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  #1  
10-12-2020, 09:06 PM
Glitchy Windows 3.1 Glitchy Windows 3.1 is offline
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Hello,

Before I begin I would like to point out that I did a previous thread on this problem, however, it still hasn't helped me with my current problem. So I recently got a Pinnacle MovieBox PLUS 510 USB capture card and started to download its drivers and use virtualdub (1.9.11). Upon using it the Pinnacle with Virtualdub (1.9.11) for the first time it did capture, however, I couldnt see what was capturing when I clicked "Capture Video." It then got to the point where if I when to the capture mode it would crash all the time if I wanted to change any capture settings or press "capture video."

- I am on Windows 10 version 1903
- My computer specs are
ryzen 5 3600 6 core processor
NVIDIA GTX 1660 ti
corsair vengeance 16gb ram
among other parts that are as important to mention

Lordsmurf in the previous post said the NVIDIA might be causing problems with Virtualdub (1.9.11) but I dont know how to fix that if that is the problem. As he said along the lines of having to make Virtualdub use onboard graphics which is something I dont know how to do. I have a video showing what happens here:

https://youtu.be/3t4yHH-WX1Q

If you have any methods on trying to fix this issue please tell as I need to transfer some tapes for my family. Use of screenshots for instructions is recommended.

One thing I forgot to add: I was using Virtualdub 1.10.4 which had the same problems listed above and then switched to 1.9.11 as lordsmurf said and the problems still persist.
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  #2  
10-13-2020, 07:34 PM
stymie stymie is offline
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It doesn't look like Virtualdub is seeing the video source. I say this because Virtualdub shows you're connected to the Pinnacle device, but there is no video displayed when you're in the Overlay mode. With my VCR and Pinnacle device connected, powered up and a tape inserted, I can see the channel number from my VCR's on screen display when I open Virtualdub and enter the Capture Mode.

I'm just getting started and had similar issues with my Windows 10 set-up, but eventually got it to work despite having a NVIDIA graphics card. However, due to office/space limitations, I moved my capturing equipment to another location and am currently using an old Windows 7 computer with an ATI graphics card. While I'm still experimenting with my set-up, I still have similar issues with my Windows 7 computer, but not quite as often.

Here are some troubleshooting ideas that I'm following for my Windows 7 set-up:

1. Confirm Virtualdub 1.9.11 and HuffyUV are set-up properly. I'm not sure it makes a difference since Virtualdub is 32 bit, but I also followed the additional steps for the 32 bit and 64 bit HuffyUV installation. Also, if using Windows 10, make sure Windows 10 Privacy settings are configured to allow access to Virtualdub under the listed Camera devices. Also, I don't know if it matters or not, but I don't have the Virtualdub folder under the Program Files (x86) folder. I'm just running it from a folder on my desktop for now.

2. If using a Windows 64 bit OS, install the latest 64 bit Pinnacle driver.

3. Verify connections from VCR to Pinnacle device and computer. I'm using s-video versus component video and also an in-line TBC.

4. Before starting Virtualdub, power up the VCR and Pinnacle device (and TBC if applicable) and use the Crossbar Thing tool to confirm it sees the Pinnacle device and Pinnacle Crossbar. Use the Crossbar Thing tool to select S-video as the video input.

5. Start Virtualdub. Go to Capture mode and verify the Pinnacle device is selected as input. Under the Video menu, select Preview mode versus Overlay. Based on other posts, Preview mode should be used. For my set-up (Windows 7, ATI graphics card), with Preview mode selected, I can see my the channel number from my VCR's on screen display, as well as the VCR set-up menu if being accessed.

However, if I remember correctly, when I was experimenting with my Windows 10/NVIDIA set-up, I had to use overlay mode (versus Preview), but the video was not clear and couldn't be viewed when capturing. (Just like you described. I also was using Windows 10 version 1903). However, I still could tell Virtualdub was "seeing something" because my screen wasn't blank like yours in your video. I guess you could try both modes, but the bottom line is you should probably be seeing "something" (video, VCR OSD, scrambled signal, etc). (I also, couldn't change menus or options without it crashing.) Note, although not necessary, to help in troubleshooting, I also attached a small TV directly to the VCR output so I could see the Video output. I also tried rebooting the computer and repeating steps 2-5 if needed.

6. Even with my Windows 7 set-up, after starting Virtualdub and going to the Capture mode, sometimes I don't see the video input. It seems to be random, but if no signal is present, (without changing any settings or options.) I can usually exit out of Virtualdub without doing or changing anything else (and without it crashing); unplug the Pinnacle capture device and back in again, and restart Virtualdub. It has taken one or more tries in the past, and have also repeated steps 2-5 if needed.

