Quantcast Cheapest budget TBC for below $100? - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
12-31-2020, 04:21 PM
ThomasFan1945Pro ThomasFan1945Pro is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 28
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hi there! I am new here, but I've seen many of your posts on Digitialfaq. I want to know what's the cheapest budget TBC below $100. Just so you all know, I don't have a budget on getting an S-VHS player but I do have a standard VCR. The VCR name is, "RCA Accusearch vr546." It's a standard mono, AV and Antenna input/output. I have a DazzleDVC100 capture card that I capture my tapes with AV input, but the captures look ok. Not excellent, just ok. My laptop is a msi A6200 and I know it's not the best in terms of CPU as it's an old laptop. It captures tapes the best it could and many of my captures don't look bad. Despite this, I want to know if a TBC; such as, the Panasonic DMR-es15 or es10, are recommended for helping have less potential of having null frames or frames freezing while capturing? I know that AV is not the best option for restorations, nor mono same way. I also need a TBC to also prevent flagging, as some of my tapes have this problem with flagging. I also recently cleaned the heads in the VCR, as they never been cleaned since used. Also note, I'm wanting archive in the best, if not excellent quality. I would like do restorations, but that won't be likely.

I have an example with flagging on the top and this is also my first capture. I had issues with audio at first, but they have been fixed after this video was published. You'll see the flagging slightly on the top.
https://youtu.be/o54cPnRQQY8
Two of my recent Blank Tapes I got for Christmas that I uploaded commercial breaks on my archive channel.
https://youtu.be/yRx5oLpvUoU
https://youtu.be/FurRninf9I0
Any help would be appreciated, thanks.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg SM1999.mkv_snapshot_02.03.539.jpg (190.3 KB, 6 downloads)
Reply With Quote
Someday, 12:01 PM
admin's Avatar
Ads / Sponsors
 
Join Date: ∞
Posts: 42
Thanks: ∞
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
  #2  
12-31-2020, 04:31 PM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 11,360
Thanked 2,041 Times in 1,762 Posts
TBCs are not under $100. Under $1k, but not $100.

Not even the ES10/15 (not a TBC, but can be TBC-like sometimes) is not under $100 most of the time. It's under $200.

That's a truly terrible VCR.
Not a great capture card, but also not the worst.

That laptop is amazing quality next to the crappy video gear. An i5 system, right?

You need the ES10/15 at minimum.
What you've uploaded to Youtube is a travesty of quality.
I'm a cartoon collector.
Sailor Moon sucks ... but the Pokemon, the promos, the bumpers, the commercials.

Please get the ES10 or ES15, do better.
A VHS VCR is bad enough, but mono? I've gotten better VCRs for $10 at Goodwill.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
Reply With Quote
  #3  
12-31-2020, 04:35 PM
ThomasFan1945Pro ThomasFan1945Pro is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 28
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Still tho, it looks better than nothing right? I had this VCR for 5 years and started capturing tapes since this year. Recently, I checked on Digitalfaq for digitizing tips. Also, it looks better on my TV and is more stable through Television, than from capture.

Also, my laptop if I recalled is probably 2009, later or older? Intel Core i3, Generation 1.

To top on that, these were captured without a TBC. This is why I asked in the beginning.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
12-31-2020, 04:52 PM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 11,360
Thanked 2,041 Times in 1,762 Posts
Better than nothing? Not really. It's just a tease. Good quality could exist, but didn't.

Get the ES10/15. It will still sound lousy, but at least sound can be addressed whereas bad timing cannot.

An i3 laptop is fine. I still use an i7 from 2012 (upgraded with more RAM and SSD), but those aren't that far apart compared to now. System should be fine, capture card is minimally fine, VCR = ugh, no TBC is unacceptable for quality. Part of the reason the quality is so bad is again that VCR. Tapes should not have that level of wiggle and tearing.

Under $100 = no.
But under $200, maybe $150 (taxed/shipped) for ES10/15 these days.

I want to see good quality captures of vintage TV shows and commercials.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
Reply With Quote
  #5  
12-31-2020, 05:16 PM
ThomasFan1945Pro ThomasFan1945Pro is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 28
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I'll see at some point in the future on getting a newer used VCR. My Papa Ronnie has a DVD/VCR combo Philips, but the VCR side is messed up. I insert tape, doesn't place in properly, spits out. The left part of the mechanism is not placed properly. This VCR is stereo.

Also, it looks like this. See attached image please.

Would you recommend this VCR/DVD combo for quality, despite not being S-VHS or with S-Video?


