Quantcast Right XP drivers for ATI AIW 9000 and AIW X800? - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
05-31-2020, 11:24 AM
MrGlasspoole MrGlasspoole is offline
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Hi,

i did build two PCs and wonder how you install the drivers.
Do you install the complete package or just the drivers?

First machine is:
ASRock P4i65G
Pentium 4 HT 3.0E Prescott
ATI AIW 9000 (AGP)

I guess the right driver is?:
ATI All In Wonder Hacks, Drivers, Codecs and MMC

Second machine:
Gigabyte GA-MA78G-DS3H REV:2.0
Athlon II X4 605e
ATI AIW Radeon X800 (PCIe)
Blackmagic Design Intensity Pro (PCIe)

Here I'm not sure what to do because the board has an onboard Radeon HD 3200.

I did install the latest chipset driver:
https://www.amd.com/en/support/chips...-chipsets/780g

The latest "Realtek Gigabit LAN Driver v5.836" for the 8111C and the latest "AMD Catalyst Software Suite 14.4":
https://www.amd.com/en/support/graph...ti-radeon-3200

I did install only "Display Driver" and "HDMI Audio Driver" and not CCC because i think i need the old one
that comes with the Radeon X800 drivers?

The funny thing is that Windows is telling me that there is no VGA driver installed.
It also wants to install a older Realtek LAN Driver and another AMD driver.

This is what Windows update is showing:
https://www.catalog.update.microsoft...4-b08fed7daa5b
https://www.catalog.update.microsoft...6-e6f5d01d103b
https://www.catalog.update.microsoft...a-580af70f4973

And here is a 10-2_legacy_xp32-64_wdm and a 10-2_legacy_xp32-64_dd_ccc:
ATI All In Wonder Hacks, Drivers, Codecs and MMC

Is the first one just the driver and the second one the Catalyst Control Center?
Do i need both?
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  #2  
05-31-2020, 12:48 PM
BW37 BW37 is offline
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First and foremost, you need to disconnect your Windows XP systems from the internet. Windows XP has not been safe to use online for a long time. You need to download things you need (even SP2 and any patches from Microsoft) onto a separate machine and then move them to your XP machines using external drives. You should not be using Microsoft Update on an XP machine.

On your AGP system with the 9000, those drivers should work. Minimum install would be the display driver and the "multimedia drivers". This is all you will need (for the AIW) to capture using virtualDub. If you want to use MMC to capture MPEG-2 then you need to install some of MMC, at least the TV application.

On your PCIe system you should probably "uninstall" the display drivers that Windows installed automatically before continuing as described below. Sometimes you may need to run the ATI uninstaller (AtiCimUn.exe) a couple times to make sure it cleans out the "junk" ATI drivers that got installed automatically. I would do this before changing things in the BIOS as suggested below. Once Windows is using the generic VGA drivers (you can check in devicemanager) you are set to install the correct ATI drivers. The display will likely be low resolution. That's a good sign.

Next you will need to go into the bios and change the "default" or primary graphics to the PCIe card. For the AIW to work it must be the primary display adapter. By default the BIOS will be set to use the on board graphics and ignore the PCIe card. Once you change the bios setting you will have to hook up your monitor to the PCIe card for the reboot. Only when this is done and you are getting a display through the PCIe card can you try to install the drivers for the PCIe card. The drivers you linked should work for the X800. Again, only the display and multimedia drivers are needed for virtualDub use.

Hope that gets you going.

BW
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  #3  
05-31-2020, 03:26 PM
MrGlasspoole MrGlasspoole is offline
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Thanks, but no need to worry about my security
I'm running multiple machines (~15) still some DOS, W95, W98 and XP.
I have a pfSense Firewall and normally XP is blocked.
I do the updates with WSUS Offline and just make a quick check if something is missing.

XP did not install the driver. Automatic updates is the first thing i turn off after a installation.
I did install the AMD Catalyst Software Suite 14.4 and XP is (was) telling me there is no graphics driver installed.

But after your post i went to the AMD Catalyst Install Manager to uninstall it.
For whatever reason there was no display driver in the list to uninstall. So i did install it a second time and
this time "Driver has not passed Windows logo testing error" came up. Sure I did install anyway and now
the HD 3200 has its driver.