I don't know if this helps, but something to try. Again, I didn't spend a lot of time experimenting with Windows 10, but I did get it to work eventually. Right now, due to my office limitations, I'm having success using my old Windows 7 machine, with the troubleshooting tips above, otherwise I'd probably try sticking with Windows 10.

Last edited by stymie; 10-13-2020 at 08:16 PM.
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10-13-2020, 09:42 PM
Glitchy Windows 3.1 Glitchy Windows 3.1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stymie View Post
It doesn't look like Virtualdub is seeing the video source. I say this because Virtualdub shows you're connected to the Pinnacle device, but there is no video displayed when you're in the Overlay mode. With my VCR and Pinnacle device connected, powered up and a tape inserted, I can see the channel number from my VCR's on screen display when I open Virtualdub and enter the Capture Mode.
Well everytime I change it to preview it just crashes and it seems to just be the capture mode part of it as the video editing works or at least doesn't crash when I do a simple task. (Check attachment "editing Vdub")

Here are some troubleshooting ideas that I'm following for my Windows 7 set-up:

Quote:
Originally Posted by stymie View Post
1. Confirm Virtualdub 1.9.11 and HuffyUV are set-up properly. I'm not sure it makes a difference since Virtualdub is 32 bit, but I also followed the additional steps for the 32 bit and 64 bit HuffyUV installation. Also, if using Windows 10, make sure Windows 10 Privacy settings are configured to allow access to Virtualdub under the listed Camera devices. Also, I don't know if it matters or not, but I don't have the Virtualdub folder under the Program Files (x86) folder. I'm just running it from a folder on my desktop for now.
I don't know how to check if HuffyUV is set-up properly since I cant check any capture setting without it crashing on me. Furthermore, Virtualdub (1.9.11) shows as a 32bit program on task manager don't know if that is the problem or doesn't matter. I have it rn on C:\ Program Files (x86) as of right now. (see attachment "32 bit").

Quote:
Originally Posted by stymie View Post
2. If using a Windows 64 bit OS, install the latest 64 bit Pinnacle driver.
I did install the pinnacle drivers and it does say its 64bit

Quote:
Originally Posted by stymie View Post
3. Verify connections from VCR to Pinnacle device and computer. I'm using s-video versus component video and also an in-line TBC.

4. Before starting Virtualdub, power up the VCR and Pinnacle device (and TBC if applicable) and use the Crossbar Thing tool to confirm it sees the Pinnacle device and Pinnacle Crossbar. Use the Crossbar Thing tool to select S-video as the video input.
I have an S-video cable but I am using composite because my VCR is a VCR/DVD combo the S-video only outputs whatever is on the DVD so the crossbar thing isn't necessary but I do have it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stymie View Post
5. Start Virtualdub. Go to Capture mode and verify the Pinnacle device is selected as input. Under the Video menu, select Preview mode versus Overlay. Based on other posts, Preview mode should be used. For my set-up (Windows 7, ATI graphics card), with Preview mode selected, I can see my the channel number from my VCR's on screen display, as well as the VCR set-up menu if being accessed.

However, if I remember correctly, when I was experimenting with my Windows 10/NVIDIA set-up, I had to use overlay mode (versus Preview), but the video was not clear and couldn't be viewed when capturing. (Just like you described. I also was using Windows 10 version 1903). However, I still could tell Virtualdub was "seeing something" because my screen wasn't blank like yours in your video. I guess you could try both modes, but the bottom line is you should probably be seeing "something" (video, VCR OSD, scrambled signal, etc). (I also, couldn't change menus or options without it crashing.) Note, although not necessary, to help in troubleshooting, I also attached a small TV directly to the VCR output so I could see the Video output. I also tried rebooting the computer and repeating steps 2-5 if needed.
Like I said clicking on preview or even clicking on the specific capture device will just crash VirtualDub automatically. However, it does select the pinnacle automatically. (see attachment "pinnacle on there")

Quote:
Originally Posted by stymie View Post
6. Even with my Windows 7 set-up, after starting Virtualdub and going to the Capture mode, sometimes I don't see the video input. It seems to be random, but if no signal is present, (without changing any settings or options.) I can usually exit out of Virtualdub without doing or changing anything else (and without it crashing); unplug the Pinnacle capture device and back in again, and restart Virtualdub. It has taken one or more tries in the past, and have also repeated steps 2-5 if needed.

