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-   -   Capturing VHS with the AJA Kona LSe card? (https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-capture/10792-capturing-vhs-aja.html)

hodgey 07-13-2020 02:17 PM
The hannover bars may well be on the tape, I suspect the recordings are just not all that great. It looks from the image like the Blaupunkt is on edit mod. There's a switch on the front that can be set to player/recorder/edit (or at least that's the naming on the NV-HS1000). If it's set to edit most noise filtering is disabled, including the AI switch and sharpness adjustment, which may or may not be desirable depending on the tape. I'm not sure if there's any difference between player and recorder playback wise. The one possible issue I do see is that the lines where the VCR compensates for dropouts are quite dark, I had the same issue with the NV-HS1000 we got here. There's a trimpot to adjust it but it's a bit hard to get to. The same (1-line) delay line that's is used for compensating for dropouts is used for luma noise reduction as well so it's possible it has some slight impact on that too.

Hannover bars will be less noticeable if internal noise and comb filters are active, and on the other 2 VCRs there Y/C separation of the composite video signal probably also reduces that effect. The LG is connected internally via composite to the A/D converter that's in it, the output from it goes through the internal digitizer and is converted back to analog on the outputs, unfortunately it doesn't have much effect on horizontal wiggle like the TBC in the Blaupunkt. It looks like there's something wrong with the Sony VCR.

Aerith 07-13-2020 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hodgey (Post 70142)
The hannover bars may well be on the tape, I suspect the recordings are just not all that great. It looks from the image like the Blaupunkt is on edit mod. There's a switch on the front that can be set to player/recorder/edit (or at least that's the naming on the NV-HS1000). If it's set to edit most noise filtering is disabled, including the AI switch and sharpness adjustment, which may or may not be desirable depending on the tape. I'm not sure if there's any difference between player and recorder playback wise. The one possible issue I do see is that the lines where the VCR compensates for dropouts are quite dark, I had the same issue with the NV-HS1000 we got here. There's a trimpot to adjust it but it's a bit hard to get to. The same (1-line) delay line that's is used for compensating for dropouts is used for luma noise reduction as well so it's possible it has some slight impact on that too.

Hannover bars will be less noticeable if internal noise and comb filters are active, and on the other 2 VCRs there Y/C separation of the composite video signal probably also reduces that effect. The LG is connected internally via composite to the A/D converter that's in it, the output from it goes through the internal digitizer and is converted back to analog on the outputs, unfortunately it doesn't have much effect on horizontal wiggle like the TBC in the Blaupunkt. It looks like there's something wrong with the Sony VCR.
The EDIT MODE switch on the Blaupunkt is set to PASSIVE. I read somewhere that this was the recommended setting. Would some other setting be better?

The manual says:
Quote:
EDIT MODE

PLAYER: When this VTR is used as the playback VTR during editing operations.

RECORDER: When this VTR is used as the recording VTR during editing operations
* Normally set at this position

PASSIVE: When operating this VTR using another VTR or an editing controller.
* The picture quality best suited for editing is selected.
* When setting at this position, operation will not be possible and the On Screen Display will not appear.

hodgey 07-13-2020 02:52 PM
Yeah PASSIVE, not EDIT, forgot the naming. I usually use that setting as well, at least for SP tapes (need to do some testing for LP, just recently got it to work properly again) unless they're really grainy. Was just pointing out that that may be why the hannover bars may be more visible on the captures from the panasonic, compared to the other VCRs.

Aerith 07-17-2020 10:23 AM
2 Attachment(s)
I just noticed that the AVI format MediaInfo is apparently always progressive. Capturing with the "QuickTime Movie" option on the other hand registers that the content is PAL and interlaced. Would have been nice to know sooner. :/

Anyway, I've been playing around with compressing files with FFMPEG and I'm having a bit of trouble with FFV1 2-pass compression. I've tried to follow the instructions in the FFV1 quick start guide. From there I got these commands:

Code:
# 1st pass
ffmpeg -i "cut.mkv" -threads 8 -an -vcodec ffv1 -coder 1 -context 1 -g 1 -level 3 -slices 24 -slicecrc 1 -pass 1 -passlogfile my_passlog pass1.mkv

# 2nd pass
ffmpeg -i "cut.mkv" -threads 8 -an -vcodec ffv1 -coder 1 -context 1 -g 1 -level 3 -slices 24 -slicecrc 1 -pass 2 -passlogfile my_passlog final.mkv
The result is this:

Attachment 12202
Attachment 12203

What am I doing wrong?

jjdd 07-17-2020 05:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerith (Post 70209)
I just noticed that the AVI format MediaInfo is apparently always progressive. Capturing with the "QuickTime Movie" option on the other hand registers that the content is PAL and interlaced. Would have been nice to know sooner. :/