Only funny thing is that i have 2 cm black borders around the screen. Its a 1080p IPS and the graphics setting is also 1080p. No matter if i use HDMI or DVI->HDMI connection.
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  #4  
05-31-2020, 04:43 PM
BW37 BW37 is offline
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Good to know you are well aware of the security issues with XP. Sorry if I over reacted.

Also, I failed to answer one of your questions:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGlasspoole View Post
And here is a 10-2_legacy_xp32-64_wdm and a 10-2_legacy_xp32-64_dd_ccc:
ATI All In Wonder Hacks, Drivers, Codecs and MMC

Is the first one just the driver and the second one the Catalyst Control Center?
Do i need both?
The "_ccc" file includes the display driver and Catalyst Control Center.
The "_WDM" file includes the multimedia (WDM) driver.

Install the display driver first and CCC optionally, then the WDM driver.
The HD 3200 drivers may make a mess of things, I'm not sure. But for the capture functions of an AIW to work it must be the primary display at least, maybe the only display, I'm not sure.

Let us know how it goes from here.

BW
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  #5  
06-06-2020, 09:03 PM
MrGlasspoole MrGlasspoole is offline
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I will get the cards this week. Got both for ~$35 and since i had enough parts in my hodgepodge for
the 2 PCs (AGB and PCIe) i thought i try it.

Only thing i just realized is that non of my VCRs are in your best VCR list.
The thing is here in germany they are traded as the best S-VHS machines.
I have: HR-S4700EG, HR-S5800EG, 2x HR-S9500EH, 2x DMR-ES10, DMR-EH675

Do i still need a VCR with TBC if i put a DMR in front?

Also in the german forums they say its best to play the tape with the machine it was recorded.
I don't see this statement here at DigitalFAQ.

-- merged --

I started with the ATI AIW 9000 (AGP) and used the 180-V01084-100 CD.

I did only select "multimedia drivers".
There is nothing to select or deselect the card drivers. So i thought they get installed anyways.
But XP is still using ALL-IN-WONDER 9000 (Microsoft Corporation) drivers.

What I'm missing

-- merged --

Found this thread:
Drivers for ATI All-in-Wonder 9000 Pro not installing correctly?

And with the 180_G01445_200 CD it works.

But what happened during installation was:
ATI CIM Application Launcher Module has encountered a problem and needs to close.
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  #6  
06-06-2020, 11:00 PM
BW37 BW37 is offline
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I think I'd stick with the 180-V01084-100 package for the 9000.

On that same thread you linked, read posts #16 and #20.

Also reread my post above about using AtiCimUn.exe to remove all the old junk Windows and Catalyst installer have installed for anything "ATI".

Once you have Windows starting with only the generic VGA driver don't let it install anything automatically. Then you should be able set to try again to install the 180-V01084-100 package, either from a CD or directly from the files copied from the CD to a directory. You can run everything by running atisetup.exe from the CD root (or the directory on your HD) or you can dig deeper and manually run only the display driver installation and then the WDM installation.

If you can't get Windows NOT to install it's preferred driver you could try to uninstall and then "update" the display driver from "Device manager". The driver you would want to install would be in the following directory:

CD root\install\Driver\2KXP_INF\CX_13023.inf

Make sure you reboot the system after the display driver installation and confirm that the correct drivers have been installed. The display driver version for 180-V01084-100 is 6.14.10.6404 (The WDM version for 180-V01084-100 is 6.14.10.6227)

If you want to try the 180_G01445_200 driver set I'd do the same thing: uninstall everything back to the generic VGA drivers and then start the installation from the CD.

BW
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  #7  
06-07-2020, 01:44 PM
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10-2_legacy_xp32-64_wdm
10-2_legacy_xp32-64_dd_ccc

Those are terrible for PCI/AGP cards, and required for PCIe (and also a reason why I dislike the PCIe).

For graphics, I don't have an issue with the MS drivers, but most will be replaced when installing from the ATI CDs.

4700/5800/9500 should be fine, relying on the ES10/15 for line TBC(ish). Just realize the ES10/15 has some artifacts that are not present on recommended VCRs (with line TBCs). It's a budget setup.