I don't know if this helps, but something to try. Again, I didn't spend a lot of time experimenting with Windows 10, but I did get it to work eventually. Right now, due to my office limitations, I'm having success using my old Windows 7 machine, with the troubleshooting tips above, otherwise I'd probably try sticking with Windows 10.
Yeah I wish I got more replies in this thread as I really need to resolve this issue, I do have a windows 7 laptop but I can download anything because it was a school laptop and it has a password I do not know so it inhibits me from downloading anything. That is why I need to see if there is anything to resolve my issue

Edit: I put the tape into the VCR > pressed play > open virtualdub > went to capture mode. And it showed this mess (this is not what is on the original tape by the way). Dont know why it shows it like that but it does. I then clicked on preview to see if it does anything and it just crashes as usual. (see attachment "uhm")


Attached Images
File Type: png 32 bit.png (9.9 KB, 5 downloads)
File Type: jpg editing Vdub.jpg (67.8 KB, 3 downloads)
File Type: jpg pinnacle on there.jpg (11.7 KB, 3 downloads)
File Type: jpg uhm.jpg (36.5 KB, 5 downloads)

Last edited by Glitchy Windows 3.1; 10-13-2020 at 09:50 PM. Reason: an update
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  #4  
10-13-2020, 10:01 PM
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Did you use Crossbar Thing to switch from composite to s-video?
Or use the composite connection?

Whether you use Preview or Overlay depends on several factors, including card hardware, drivers, and OS. "Umm" is a good thing, You're using Overlay when you should be using Preview.

Don't worry about Huffyuv right now. Just capture uncompressed for the moment, until other steps figured out. Don't complicate issues.

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10-13-2020, 10:16 PM
Glitchy Windows 3.1 Glitchy Windows 3.1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Did you use Crossbar Thing to switch from composite to s-video?
Or use the composite connection?
no i used the crossbar thing to make sure it is in composite

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Whether you use Preview or Overlay depends on several factors, including card hardware, drivers, and OS. "Umm" is a good thing, You're using Overlay when you should be using Preview.
Again going back it always says "not responding" and crashes when I try switch it to preview and I want to know how I can fix that issue and is what I have been saying from the very beginning

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Don't worry about Huffyuv right now. Just capture uncompressed for the moment, until other steps figured out. Don't complicate issues.
Im not trying to complicate the issue I just want to know why Virtualdub 1.9.11 is always crashing on my Windows 10 version 1903 computer
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  #6  
10-13-2020, 10:20 PM
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You need to move on 1.9.x, and try FM 40121.

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10-13-2020, 10:26 PM
stymie stymie is offline
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To clarify, from what I remember when using my Windows 10 setup, the Preview mode didn't work and would crash like you indicate you're experiencing if I tried to change it. I had to use Overlay mode. The signal was scrambled like what you're seeing, but if I left it in Overlay mode, it would still capture the video correctly as long as Virtualdub was seeing "something". Note, I only did a few test captures and can't confirm behavior on an entire tape. (try capturing something and playback the video and see if it looks ok). I also connected a small LCD TV directly to the VCR so I could see the video that was playing and configure the VCR menu settings. I didn't spend a lot of time experimenting with the Windows 10 setup before I moved everything to a different computer. However, since going to my Windows 7 machine, I can use Preview mode and it works fine. Again, my Windows 10 computer has a NVIDIA graphics card and my Windows 7 has a ATI card. There may be other work arounds or ways to try disabling on-board graphics vs. the NVIDA card, but I don't know how to do it.
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10-13-2020, 10:29 PM
Glitchy Windows 3.1 Glitchy Windows 3.1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
You need to move on 1.9.x, and try FM 40121.
Is there a link somewhere?
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10-13-2020, 10:42 PM
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https://sourceforge.net/projects/vdf...1.zip/download

Nvidia is probably the issue.
Go to Nividia Control Panel, Program Settings, select VirtualDub, Preferred graphics processor, use integrated graphics.
https://www.nvidia.com/content/Contr...reference).htm

I have this screencapped on a thumb drive, but not sure which, too busy right this moment.

