TBC recommendations for Hi8 capture using Sony EV-C100?
Howdy all. Apologies in advance for the wall of text.
My current project is to digitize roughly 30 8mm (some Video8, some Hi8). Ultimately I'll be storing the uncompressed video for archival, but I'll also be looking to de-interlace and clean up the captured video for sharing with family online. For the analog side, I have a Sony EV-C100 that I'd like to use for this project, though I do have a couple other 8mm camcorders lying around if those prove to be better options. On the digital end I have a Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle USB 3.0 capture device that I'll be chucking out the window by EOD today due to issues widely documented on this and other forums. For that part I'll likely be picking up an ATI 600 USB and trying my luck with Windows 10, or swapping in a dedicated offline WinXP/7 box for capture. The tapes range from late-80s to early 2000s, recorded across two camcorders. I know for a fact that there are several chewed up portions of tape in the set that I'll need to contend with, but having spent the past few days tearing down the EV-C100 for cleaning, fighting with my current capture card (and Windows!) and generally feeling very frustrated at the whole project, I'd like some idea of what I'm in for. My question is this: If I'm capturing 8mm/Hi8 to one of the recommended capture devices into Virtualdub/HuffyAV, can I get away with a Panasonic DMR-ES10/15 to clean up the signal before capture, or will a dedicated TBC be strictly necessary here? Thanks in advance! P.S. - Bonus question: What is Linux support like for any of the recommended cards? I see a lot of recommendation for WinXP but not all that much on the Linux side. |
There already is a thread about a buying list of 8mm/Hi8/Digital8 camcorders for transfer. I also have an ATI USB 600 - good choice. I'm not familiar with that model VCR, but based a quick Google search it doesn't look like it has a TBC. An ES10/15 wouldn't be ideal in most circumstances.
A TBC equipped camcorder from that list plus a frame TBC would be ideal, dare I say necessary. I personally have a TVOne 1T-TBC-GL. I have done a ton of Hi8 conversions and have both an EV-S7000 editor and a CCD-TRV85 camcorder. Both are TBC equipped. Even though the tape tranports better in the EV-S7000 the image is cleaner and has more "snap" from the camcorder. I'm not sure why, but others seem to have similar experiences. As far as OSs Windows XP/Vista/7 are ideal with XP being the preference. However, I use Vista for capturing (oh, the humanity!). The ATI 600 USB works with Win7 and also supposedly Win10, but Windows 10 isn't recommended for capturing. I don't think there are many Linux users here. |
Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle is not the ideal device for capturing consumer analog video sources, with it you will need an external TBC, With a better capture device and a camcorder or a player built in line TBC you can give it a try before you spend few hundred dollars on a TBC. 1st look to see if the frame is stable, 2nd make sure there is no deformation or unusual artifacts in the video such as tearing, unstable chroma, blue screen ... etc. 3rd after capturing an hour or so of video with no signal interruption such as scene change, damaged tape, erased tape, check the audio sync to see if there is any. If any of the above tested positive it is a sign that you will need an external TBC.
|
If your tapes are in good shape, DMR-ES10/15 would suffice.
|
Thanks for the replies so far, everyone! This was definitely more of an undertaking than I'd previously thought. At least, monetarily speaking. I still want to do this project on my own, I just don't think I was ready for the $1k+ sticker shock that came with digitizing these tapes! :eek:
The camcorder I have at my disposal (aside from the EV-C100 deck that does NOT have any form of onboard TBC) is a CCD-TRV318. From the stickied guide, this unit is marked as having mono audio out with S-video, and I've tested capture from these ouputs to my Blackmagic card with decent success. Of the two cameras originally used to make these tapes, I know the newer one was a CCD-TRV12, which only had mono recording, so the mono audio capabilities of the CCD-TR318 shouldn't be an issue. In all honesty, my primary draw to sticking with the EV-C100 is the relative ease at which I can 'emergency stop' a tape if something goes awry. I've had this happen on a couple of MiniDV decks in the past and it's a whole helluva lot easier to safely untangle magnetic tape from a deck-style transport than it is from the tight confines of a camcorder. I have no doubt that the quality would be the same or better if I stuck with the camcorder. Having said that, if I'm striking out on this project on my own, that peace of mind and holds a lot of practical value to me for tapes that I couldn't possibly put a price on. So I suppose all of that is to ask yet another question (and I thank you for sticking with me if you've read this far): Taking into account the EV-C100s lack of built-in TBC, would a standalone TBC be sufficient between the deck and my capture device? And if so, are any of the recommended devices 'better' for 8mm over VHS, or is it all the same as far as what a TBC does? |
There are two types of TBC's, Line TBC stores and rearrange scan lines usually resides inside the player, Full frame TBC stores the whole frame or field and output them in a timed manner usually an external box. One cannot replace the other and like I mentioned above none of the two has any impact on the video quality (with the exception of DNR which usually coupled with the line TBC), They don't care what's inside the scan lines, they are just looking for the H and V timing pulses recorded by the video head and correct them by replacing them with new ones. So before you dive into this TBC business do some captures with what you got now first and post samples here.
|
The ES10/ES15 should work okay whichever device you use. They will correct horizontal jitter and ensure a stable output to the capture card. Main drawbacks of those some slight posterization effect in the NTSC versions, and for the PAL ones sight clipping of whites unless the video level is lowered in some way before entering it.
The TRV-318 comes with TBC/DNR, which corrects horizontal jittering, though it doesn't fully ensure a stable signal out, so you can get hickups when a recording on the tape starts. |
Quote:
ATI 600 SUB fine, but Win10 often gives it issue at OS updates. (Win10 is lousy for capturing.) WinXP or Win7 box ideal, especially XP for AIW (USB, AGP). Quote:
recommended camera/VCR with line TBC > > recommended frames TBC > > recommended capture card Quote:
Hi8/Video8 tends to be a drop-happy format, more even than VHS. I've observed that the frame sync TBC tends to correct each frame, while the ES10/15 can insert dupes (better than loss). The ES10/15 is not a frame TBC, but a frame sync with strong+weak line TBC with ability to be confused by (or pass) anti-copy. Unfortunately, the offset that allows artificial errors to ruin the signal also allows natural errors to do the same. Strong line, because it removes tearing. Weak line because it passes anti-copy like Macrovision. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
With you (the OP) having mentioned crinkled tapes, realize that even the best decks and TBCs have issues on those ruined sources. The shortcut items tend to fall over themselves, drastic quality reductions on said bad areas of tape. Quote:
|
Thanks for the clarity and responses, lordsmurf and all, much appreciated! Multiple playback/capture attempts sound reasonable, and with an external (frame sync?) TBC in the chain regardless, I think I'll be in good shape. Now I'm in the market for the following:
That should do it for this thread so I won't derail with more questions about specific equipment - I'll create a new post on the Marketplace. Thanks again, everyone! |
Site design, images and content © 2002-2024 The Digital FAQ, www.digitalFAQ.com
Forum Software by vBulletin · Copyright © 2024 Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.