You still need frame TBC, line alone doesn't work.
- line cleans the image
- frame cleans the signal.
You need both functions for quality capture.

This install sounds like a mess, and I'm getting confused by trying to troubleshoot two systems at once. (There is no such thing as multitasking. Multitasking is simply doing several jobs half@ss. We need to monotask.)

Quote:
Also in the german forums they say its best to play the tape with the machine it was recorded.
I don't see this statement here at DigitalFAQ.
That's because it's horrible advice. Totally false. It's an online myth often parroted by newbies and other low-knowledge users. It's always best to play a tape in the best unit available. And in many cases, it means getting a better unit, because all that is available is junk. Most VCRs were lousy. You never want play tapes in the same lousy deck, as quality will suffer.

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  #8  
06-07-2020, 04:05 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is online now
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Quote:
Also in the german forums they say its best to play the tape with the machine it was recorded.
I don't see this statement here at DigitalFAQ.
It's true for some low speed recordings only and miss aligned recorders and to a certain extent only, Good VCR's and camcorders do record low speeds accurately so any other VCR can play them perfectly, Unfortunately some low end camcorders and VCR's make lousy low speed recordings that the recording machine itself is the only one capable of reproducing the exact recorded signal.
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  #9  
06-07-2020, 04:17 PM
MrGlasspoole MrGlasspoole is offline
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What a pain.
This old drivers are an assault. Cant remember when i had such problems the last time.
Not even with Creative drivers

AtiCimUn.exe did not work and also using "Add/Remove Programs" multiple times did nothing.
So i did use Driver Cleaner Pro

I did run it in in safe mode and did run it multiple times. It found some reg entries again and again that it said it did already delete them.
So i went to regedit and needed to change the permissions of this entries and deleted them myself.

I tried to run the driver setup.exe from 180-V01084-100 but the installation gets aborted.
So i went to the device manager and pointed to install\Driver\2KXP_INF.
While the driver did install i had to point to install\Driver\2KXP_INF\B_12289 two times.
I did this for both display adapters.
Are this drivers not signed? I did get a "not passed windows logo testing".

Then i did install CPanel (that worked) and WDM had the same behavior like the display driver.

But then i had 6.14.1.1692 for display driver and 6.14.1.6184 ?????

So i went to the device manager again and used "Don't search. I will choose the driver to install".
I used "Have Disk..." and pointed to CX_13023.inf

Then for every ATI WDM i had to do "Don't search. I will choose the driver to install"
And by unchecking "Sow compatible hardware" i did see all versions for every device and could select 6.14.10.6227.

Is it normal that both adapters show up as "ALL-IN-WONDER 9000"?
With 6.14.1.1692 one did show up as "ALL-IN-WONDER 9000 Secondary"

This is what AIDA64 has to say about the card:
Driver Description: ALL-IN-WONDER 9000 SERIES
BIOS Version: 008.004.000.000
Part Number: RV250 AIW 95902E test BIOS 270M/275E
PCI Device: 1002-4966 / 1002-4F72 (Rev 01)
Memory Size: 64 MB
Chip Type: RADEON 9000 AGP Pro (0x4966)

So the card is a "Pro"? Even if nothing on the card says so (sticker)?
I wonder about that "test BIOS"...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
This install sounds like a mess, and I'm getting confused by trying to troubleshoot two systems at once
Not two systems at once. That AGP was the first one and the X800 is not even installed yet

I guess the AIW X800 will be easier to install.
For that one i have the original CD: 100+DVD 180-V01107-100

I have a non AIW "X800 XT Platinum Edition" running under Win98SE for gaming without problems.
And the drivers are only beta.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
That's because it's horrible advice. Totally false. It's an online myth often parroted by newbies and other low-knowledge users.
Yes later in that thread somebody corrected that statement.
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  #10  
06-07-2020, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
It's true for some low speed recordings only and miss aligned recorders and to a certain extent only, Good VCR's and camcorders do record low speeds accurately so any other VCR can play them perfectly, Unfortunately some low end camcorders and VCR's make lousy low speed recordings that the recording machine itself is the only one capable of reproducing the exact recorded signal.
I still fully disagree. At least now -- now that I know better. Maybe 20 years ago, I would have said that. But at least 12 years ago, I started to purposely misalign decks to match poor tape alignment. And the quality of the good misaligned deck far exceeded that of the crappy misaligned deck. I have an SR-V101 that I routinely fiddle witth, to appease tricky tapes.