Anyway, I've been playing around with compressing files with FFMPEG and I'm having a bit of trouble with FFV1 2-pass compression. I've tried to follow the instructions in the FFV1 quick start guide. From there I got these commands:

Code:
# 1st pass
ffmpeg -i "cut.mkv" -threads 8 -an -vcodec ffv1 -coder 1 -context 1 -g 1 -level 3 -slices 24 -slicecrc 1 -pass 1 -passlogfile my_passlog pass1.mkv

# 2nd pass
ffmpeg -i "cut.mkv" -threads 8 -an -vcodec ffv1 -coder 1 -context 1 -g 1 -level 3 -slices 24 -slicecrc 1 -pass 2 -passlogfile my_passlog final.mkv
The result is this:

Attachment 12202
Attachment 12203

What am I doing wrong?

i use .avi container not .mkv

my .bat file look like this for FFV1 encoding but i do only one pass

Code:
ffmpeg -i "D:\input.avi" -acodec copy -vcodec ffv1 -level 3 -threads 8 -coder 1 -context 1 -g 1 -slices 4 -slicecrc 1 "D:\output.avi"
pause

Aerith 07-18-2020 03:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjdd (Post 70215)
i use .avi container not .mkv

my .bat file look like this for FFV1 encoding but i do only one pass

Code:
ffmpeg -i "D:\input.avi" -acodec copy -vcodec ffv1 -level 3 -threads 8 -coder 1 -context 1 -g 1 -slices 4 -slicecrc 1 "D:\output.avi"
pause
I also used AVI in the beginning because I thought that it was a simpler container and therefore more likely to be future proof.

One pass works fine for me too and I've verified it by checking and comparing the checksums of individual frames of the original v210.mov uncompressed video and the ffv1.mkv compressed video using the command:

Code:
ffmpeg -i input.mov -f framemd5 input.md5
Be aware that the command can give different values if you compress the audio stream. The reason is apparently that it converts audio to signed 16-bit before computing checksums and it is this conversion which can lead to the discrepancy.

jjdd 07-18-2020 07:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerith (Post 70216)
I also used AVI in the beginning because I thought that it was a simpler container and therefore more likely to be future proof.

One pass works fine for me too and I've verified it by checking and comparing the checksums of individual frames of the original v210.mov uncompressed video and the ffv1.mkv compressed video using the command:

Code:
ffmpeg -i input.mov -f framemd5 input.md5
Be aware that the command can give different values if you compress the audio stream. The reason is apparently that it converts audio to signed 16-bit before computing checksums and it is this conversion which can lead to the discrepancy.
ok i have never test to comparing the checksums

hodgey 07-18-2020 10:05 AM
A nice thing with using mkv is that you can compress the audio with flac (lossless) as well and save a bit more space.

Formica 07-22-2020 09:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hodgey (Post 70026)
Going by the pictures, it looks like the Kona LSe has some TBC functionality, it seems to be correcting horizontal wiggle like the VCR TBC does, otherwise no-TBC one would look less straight.
According to Kona lit, the LSe offers "broadcast quality TBC with VHS support."

latreche34 07-23-2020 12:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Formica (Post 70366)
According to Kona lit, the LSe offers "broadcast quality TBC with VHS support."
That's why I kept telling him to leave the AVT out, Stacking TBC's in most cases serves no purpose other than degrading the picture quality due to multiple A/D/A conversions.

lordsmurf 07-23-2020 02:41 AM
TBCs are stackable, but must be complementary.

Aerith 08-13-2020 08:15 AM
3 Attachment(s)
I've been steadily working my way through the tapes and I've run into a new problem.

Attachment 12290
Attachment 12291
Attachment 12292

Why does this happen? Is it the tape? Or the VCR? Can it be fixed? I'm using the VCR's built-in TBC only.

Aerith 08-13-2020 10:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hodgey (Post 70142)
The hannover bars may well be on the tape, I suspect the recordings are just not all that great. It looks from the image like the Blaupunkt is on edit mod. There's a switch on the front that can be set to player/recorder/edit (or at least that's the naming on the NV-HS1000). If it's set to edit most noise filtering is disabled, including the AI switch and sharpness adjustment, which may or may not be desirable depending on the tape. I'm not sure if there's any difference between player and recorder playback wise. The one possible issue I do see is that the lines where the VCR compensates for dropouts are quite dark, I had the same issue with the NV-HS1000 we got here. There's a trimpot to adjust it but it's a bit hard to get to. The same (1-line) delay line that's is used for compensating for dropouts is used for luma noise reduction as well so it's possible it has some slight impact on that too.

