmurf]

To me, this is just another reason to dislike the VC500.

The ATI 600 USB has audio levels manually controlled in the registry, and that's really the only "non-audio controlled" issue I run into. Set it once, and forget it (unless you unplug the card, then at least verify everything is still set). Some of the ATI 600 USB "clones" have audio controls in various places, due to using the generic eMPIA drivers instead of ATI custom drivers. ATI didn't really think this through. However a few clones still need the quick registry hack.

Several cards have no controls whatsoever, but the values are quality enough (50% input volume) that it doesn't really matter.

Most capture cards have issues with WinVista/7/8/10 audio, not just USB. It's MS fault, they screwed up how audio had been working for the "capture era" of late 90s and early/mid 2000s.

But the VC500, at least yours, must be pretty screwed up to not even work in WinXP. That's generally the safest OS for video capture.

[jwillis84]

The one safe guard that sometimes saves you from the usb.inf problems is - System Restore

If its left on, or turned on - depending on the Windows version

Then when a hardware device driver is installed, it takes a registry and driver inventory 'snapshot' before allowing a device driver installer to run.

If you have not deleted or wiped those system restores.. (sometimes people do delete them) to save space, or other reasons.

You can "choose" to rollback a System Restore to a period [before] the rogue poorly written capture device was ever installed.. and then install your brand new fresh VC500 on a version of your system before the usb.inf got hijacked.

System Restore can be annoying.. but if you do lots of plug and pray with lots of different USB hardware, it can be a life saver if you use it.

Its usually faster than a full system backup, or full system re-install.

I always wanted to do a video or podcast or something demonstrating that, and how to fix it.. one Sunday I got so mad.. and forums all over the Internet elucidated the problem.. but no one had a solution.. so I hammered one out over the entire day and nailed that problem good.. it made me really mad.