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  #1  
03-29-2020, 08:57 PM
retractOffer retractOffer is offline
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I am using the Sony CCD-TRV108 camcorder (TBC and DNR on). The recorded audio has a bit of crackling as you can hear here. I know the tape is fine because what Costco transferred sounds just fine. Take a listen here.
1) Can I fix this is Virtualdub at the time of capture or is it done afterward in another program?
2) The camcorder has a 3.5mm A/V out which I am using for audio. Video is connected to the S_Video port. Could this be the reason? Do composite audio ports provide better audio?
Thanks
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  #2  
03-30-2020, 04:41 AM
retractOffer retractOffer is offline
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3) what's the difference between 'Master Input Mix' and 'Pin Line Input Mix'? What should each slider be set to? According to this article, one (or both) of these sliders must be set to ~75% to prevent audio distortion/crackling. I am not sure which one!

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  #3  
03-30-2020, 07:57 AM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
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The s-video port does NOT provide audio; you still get audio from the (usually if stereo) red and white audio ports.
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  #4  
03-30-2020, 01:13 PM
traal traal is offline
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I think it's crosstalk between the audio and video lines, which are not shielded from each other in that tiny 3.5mm cable. Maybe try plugging the camcorder into an electrical outlet during capture and see if the audio improves.
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  #5  
03-30-2020, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpalomaki View Post
The s-video port does NOT provide audio; you still get audio from the (usually if stereo) red and white audio ports.
I am aware of that.
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03-30-2020, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by traal View Post
I think it's crosstalk between the audio and video lines, which are not shielded from each other in that tiny 3.5mm cable. Maybe try plugging the camcorder into an electrical outlet during capture and see if the audio improves.
The camcorder is plugged into the wall!
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  #7  
03-30-2020, 04:03 PM
retractOffer retractOffer is offline
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Here is the picture for question 3 attached.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg Capture.JPG (24.2 KB, 16 downloads)
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  #8  
03-30-2020, 06:14 PM
BW37 BW37 is offline
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What is the rest of your "workflow"? Knowing more about the total system you are using for capture will help in providing assistance.

In particular, what is your capture device? Is it a USB device? Are you capturing sound through that device or are you connecting the audio through a sound card or similar? I think that the screen you are asking about is going to be specific to one or both of these.

BW
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03-30-2020, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by traal View Post
I think it's crosstalk between the audio and video lines, which are not shielded from each other in that tiny 3.5mm cable. Maybe try plugging the camcorder into an electrical outlet during capture and see if the audio improves.
does getting a 3.5mm to 2-male RCA cable better the situation? The current cable is a 3-male RCA from which I am not using the red one.
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03-30-2020, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BW37 View Post
What is the rest of your "workflow"? Knowing more about the total system you are using for capture will help in providing assistance.

In particular, what is your capture device? Is it a USB device? Are you capturing sound through that device or are you connecting the audio through a sound card or similar? I think that the screen you are asking about is going to be specific to one or both of these.

BW
The capture device is Tevion ATI 600 USB clone (bought from @lordsmurf). The sound and video are both being captured through this device.

Virtualdub settings:
Video:
Overlay
Compression: Lagarith Lossless Codec

Audio:
PCM 48kHz stereo 16-bit
No compression

Capture>Capture timing options:
General options: both checked
Resync mode: sync audio to video
Correct video timing checked
Automatically disable resync checked
Audio latency determination: Automatic checked with default value of 30
DirectShow options: none checked
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  #11  
03-31-2020, 12:56 AM
BW37 BW37 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retractOffer View Post
does getting a 3.5mm to 2-male RCA cable better the situation? The current cable is a 3-male RCA from which I am not using the red one.
I think traal is close in saying video/audio crosstalk, but it's more likely a direct composite video connection to an audio input on the Tevion.

Your camcorder has mono not stereo audio (manual here) so it came with a 2 plug AV cable, 1 plug for audio (black) and one for composite video (yellow). Here's the page from the manual:
mono-av-hook-up.jpg

If a 3 RCA plug cable can work (and I think it can), you may just need to change which single RCA cable is plugged into one of the audio inputs of the Tevion unit. You want nothing plugged into the yellow input and just one of the three RCA connectors (the white I think) plugged into one of the audio (white?) inputs of the Tevion. You don't want the composite video connected at all, only the separate s-video cable. Set the audio capture format to mono in virtualDub.

Or you may need a 2 RCA plug cable. The 4 connections on the 3 RCA cable may not line up properly with the 3 contacts in the camcorder and there may always be an crossed connection at the camcorder that combines the video with one of the audio lines. Or it might mess up the ground. I can't say. Maybe someone else knows and will comment.

If the 3 RCA plug cable can't be made to work, then maybe a typical 2 channel stereo cable will work. I don't know if the 3.5mm plug configuration will be compatible. The key is that the shield be in the same place on the 3.5mm end. I could not find a Sony mono AV cable pinout, but poking around here leads me to believe that a stereo audio cable should work. One of the RCA plugs would be the mono audio and one the composite video.

Note also the information at the bottom on hooking to a stereo TV. That might be useful for connecting to the 600.

BW


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  #12  
03-31-2020, 02:21 AM
retractOffer retractOffer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BW37 View Post
I think traal is close in saying video/audio crosstalk, but it's more likely a direct composite video connection to an audio input on the Tevion.