Hannover bars will be less noticeable if internal noise and comb filters are active, and on the other 2 VCRs there Y/C separation of the composite video signal probably also reduces that effect. The LG is connected internally via composite to the A/D converter that's in it, the output from it goes through the internal digitizer and is converted back to analog on the outputs, unfortunately it doesn't have much effect on horizontal wiggle like the TBC in the Blaupunkt. It looks like there's something wrong with the Sony VCR.
Could you describe where this trimpot is? I have the service manual PDF.

latreche34 08-13-2020 01:41 PM
Stills are not the best way to show a problem in the video, If those chroma artifacts run for a very short time then it could source related, if the whole video is like that then there might be a problem with the VCR or capture card.

Aerith 08-13-2020 03:01 PM
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 (Post 70746)
Stills are not the best way to show a problem in the video, If those chroma artifacts run for a very short time then it could source related, if the whole video is like that then there might be a problem with the VCR or capture card.
The video is 3 hours long so uploading the whole thing isn't practical. I hope this 5 second clip is good enough.

Attachment 12293

The entire video isn't like this though. It only happens during the second half (after the ~2 hour mark). Sometimes it happens only occasionally (just a flicker), while other times it goes on for some time (5 second long purple segment, flicker back to normal for a second or two, then another purple segment, and so on for minutes).

This actually started happening during the previous tape, but at the time I thought that maybe it was just that tape. Now I'm wondering...

hodgey 08-13-2020 05:12 PM
Does it happen consistently on the same spot, or is it random? If it's always in the same spot (and also happens in other VCRs) it's likely to be the tape. (Consistent errors could also point tot he capture card, but that's less likely.) If it happens at random points it's more likely the VCR that's having issues. What I do see in the clip is that the pink coloring extends even into the head switch area, which would suggest it's not something that's on the tape itself. I did have some symptoms that were a bit like that that was caused by a bad capacitor on the TBC board, though was looking even worse than your example, so maybe your issue is something similar. If it was earlier in the video decoding chain in the VCR or on the tape, it wouldn't look as consistent down through the overscan area. You can try to turn on/off the TBC if you encounter it again and see if it disappears with the TBC off.

As for the trimpot for the drop-out correction: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vcr-...html#post59339

BW37 08-13-2020 05:40 PM
Something overheating? TBC or something on the AJA card? It looks suspiciously like what happens with a device I use to convert 1080P to 1080i so my old TV can use it. The unit worked well at first but then started to get flaky. I opened it up and ran it with the ends removed and sitting an an angle (more convection???) and it now works for longer periods of time. I need to make a more permanent fix...

Try running the PC with the case open and a fan directed into it at the AJA card. I don't know if you can open up the TBC safely but maybe just give it a rest to cool down.

My :2cents:

BW

Aerith 08-13-2020 11:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hodgey (Post 70748)
Does it happen consistently on the same spot, or is it random? If it's always in the same spot (and also happens in other VCRs) it's likely to be the tape. (Consistent errors could also point tot he capture card, but that's less likely.) If it happens at random points it's more likely the VCR that's having issues. What I do see in the clip is that the pink coloring extends even into the head switch area, which would suggest it's not something that's on the tape itself. I did have some symptoms that were a bit like that that was caused by a bad capacitor on the TBC board, though was looking even worse than your example, so maybe your issue is something similar. If it was earlier in the video decoding chain in the VCR or on the tape, it wouldn't look as consistent down through the overscan area. You can try to turn on/off the TBC if you encounter it again and see if it disappears with the TBC off.

As for the trimpot for the drop-out correction: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vcr-...html#post59339
Thanks!

I'll try to capture the same tape again and see if it happens in the same places.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BW37 (Post 70749)
Something overheating? TBC or something on the AJA card? It looks suspiciously like what happens with a device I use to convert 1080P to 1080i so my old TV can use it. The unit worked well at first but then started to get flaky. I opened it up and ran it with the ends removed and sitting an an angle (more convection???) and it now works for longer periods of time. I need to make a more permanent fix...

Try running the PC with the case open and a fan directed into it at the AJA card. I don't know if you can open up the TBC safely but maybe just give it a rest to cool down.

My :2cents:

BW
It is not impossible. It has been rather hot lately with indoor temperatures reaching up to 28-30 Celsius (82-86 F). I'll crank up the PC fans to max when I try to capture again. The VCR itself is sitting on my desk on a metal grill (kinda looks like this) with plenty of room on all sides including from below.

Aerith 08-14-2020 12:40 AM
Ok, so I tried some additional 10-minute captures and the purple parts sometimes happen at the same places and sometimes they don't. I did discover that if I turn the VCR TBC switch off it stops happening.

hodgey 08-14-2020 06:27 AM
If it only happens with the TBC on it's likely caused by a bad capacitor on the TBC board in the VCR.


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