Attached Images
File Type: jpg 4106M6N040L._AC_.jpg (9.7 KB, 8 downloads)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
12-31-2020, 05:49 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 1,898
Thanked 318 Times in 294 Posts
The first and second samples have severe line timing, you would need a VCR with line TBC, ES10/15 may or may not address the problem, The second sample has tracking problems not sure if baked in the tape or the VCR is miss tracking, The 3rd sample has frame drop and an external TBC may help fix that.

You are nowhere near okay, Tapes are tricky and need some basic VCR knowledge to help figure out what the problems are and what gear needed to address them all but certainly not a frame TBC alone and most certainly not under $100 budget for all the gear, If only few tapes that don't exist on blu-ray/DVD just send them out for proper capture and obtain the rest on DVD or Blu-ray.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
12-31-2020, 05:55 PM
ThomasFan1945Pro ThomasFan1945Pro is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 28
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I just can't afford a bunch of expensive equipment, which is why I have created this thread in ths beginning. A newer used Standard VCR can probably help fix the quality, but It's what I currently need to make decent digitizations. Despite not being a TBC, Panasonic DMR-ES15 or ES10 may likely help solve most of the flagging or better yet, at least make the picture somewhat clearer. (Probably not possible.) Then again, this is what I currently got and $1000 is just way too expensive. I'd be better off getting the things I have mentioned.
To also mention, eBay sells Pansonic DMR-ES15s or ES10s often below 100. Sometimes with or without a remote.
I even watched the Ultimate VHS Capture guide from N0telu.
https://youtu.be/KdGDwNwmyVo
He even demonstrated with or without a TBC, so the Panasonic DMR-ES15 or 10 can at least somewhat may fix issues with tapes.
https://youtu.be/NelmaZhwBHY
Another mention, if I send my tapes to a facility to digitize, how can I get them back if they never return the tape via shipping? That could mean trouble.

My best option would probaly be getting a Cloner Alliance Pro box and it could be the best way to digitize analog tapes. I don't believe it has a TBC either. (Nevermind)
I just read this forum.
Best time base corrector for Betamax and VHS?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
12-31-2020, 06:36 PM
hodgey hodgey is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,275
Thanked 328 Times in 280 Posts
An ES10/ES15 should help a fair bit with the tearing at the top and frame drops. You may want to at least use a hi-fi VCR unless you are sure the tape only has mono sound. Hi-Fi audio is going to be miles better than mono if the tape has unless the tape is very degraded.

As far as I know, most NTSC Philips VCR/DVD combo decks are made by Funai. Funai VCRs (other than the early 80s ones) are extremely cheaply made and often have mechanism issues causing tape eating or worse, so not so surprising that yours has issues too. It can sometimes be fixed by cleaning the mode switch which sits under the mechanism but even then they're pretty dodgy. Some philips combos are made by LG (which are a bit better), but that seems to be mostly or exclusively ones sold in PAL markets.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
12-31-2020, 06:43 PM
ThomasFan1945Pro ThomasFan1945Pro is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 28
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Would I just be better off finding a VCR/DVD Dubbing combo instead of capturing through capture card? If so, what's the best cheapest VCR/DVD combo available to dub VHS Tapes to DVD in HQ?

Also, to clarify what the blanks tapes of what brand is used.
The Sailor Moon Blank tape was recorded with Fujifilm Pro120.
The PokéMon Blank Tape I have no clue what brand it is other than it says T120Sony on the tape itself.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
12-31-2020, 10:21 PM
mjb2019 mjb2019 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 21
Thanked 10 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasFan1945Pro View Post
Would I just be better off finding a VCR/DVD Dubbing combo instead of capturing through capture card?
It'd be simpler, but DVD-Video has limitations; it's not "archival". It uses lossy MPEG-2 video with 4:2:0 color. Fast motion or high detail will get blocky. You'll need to use high bitrates for quality, but if you go too high, it will not play on some hardware. So no, you won't be better off, given that you stated quality as the primary goal. Also a combo unit won't work with commercial tapes that use Macrovision.

The problems in your videos are mainly only correctable via hardware choices, so you shouldn't expect a cheap, late-model combo unit to provide a superior experience. Nevertheless, if you already happen to have one, or can score one for cheap, it certainly wouldn't hurt to see what kind of results you get capturing from the VCR portion of such a combo unit, and just ignore the DVD recording side; maybe it will track your tapes better (your clips show some problems in that area), and at the very least, it'll do hi-fi audio, and may even have S-Video output (but with a good comb filter? who knows).

