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  #1  
07-20-2020, 03:39 AM
Okiba Okiba is offline
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Hi again,

So as I mentioned on a previous post, I own a very big HuffYuv/Lagarith and I would like to convert it into a file I can watch and stream. I was reading the "How to Encode MPEG-2 with Avidemux" guide. And I was able to create MKV file. I'm quoting something Lordsmurf wrote in a similar topic:

Quote:
"I would capture Huffyuv, then encode out an interlaced MPEG-2 @ 15mbps (Blu-ray spec) archive. Perhaps even MPEG-2 422@HL encode. Then create an H.264 stream to share, probably using QTGMC on that copy to deinterlace. .
The guide suggest using "Two Pass – Video Size" and set the video size. But I assume that if I want a 15mbps spec like mentioned above, the settings should be something else? Constant Bitrate set to 15mpbs?

The final MKV is indeed smaller, but still around 2GB for 45 minutes video. I should only create H.264 stream from that MKV if I want to go even lower on quality and have smaller file to share with people right? if I want to watch it myself on a good quality - I should just keep and use the MKV file?

Also, the MKV file when played displaying "Lines" on fast sections and when pausing. I'm assuming it's because the source is interlanced. As mentioned above, I should deinterlace the MKV file, preferably with QTGMC. I found this youtube video. If inded that's the proper flow of things, I will be watching it and learn how to use QTGMC.


Thanks again!
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  #2  
07-23-2020, 09:57 AM
Winsordawson Winsordawson is offline
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That video is a good start for learning how to de-interlace in Avisynth. If I am uploading to YouTube, I upload a supported lossless format because from what I have read, YouTube will re-compress any video. Thus, I would not bother saving a h.264 version unless you are sharing outside of YouTube, such as via DropBox, or you want to watch on your own computer. Personally, I keep an interlaced version on my computer to watch, since de-interlacing reduces the quality to a degree. For archival I saved a copy in FFV1, which is lossless.

The guide was referring to a constant bit rate of 15mbps, so I would go with that. You may not save that much space going with a two-pass VBR anyway.
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07-25-2020, 04:02 AM
Okiba Okiba is offline
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Hello Winsordawson! Thanks for the answer!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winsordawson View Post
Personally, I keep an interlaced version on my computer to watch, since de-interlacing reduces the quality to a degree. For archival I saved a copy in FFV1, which is lossless.

The guide was referring to a constant bit rate of 15mbps, so I would go with that. You may not save that much space going with a two-pass VBR anyway.
I never heard of FFV1. Mostly because HuffYuv/Lagarith is mentioned here often. I assume because all three are lose-less, there isn't much difference between the three (though I do know Lagarith takes less space). So I think it's fine for me to stay with Capture HuffYuv that is being converted to Lagarith for the space factor.

So if I understand correctly you have three versions of each video: Loseless (FFV1), Lossy MPEG2 (Interlaced) and Lossy De-interlaced?

I didn't know Deinterlacing reduce quality. Good to know. Does the original VHS is interlanced? so if I'll watch it on old CRT I will also see those lines?

Also, if it's indeed contant bit-rate, I assume the value need to be 15000? (as it's in kbps?)

Thanks!
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07-25-2020, 08:53 AM
Winsordawson Winsordawson is offline
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Lagarith takes up less space than Huffyuv, but it also requires a bit more processing to decode it, though it should not be an issue for most machines. I still would capture in Huffyuv. Some research online suggests that FFV1 has more compression than Lagarith, but it is also more likely that your computer will cough when playing it, especially if you saved it, let's say, at 60p.

FFV1 does not get much love on this forum but I prefer it over Lagarith because it is lossless, open-sourced, and unlike Lagarith, has a larger developer community. Lagarith is basically developed by one person, which does not bode well for archival purposes. FFV1 is used by museums.

I save three versions of my videos, which mostly consists of a music interview television program. One is Lossless FFV1 for the interview itself, and the other is a Lossy 15mbps MPEG2 for the whole episode of 28 minutes (since it includes music videos and other parts that are not as so important). I also save a de-interlaced version for YouTube, but since they always re-compress no matter what, I usually upload a lossless version of the interview, like in a codec such as FFV1 (not sure if YT takes Lagarith). I usually do not archive the de-interlaced version.