Your camcorder has mono not stereo audio (manual here) so it came with a 2 plug AV cable, 1 plug for audio (black) and one for composite video (yellow). Here's the page from the manual:
Attachment 11538

If a 3 RCA plug cable can work (and I think it can), you may just need to change which single RCA cable is plugged into one of the audio inputs of the Tevion unit. You want nothing plugged into the yellow input and just one of the three RCA connectors (the white I think) plugged into one of the audio (white?) inputs of the Tevion. You don't want the composite video connected at all, only the separate s-video cable. Set the audio capture format to mono in virtualDub.

Or you may need a 2 RCA plug cable. The 4 connections on the 3 RCA cable may not line up properly with the 3 contacts in the camcorder and there may always be an crossed connection at the camcorder that combines the video with one of the audio lines. Or it might mess up the ground. I can't say. Maybe someone else knows and will comment.

If the 3 RCA plug cable can't be made to work, then maybe a typical 2 channel stereo cable will work. I don't know if the 3.5mm plug configuration will be compatible. The key is that the shield be in the same place on the 3.5mm end. I could not find a Sony mono AV cable pinout, but poking around here leads me to believe that a stereo audio cable should work. One of the RCA plugs would be the mono audio and one the composite video.

Note also the information at the bottom on hooking to a stereo TV. That might be useful for connecting to the 600.

BW
Thank you for your thorough response. The sony camcorder I purchased from eBay is not the same as the one used to record the videos. The original camcorder was also Sony, but I am not sure if it recorded in stereo or not (bought ~1990). Did Sony have a stereo camcorder back then? Is there a way for me to know the tapes (that are analog) were recorded in stereo?
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  #13  
03-31-2020, 03:43 AM
hodgey hodgey is online now
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There could also be an issue with the camcorder you're using. Seeing some distortion on the video in your first sample (although it's a bit hard to spot as you uploaded an interlaced clip as progressive). The video and audio is stored together on 8mm tapes, so if there's image distortion there's often audio distortion too. Maybe the issue in your other thread is related

That said the image distortion does remind me a bit about what I got when using a Hi8 camera with a dodgy power supply that came with a camcorder i bought off ebay. It caused a similar type of noise, though I don't remember it causing audio issues. When I opened it up the soldering/assembly job looked really dodgy. Swapping power adapter fixed the issue.

Sony did make stereo 8mm camcorders bacik then, though outside of some older professional units I think it was mostly reserved to the more top of the line Hi8 cameras, not normal 8mm, and they didn't always have the best stereo separation anyhow. I'm not sure if there's an easy way to find out from the tape with the camcorder you have. You could try to listen to the transfers you had done for you or load up the audio from them in audacity to see if it looks like stereo. (That said can't say 100% for sure they used a stereo camcorder either.) I know the 8mm VCRs have a light that tells whether a tape is in stereo, but I'm not sure the camcorders do.
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03-31-2020, 05:01 PM
BW37 BW37 is offline
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I can't add much than hodgey already has other than to say that Sony did make stereo Hi8 camcorders in 1990. The CCD-V101 is one from that era. It might be that the early Hi8's were some of the first 8mm camcorders with stereo just because they were probably mostly high end models at introduction. At some point both Video8 and Hi8 were made with stereo. Whether the stereo sound was/is notably better or different that mono is an unknown, but given the lack of physical separation of the stereo mics there's probably not much difference.

BW
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  #15  
04-01-2020, 03:10 AM
latreche34 latreche34 is online now
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I believe most camcorders back then that had mono built in microphone did provide a stereo 3.5mm input jack for an external stereo microphone and a stereo line in if the camcorder has the VCR option. The only way to find out if the tape is stereo is to use a camcorder with stereo audio line out unfortunately, It is always good to ask this kind of questions before buying the hardware.
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  #16  
04-01-2020, 06:23 PM
retractOffer retractOffer is offline
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Thank you for your replies. I managed to find the model number of the original camcorder. It was Sony CCD-TR5 or TR55. I can't seem to find online whether these recorded mono or stereo. If anyone can chime in, let me know.
Attached is a photo of the output ports on the TR5.


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File Type: jpg s-l1600.jpg (39.8 KB, 10 downloads)

Last edited by retractOffer; 04-01-2020 at 07:17 PM.
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  #17  
04-01-2020, 09:26 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is online now
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That's a mono output camcorder.
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  #18  
04-02-2020, 07:24 AM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
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The manual for the CCD-TR55. It is mono.
https://www.sony.com/electronics/sup...d-tr55/manuals

Video8 sound system was compatible for both stereo and mono. It achieves this by using a scheme similar to FM broadcast; i.e., recording a mono (L+R) signal all Video8 camcorders can read, and a difference (L-R) signal that stereo camcorders could use to recreate the left and right channel sound for stereo recordings.
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  #19  
04-03-2020, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retractOffer View Post
3) what's the difference between 'Master Input Mix' and 'Pin Line Input Mix'? What should each slider be set to? According to this article, one (or both) of these sliders must be set to ~75% to prevent audio distortion/crackling. I am not sure which one!
any ideas what these two sliders should be set to and how they differ?
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  #20  
04-03-2020, 10:59 PM
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