There's nothing special about misalignment on VHS or VHS-C. But it does take some degree of patient and knowledge to realign, preferably with calibration scopes to put the deck back (if putting back, which I obviously don't do to mine, seeing as how the entire purpose of my deck is for misalignment).

The real problem is Video8 and Hi8, as the misalignment is recorded into the tape data itself. You're screwed, often even with the broken camera still available.

In general, I dissuade misaligning, especially for novices. Best to just outsource those problem tapes to a service (like ours) that specializes in restoration. Because odds are good to make it worse, or even damage the tapes (as some misalignments can feather).

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGlasspoole View Post
For that one i have the original CD:
I have a lot of ATI discs. If you can research the exact disc needed, I may have it. Mine got jumbled about 5 years ago, and I no longer know which disc is for which exact card.

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  #11  
06-07-2020, 09:00 PM
MrGlasspoole MrGlasspoole is offline
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As i wrote. The one that came with the AIW X800 is labeled 100+DVD 180-V01107-100
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  #12  
06-08-2020, 01:55 PM
BW37 BW37 is offline
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@ MrGlasspoole

Sorry your installation was/is such a pain. Did you ever get to the point of trying to capture anything in virtualDub or similar? Have you tried to install any of MMC 8.8 and does that work for capture?

For your AGP (AIW 9000) sustem, what exact version of XP are you using and what service pack?
As described in great detail in the same post on problems with 9000 drivers, jwillis84 goes into great detail about the subtle and annoying problems that come from the different XP versions and SP levels. Media Center adds another whole layer (of problems) to the equation.

BW
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06-09-2020, 10:02 PM
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I just installed an x800xt AGP card this evening.

My system was XPSP3 on an Intel D865GBF motherboard.

Microsoft device drivers automatically inserted themselves and took over the card.

However when I fired up MyDVD to capture, the software informed me the device drivers were in some fashion broken and not responding to DirectX 9 commands and that I should seek replacements.

That was a very helpful message from the Roxio Sonic Solutions MyDVD program.

Normally on "first contact" with a new capture card, MyDVD quickly runs a suite of profile tests and stores Performance information before continuing to open the program. After "first contact" the suite never runs again.

In this case it helpfully identified something was wrong with the device drivers and told me "go get some other drivers".

Well.. I had not put in the Device Driver disk from ATI that came with the x800xt AGP card.. (Microsoft had inserted itself into the process and commandeered the card with old broken device drivers).. the device drivers were good enough to show a display, and installed "some capture card drivers" but they weren't good enough to work.

So I inserted the ATI provided device driver disk:

100+DVD
180-V01095-100
Made in the USA

And went to Device Manger and right clicked on the Display driver icon for the Primary x800 display and (Updated) the device driver selecting "Let me choose" and pointing it at the D:/Install/drivers/2kxp .. driver directory. and let it replace the Microsoft provided device drivers.

This also automatically "threw away" the WDM capture drivers that were partnered with the broken display drivers and began reinstalling them.. it was monotonous.. but when done.. everything worked. I did have to reboot, but MyDVD proceeded to profile the drivers and then continued to let me use them.

I could also then use VirtualDub 1.9.11

This is very common theme with Microsoft.. they handle device drivers very poorly.

The thing was they used to "demand" early device drivers for hardware that wasn't finished in order to make their release dates. ATI was a "preferred" hardware testing partner for many of the Windows versions going back to Windows 95/98.. so they gave them the device drivers even if they weren't workable much later.. at best they were not tweaked for best performance.. at worst.. they were missing huge chunks of code.

Microsoft "prioritized" their device drivers, no matter what release date they were stamped with over any the manufacturer provided or recommended.

You literally had to perform "self surgery" to force Windows to remove the "Microsoft provided drivers" and manually install the recommended manufacturer device drivers.

The really weird thing is.. the Microsoft device drivers were "re-stamped" with a later release date, even though they were old by the time they were signed.. so the "newer" manufacturer recommended device drivers appeared "old".. so Windows often complains.. "You are not installing the latest device drivers.. Are you sure you wish to proceed?"

