Quantcast AVT-8710 (black) TBC vs. BVTBC10 experience? - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
10-26-2020, 01:00 PM
motivus motivus is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 17
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
All Hail Lord Smurf!!

Back in late September I asked my first question on this forum and it ultimately led to my purchasing a @Lordsmurf-refurbished "Big Voodoo Time Base Corrector 10" by Key West Technology.

I was mighty nervous about making such a purchase (of a device I'm not all that familiar with from a person I do not know, in -- if not a black market then a purple one but I'm happy to say that @Lordsmurf DID NOT STEER ME WRONG.

Even though I've been working with the new unit for just over a week now, I've waited to post about my experience because I first wanted to get a few diverse Hi8 tape captures under my belt. Each tape on the order of 27 to 30 years old.

It is absolutely clear that the guidance you will receive on this forum about the black model AVT-8710s is absolutely true. If you are trying to put together a solid analog video capture system you should absolutely avoid these.

Lordsmurf happened to have a BVTBC10 that he had refurbished and he offered it up to me as a better option for my use case. AND SO IT IS. The difference is better than night and day; it's more like Earth and Mars!

I am getting extraordinary captures with the BVTBC10. In addition to far fewer glitches (and shorter duration glitches) the captures are more contrasty with dramatically better definition, colors, and skin tones.

That's not to say there aren't "issues." As mentioned, these old tapes will still cause glitches. But on the vast majority of my captures the BVTBC10 makes them few and far between... and they last, typically, under a second. Gone is the routine tearing, jitter, and ghosting problems of the 8710. The ghosting alone was the worst aspect of trying to use the black 8710.

I have observed, however, that my BVTBC10 does cause a desaturation of color (toward black-and-white) on the extreme left side of the capture (vertical). But as it's only on the order of 10 or so pixels wide it's almost imperceptible. It may be more pronounced in the BlackMagic Media Express preview window than in the saved file.

Also, on captures where the BVTBC10 is wrestling sync you can see that the picture gets shifted by a few pixels to the right. This leaves a very thin vertical black bar on the extreme left of the image. (See attachment. Capture with the 8710 on the Left; Capture with the new BVTBC10 on the Right.) In the scheme of things this will have no impact on my final result after I post-process these... including straight up through using software by Topaz Labs to sharpen up and turn select footage into high-definition (HD) via interpolation.

So, this is not to say that there are not further improvements I could make to my capture setup (see linked post above for discussion regarding), but I am very happy with the guidance I have gotten here on DigitalFAQ in a very short space of time.

One other thing: I did not quibble on price. I knew the BVTBC10 would have cost an arm and a leg "new"; and I respected Lordsmurf's premium he put on sourcing, inspecting, and refurbishing the unit.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg Screen Shot 2020-10-23 at 9.55.13 AM.jpg (61.3 KB, 11 downloads)
Reply With Quote
Someday, 12:01 PM
admin's Avatar
Ads / Sponsors
 
Join Date: ∞
Posts: 42
Thanks: ∞
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
  #2  
10-26-2020, 02:29 PM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 9,968
Thanked 1,695 Times in 1,473 Posts
Lot to unpack here...

First of all, for anybody reading, you must understand that there are both GOOD and BAD units, for both of these TBCs. Most BVTBC units are crap, and have a menu of problems. The units can range from unusable, to flawed (but workable, in some situations), to amazingly nice. Those nice units are early production models. The BVTBC can be better than a green AVT-8710, to worse than a black AVT-8710. My suggestion is to stay away from these units, unless I've tested them. Again, most BVTBC/8/10 are bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by motivus View Post
All Hail Lord Smurf!!


Quote:
It is absolutely clear that the guidance you will receive on this forum about the black model AVT-8710s is absolutely true. If you are trying to put together a solid analog video capture system you should absolutely avoid these.
Repeated because it can never be repeated enough!

Quote:
Gone is the routine tearing
(See attachment. Capture with the 8710 on the Left; Capture with the new BVTBC10 on the Right.)
Interesting. I never observed much tearing benefits. Must re-test.

Quote:
I have observed, however, that my BVTBC10 does cause a desaturation of color (toward black-and-white) on the extreme left side of the capture (vertical). But as it's only on the order of 10 or so pixels wide it's almost imperceptible. It may be more pronounced in the BlackMagic Media Express preview window than in the saved file.
There are a lot of variables that can cause this. However, that's true of most oeverscan issues/noise/defects. That's why that area is overscanned.

Quote:
Also, on captures where the BVTBC10 is wrestling sync you can see that the picture gets shifted by a few pixels to the right. This leaves a very thin vertical black bar on the extreme left of the image.
Image offset happens with all TBCs. The AVT-8710 is probably one of the best for "full screen" (but that should never sway you towards or away from it, it's just one property of many).

Quote:
using software by Topaz Labs to sharpen up and turn select footage into high-definition (HD) via interpolation.
Yuck. Avisynth nnedi rpow2 is better, combined with some other filters. There are far too many oddities left by that Topaz software. The "AI" has pretty crappy forward-looking intelligence, not too different from a bad deepfake. Remember that Topaz has always been known as a low-level (newbie-ware) photo plugin company. They misuse the term "AI" for marketing, which is irritating. Many of the before/after shots are simulated BS. Don't fall prey/sucker to any of that.

Quote:
but I am very happy with the guidance I have gotten here on DigitalFAQ in a very short space of time.


Quote:
One other thing: I did not quibble on price. I knew the BVTBC10 would have cost an arm and a leg "new"; and I respected Lordsmurf's premium he put on sourcing, inspecting, and refurbishing the unit.
Appreciated. VCRs and TBCs can literally take me months to refurb.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- Find television shows, cartoons, DVDs and Blu-ray releases at the TVPast forums.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
10-29-2020, 09:56 AM
motivus motivus is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 17
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Roger your disclaimer regarding my summation which missed the subtle / finer points.

RE tearing -- Yes, the BVTBC10 that you sent me dramatically reduces instances of tearing that I was experiencing with the black 8710. This is not to say that it doesn't occur; it just occurs much less frequently. And when it does occur it may not distort the entire top portion of the capture. There may just be a fine black "rounded corner" up in the extreme left corner of the screen.

RE picture offset -- what I referred to as a "thin black bar" -- the reason I called it a black bar is because it is not a true offset. As the BVTBC10 wrestles sync in difficult sections you can see video pixels appear intermittently along the extreme left margin of the screen. So it appears that the black (no picture) offset is a vertical bar. It's jiggling around. This must be an artifact.

RE upsampling / sharpening captured SD to HD -- THANKS FOR THE TIP / OPINE on Topaz Labs! I will check out Avisynth nnedi rpow2... I am unfamiliar. But Gigapixel AI was recently in the news with some guy dramatically enhancing famous footage of a train arrival in 1890s France.

RE the use of "AI" in any and all marketing -- AGREED!!!!
Reply With Quote
Reply




Tags
avt8710, bvtbc10, capture, hi8

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Keywest BigVoodoo BVTBC10 glitching? Artex Capture, Record, Transfer 6 07-22-2020 01:35 PM
Key West Voo Doo BVTBC10 cable needed Cyclone82 Restore, Filter, Improve Quality 1 02-03-2018 10:31 PM
Big Voodoo BVTBC10 settings? Pedestal? Patlamm Restore, Filter, Improve Quality 2 03-17-2015 01:20 PM
Wanted: green/black AVT-8710 TBC vhsdigital34 Marketplace 0 04-04-2014 02:27 PM

Thread Tools



 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:16 PM