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10-13-2020, 11:28 PM
Glitchy Windows 3.1 Glitchy Windows 3.1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
https://sourceforge.net/projects/vdf...1.zip/download

Nvidia is probably the issue.
Go to Nividia Control Panel, Program Settings, select VirtualDub, Preferred graphics processor, use integrated graphics.
https://www.nvidia.com/content/Contr...reference).htm

I have this screencapped on a thumb drive, but not sure which, too busy right this moment.
I don't see the integrated graphics setting? is it one of these settings? (see attachment "Settings")


Attached Images
File Type: png Settings.png (32.7 KB, 3 downloads)

Last edited by Glitchy Windows 3.1; 10-13-2020 at 11:31 PM. Reason: had to fix something within the attachment
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  #11  
10-13-2020, 11:46 PM
stymie stymie is offline
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I didn't see it either. It looks like Windows 10 now overrides the Nividia setting. Try going to Windows settings or search for Graphics settings in the Windows 10 search field. Add VirtualDub path. Then check options. It should show a Power saving GPU and a High performance GPU. Hopefully, the Power saving GPU has Intel HD Graphics (or something similar) and High Performance GPU has NVIDIA. Then you can just select the preference to Power saving GPU. But, mine showed both (Power saving and High performance) as the NVIDIA. I had to go to the System BIOS settings, chipset options, and enable on board graphics. Every motherboard is different, mine was set to Automatic. I just changed it to Enable and rebooted. After reboot, the computer installed the Intel Graphics application. Then I went back into the Windows Graphics settings were I was previously, and checked the options for Virtualdub again. And this time, Intel HD graphics was listed as the power saving GPU. Let me know if this works. I can't check it because I've moved everything to my other computer.
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10-13-2020, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stymie View Post
I didn't see it either. It looks like Windows 10 now overrides the Nividia setting. Try going to Windows settings or search for Graphics settings in the Windows 10 search field. Add VirtualDub path. Then check options. It should show a Power saving GPU and a High performance GPU. Hopefully, the Power saving GPU has Intel HD Graphics (or something similar) and High Performance GPU has NVIDIA. Then you can just select the preference to Power saving GPU. But, mine showed both (Power saving and High performance) as the NVIDIA. I had to go to the System BIOS settings, chipset options, and enable on board graphics. Every motherboard is different, mine was set to Automatic. I just changed it to Enable and rebooted. After reboot, the computer installed the Intel Graphics application. Then I went back into the Windows Graphics settings were I was previously, and checked the options for Virtualdub again. And this time, Intel HD graphics was listed as the power saving GPU. Let me know if this works. I can't check it because I've moved everything to my other computer.
If that works for our OP, can one of you take some screenshots of it? Because I want/need to make a guide for Win7 and Win10 both.

Nvidia cards are a known problem, and it seems to be getting more prevalent in the past year.

I figured out that Win7 workaround earlier this year, took screenshots, never made my guide (though I thought I did ).

It worked on an earlier Win10 version, I think, but Win10 (as usual) is hiding and burying things.

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10-14-2020, 01:53 PM
Glitchy Windows 3.1 Glitchy Windows 3.1 is offline
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Update: once I get home im going to try to see if I can assess BIOS as it did not allow me to open BIOS by pressing one of the f keys. I will see why this is as it never happened before.

Essentially when powering on it goes straight to the home screen and skips the little BIOS dialog you see on the bottom right
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10-14-2020, 03:07 PM
stymie stymie is offline
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FYI. On my computer (Gigabyte MB), the "Delete" key takes you to BIOS, not one of the f keys.
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10-14-2020, 03:12 PM
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Where did this card come from?
Was it a random eBay purchase?
Because we're not 100% certain your card is even good.
Again, both good and bad Pinnacle exist. And then even with good model/chips, I've see malfunctioning and failed cards.

So this card is still a variable.

You've made too many new posts on this same exact card/problem/topic (which I've mostly merged, don't do that!), but I've long since lost track on whether you've yet tried this card on another non-Win10 non-Nvidia system.

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10-15-2020, 09:41 PM
Glitchy Windows 3.1 Glitchy Windows 3.1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stymie View Post
FYI. On my computer (Gigabyte MB), the "Delete" key takes you to BIOS, not one of the f keys.
Hello again,

I got into the BIOS and here is where each computer differs. Because I dont know if this is where I go for the on board graphics option