De-interlacing usually reduces quality, but LordSmurf estimates that it is about 25%. If the scene does not have much movement, it might be a minimal loss of quality. According to his recommendations, 15mbps or 15000kbps (same conversion as metric system) should be used for best archival quality with MPEG-2. In the United States, even new televisions can play interlaced footage because that is how programs are still transmitted. My guess is that if you played an interlaced file on a TV that has the right connections, it should detect that there are no interlace artifacts. But I would read the manual to be sure.
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  #5  
07-25-2020, 10:56 AM
Okiba Okiba is offline
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Thanks for the detailed answer Winsordawson.

I capture in Huffyuv as Lordsmurf mentioned Lagarith sometimes drop frames. I was planning to convert the Huffyuv to Lagarith to check if it saves much spaces. I guess I can also test FFV1 on the way. I'm able to play Huffyuv on VLC player and pretty old computer without any problem.

I plan to do exactly like you do. A Huffyuv/Lagarith/FFV1 Lose less format, for when I'll have time to to do more research how to improve the quality of fix couple of things, and one Lossy at 15000kbps.

I didn't try to play the Video on a TV. Only on my Monitor. So if watched on a TV - I shouldn't be seeing the "Lines" when pausing? I was under the impression modern TV/Monitors just can't show interlanced content properly. Here's a screenshot just to make sure that I describe the right problem:

https://imgur.com/a/Sq1LusS

Thank you!
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07-25-2020, 01:21 PM
Winsordawson Winsordawson is offline
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TVs are designed to de-interlace video and to obtain them from interlaced sources, since that is how all the stations in the US transmit them. You shouldn't see interlaced artifacts when viewing, but I don't know if they can be seen while the video is paused.
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08-03-2020, 05:53 AM
Okiba Okiba is offline
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Interesting. I took the picture paused, but I didn't tried to watch it on an actual TVset, just a PC monitor. A quick google search without too much research to check validity implies that most PC Monitor today can't handle interlaced content. I will try to stream the MKV to the TV, see if that's indeed the case and everything works fine on TV. In case it does, I'm not sure It's worth spending time with QTGMC, as I'm only going to watch those videos on the TV.

Thanks!

-- merged --

Well, I did some research on QTGMC, but something is not clear to me. Why would one want to de-interlace a video? Unless I'm watching the content in a PC Monitor or a phone device, most TVs can handle interlacing content properly. So people de-interlace just so they can watch stuff on the PC monitor or share in YouTube and such?
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  #8  
08-03-2020, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okiba View Post
Well, I did some research on QTGMC, but something is not clear to me. Why would one want to de-interlace a video? Unless I'm watching the content in a PC Monitor or a phone device, most TVs can handle interlacing content properly. So people de-interlace just so they can watch stuff on the PC monitor or share in YouTube and such?
Yes, now you understand.

The other common reason is documentaries, which use mixed sources.

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  #9  
08-03-2020, 07:23 AM
Okiba Okiba is offline
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Ha

In this case. I won't be bother with QTGMC on my basic workflow. Capture into HuffYuv, another pass for Masking, and converting to 15000kbps lossy mkv format.

I wonder though. My TV can do interlace. But I wonder if at some point they going to stop making TVs that can display interlace content properly? or this is too iron-into how TV hardware works and will not be changing any-time soon?
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  #10  
08-03-2020, 07:37 AM
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You have to be careful with MKV containers, and what I assume is therefore H264 encoding as the "lossy" format. Most players expect progressive/deinterlaced content, and will show comb lines. MPEG is safer as an interlaced container/format, as the spec calls for interlacing. The nature of H264 and containers leads to AR and itnerlacing problems. That's why almost everything is 1:1 progressive, the default. You just need to run test encodes, and play those.

Interlacing is done for broadcast bandwidth conservation. That will likely never change. Pushing progressive frames is why Netflix will always look worse than broadcast TV stations. It requires bitrate reduction, or "tricks" (GOP length, etc), for progressive to occupy the same bandwidth as interlace in broadcast. Perhaps if all antenna/cable/satellite ceases, and all we have is online content. But I don't see that happening in our lifetimes, if ever.

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  #11  
08-03-2020, 07:50 AM
Okiba Okiba is offline
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Perhaps I have been using the wrong term. It is actually MPEG2 -

https://imgur.com/a/zqWvNdh

I followed your Guide when creating it:

http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/vid...idemux-pt1.htm

But it seems like the end-file has extension of .mkv file.

Interesting! So even today with super fast download speed, we still struggle to achieve good progressive quality? I assume Netflix didn't have a choice, because many people consume content on the phone. Is all VHS content is interlaced?
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