My standard behavior is never trust a "Microsoft freebie" if they installed device drivers and you have another set from the manufacturer.. Update the device drivers and only point the installer at the ones you want to use.. and "Refuse" to accept help from the Microsoft Installer..

There are two x800 cards by the way, the x800xt is the (AGP) version, the x800xl is the (PCIe) version.. so be careful your using the disc that comes with the x800xt (AGP) if that is the card that you have.

A knock on effect happens too if you install the full ATI software suite from the disc using the "Express" option under one XP Service Pack, then install the next Service Pack.. Microsoft (again) steps in and throws away your personally installed device drivers and re-installs any included in its bundle with the new Service Pack.. again "breaking things".

In this case you can often just go into Device Manager and choose to [Rollback] a Device Driver Update.. to remove the (broken Microsoft device drivers) and it should restore your personally installed device drivers from the disc.. Microsoft Windows will howl bloody murder and yelp "That is not recommended behavior, we cannot be held accountable for your actions.." Just ignore it and do it anyway.. things will go back to working again.

Its really annoying.. but Microsoft always thought .. "Microsoft Knows Best".. and tried to push their device drivers over anything the manufacturers provided themselves.. even something years newer.. Microsoft would keep saying.. "Your attempting to install old drivers.. Please don't do that.."

It was like arguing with a HAL9000 Computer.

The ATI AIW 9000 AGP card is a lot easier to use.. but if its the first time, be sure to setup your sound card first. The 3.5mm jack coming out of the spider cable has to be inserted into the (Light Blue) Line Input of your sound card.

You also have to connect the Purple Barney Dock cable with the back of the 9000 card and connect some type of Sound and Video source to it. The card is an old NTSC Analog TV Tuner card, so it won't pick up any signals except static until you switch it over to the Yellow Composite or S-Video source.

Capture software will notice your Sound card and assume your Line Input signal should be paired up with the video source when capturing.

Most playback software like VirtualDub will also notice the Sound Card Line Input and "likewise" assume that sound source is to be paired up with the video source when playing back or capturing.

The ATI Multi Media Center software is nice in that its complete, but its also bundled with an Electronic Program Guide which no longer works, for scheduling TV show capture.. which also no longer works since the TV Tuner is looking for signals that stopped transmitting in 2009.

The ATI MMC 8.x capture software has some interesting filters and can offload some of the work of capturing to an MPEG2 format file to save space.. if your interested.. or it can capture uncompressed... which produces huge hard drive files.

VirtualDub 1.9.11 is probably best for plain Uncompressed capture.

MyDVD 2010 x32 is probably best for plain MPEG2 capture... in my opinion.

These are simpler less complicated programs that have a single focus in mind and easier to learn.

The ATI MMC 8.x Media Center software specialized in Television Watching, DVD watching and scheduling TV show capture.. that stuff kind of gets in the way of simple tasks like "capture from the s-video input (now)"

If your familiar with using the ATI MMC 8.x its great software.. but I've learned to like VirtualDub, and now MyDVD much better.

Once you have a capture process going, you will develop an appreciation for a clean input signal, time base correction, good cables and stable input.

The capture process breaks down when the signal breaks down, garbage in, garbage out.. if the signal goes away video will be missed or audio will be missed and then they won't be synced up in the final capture file. There is nothing the capture hardware can do if there is no signal.. sometimes it just aborts and stops recording.. that's when you have to troubleshoot the signal and get gear to make it stop misbehaving and causing problems.

Generally, the shorter the capture session, the less opportunity for problems to arise. Capturing in multiple breaks, minutes or an hour or two at a time are far more successful than trying to capture for 4, 6 or 8 hours at one time.

It takes a lot of baby sitting.. that's why it costs money to ask someone to do it for you.. rather than doing it yourself. that and leaning on their equipment and expertise to fix your problems for you.

Last edited by jwillis84; 06-09-2020 at 10:43 PM.
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  #14  
12-30-2020, 11:48 AM
pcourtney pcourtney is offline
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jwillis - thank you - the info about Micrsoft drivers be more up to date (when they are not ) really help me - cheers for that sage advice and knowledge
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