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File Type: jpg 20201015_213812.jpg (53.3 KB, 4 downloads)
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10-15-2020, 10:27 PM
stymie stymie is offline
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The CPU you listed (ryzen 5 3600 6 core processor) may not have integrated graphics. Check the specs of the processor and available MB BIOS settings.
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10-15-2020, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by stymie View Post
The CPU you listed (ryzen 5 3600 6 core processor) may not have integrated graphics. Check the specs of the processor and available MB BIOS settings.
You are absolutely right, AMD processors do not have integrated graphics...Intel processors do. Luckily for me I have another computer (Windows 10 version 1903) with an Intel i5 6500 and it does have integrated graphics. Please keep an eye on this thread as Ill post updates.
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10-16-2020, 03:22 AM
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If you're pulling out the 510 and re-inserting it, make sure you "Eject" it from Windows first. I have a 710 and have had problems trying to get it working in VDub, and I've found "ejecting" it has helped when I've been trying things. Another USB capture stick I have also likes being ejected before being re-inserted.
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10-16-2020, 04:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Where did this card come from?
If you mean where I bought it, I got it from eBay. Unfortunately it was the only one left from the seller

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Was it a random eBay purchase?
I don't know what you mean by random eBay purchase but assuming you meant, "Did you just typed pinnacle capture card or capture card and bought it?" If that is what you meant then no. When you said you had a Pinnacle 510 I went on eBay to look for one because the price you listed it as was too much for me and I was going to ask if hold it off until I have the money but I assumed you would say no. Furthermore, even though if you were to sell it on eBay you, obviously, would know my name and address ( I know you do not sell stuff on eBay because of the 15% tax or something). Although you may be trustworthy I just don't like giving Info on a forum website via private message as I never done that before.

However, if you meant "Did you buy a random pinnacle card without seeing if it was broken?" No, it was not broken as it was listed as "out of the box" as he did take it out but the seller did not say it was used and was new as the cables were in its original packaging. As for buying a random pinnacle capture card, no I bought the Pinnacle 510, more specifically the Pinnacle 510 8230-10028-61. (See attachment "Model number")

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Because we're not 100% certain your card is even good.
Again, both good and bad Pinnacle exist. And then even with good model/chips, I've see malfunctioning and failed cards.
I have no idea on how to tell but I will tell you this, there was another Windows 10 computer that I have with an
- Intel i5 6500
- 8 GB RAM
- NVIDIA GT 1030

Although it does have an nvidia card, I can possibly switch to integrated graphics via BIOS, not sure if it would work (not on the nvidia control pannel as I did not see what specific setting you wanted me to change as it did not correspond to the link you send me of changing to integrated graphics). So with this being said, I installed the drivers for pinnacle (64bit), the crossbar thing, and then Virtualdub FM 40121 that's it. (could not go to BIOS for whatever reason).
1. I got my VCR, put a tape,
2. connected it to the Pinnacle 510,
3. opened VirtualDub FM 40121,
4. went to capture AVI,
5. overlay showed a glitchy mess on the output window,
6. switched to preview (output window is now gone but hasn't crashed yet),
7. press play on VCR then press capture video on VirtualDub (did not crash)
8. Ok it did capture despite it not showing me on VirtualDub as I was capturing it
9. Closed VirtualDub, then reopened it
10. tried to capture and it wouldn't let me as it would crash all over again
(see attachment "test" and yes i recorded footage from my pc, that is why it was a test!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
So this card is still a variable.
Possibly, but let me tell you this, when I had those easycap cards I decided to use virtualdub 1.10.4 at the time, and guess what...it crashed similarly to what is happening now. Although I do not know if this justifies that the pinnacle 510 card is not a variable

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
You've made too many new posts on this same exact card/problem/topic (which I've mostly merged, don't do that!), but I've long since lost track on whether you've yet tried this card on another non-Win10 non-Nvidia system.
Luckily I do, I have a Windows 7 laptop, Why haven't I mentioned it? or tried it in the first place? Well it is because it has a admin password that no one knows inhibiting me to install the crossbar thing, the pinnacle drivers, even virtualdub which technically doesn't need to be installed! Yet it still asks for the administrator password.

My goal is to try to factory reset it without the installation disc and rather via USB because the optical drive is busted on that laptop. If you have any knowledge on factory resetting a Windows 7 computer to bypass the administrator password please tell. So in short, if I get the windows 7 factory reseted I will use that laptop to capture stuff there. But as of right now I only tested the Pinnacle 510 capture card on two Windows 10 computers both with an NVIDIA card.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg pinnacle 510.jpg (53.8 KB, 2 downloads)
File Type: jpg model number.jpg (52.6 KB, 3 downloads)
Attached Files
File Type: mp4 test.mp4 (956.8 KB, 2 downloads)

Last edited by Glitchy Windows 3.1; 10-16-2020 at 04:19 AM. Reason: Video file attachment was not working
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