Based on my limited experience: I don't think a DMR-ES15 will help with the vertical bounce very much, but it will help a lot with the side-to-side jitter and the flagging. The vertical bounce adversely affects deinterlacing, and the only reliable and complete solution for that, AFAIK, is a real TBC. JVC S-VHS decks have a picture stabilization setting which might help, but it didn't work at all for the tapes I tried.

Last edited by mjb2019; 12-31-2020 at 10:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
The following users thank mjb2019 for this useful post: ThomasFan1945Pro (01-01-2021)
  #11  
01-01-2021, 02:13 AM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 11,360
Thanked 2,041 Times in 1,762 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjb2019 View Post
Based on my limited experience: I don't think a DMR-ES15 will help with the vertical bounce very much, but it will help a lot with the side-to-side jitter and the flagging. The vertical bounce adversely affects deinterlacing, and the only reliable and complete solution for that,
The vertical bouncing (laymen jitter, not technical jitter aka wiggling) is likely related to the poor quality VCR, and the tracking. Even the jitter/wiggling is likely related to the crappy VCR. Simply getting a better VCR, and the ES10 or ES15, will resolve most/all of the visual impact issues.

Because the visual quality is awful, not even enjoyably viewable (and therefore waste of time to convert with the current tools and extreme downgraded quality).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasFan1945Pro View Post
Also, to clarify what the blanks tapes of what brand is used.
The Sailor Moon Blank tape was recorded with Fujifilm Pro120.
The PokéMon Blank Tape I have no clue what brand it is other than it says T120Sony on the tape itself.
These are not "blank tapes".

Lots of people sell homemade VCR-recorded tapes of TV shows and movies on eBay, which is against the rules. So to skirt the rules, the tapes are "being sold as blank". But the tapes are not blank, these are not "blank tapes". The are homemade tapes, with al the problems of home recordings. It's not much different than 'backing up" Blockbuster Video, then selling the "blank tape" copy for $10-20 each (which is what "blank tapes" sometimes sell for, depending on the contents).

For (desperate) TV and movies collectors, it's a (as usual with eBay) gambly way to locate rare commercials, unreleased toons and TV shows, movies, etc. But more often than not, the tapes are just random crap in random quality (sometimes misrecorded). In my hobby life, I've handled a few of these for friends. Very often, the "blank tapes" appear to be reused and re-recorded over, with the person keeping the master copy to run another "blank tape" copy later. This was eBay in the 90s, full of home bootlegs, it's how lots of us found rare stuff (in addition to comic conventions).

Fuji Pro is a horrible tape, that explains dropouts and grain.
Sony is likely the cheap "Premium Grade" tape (nonsense marketing term).

So please, none of this "blank tape" nonsense, call a spade a spade.

BTW, I'm actually quite interested in the toy commercials, including one I saw in one of the above samples. The quality is pitiful, far below my standards, so I really do want to help you make it look better. Better quality does exist on the tape. The problem is your not extracting it properly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasFan1945Pro View Post
Cloner Alliance Pro box
Garbage, waste of money. VHS tapes are not HD video games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hodgey View Post
An ES10/ES15
Right now, this is essential. It's a waste of time to even capture without it.

Normal ES10/15 prices are in the low/mid/high $100s range. But sometimes you can find a unit local on Craigslist, Facebook, in the flea market, at Goodwill, etc. (In these pandemic times, I consider those shopping/meetup type activities to be the ultimate exercise of stupidity, but some people do it anyway. You may get more than just an ES10/15 with the local route, rather than safely shopping at home on eBay.)

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
Reply With Quote
  #12  
01-01-2021, 02:57 AM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 1,898
Thanked 318 Times in 294 Posts
Now that you've mentioned safety, Few months ago during the peak of the pandemic I bought a high end HD-DVD player with 65 HD-DVD movies locally for the price that I can't just sit at home and let it go by, So I geared up with mask, gloves and goggles and picked them up, I let the bag sit in the trunk of my car for over a month before I took it out and used the items,
Reply With Quote
The following users thank latreche34 for this useful post: lordsmurf (01-01-2021)
  #13  
01-01-2021, 04:16 AM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 11,360
Thanked 2,041 Times in 1,762 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
Now that you've mentioned safety, Few months ago during the peak of the pandemic I bought a high end HD-DVD player with 65 HD-DVD movies locally for the price that I can't just sit at home and let it go by, So I geared up with mask, gloves and goggles and picked them up, I let the bag sit in the trunk of my car for over a month before I took it out and used the items,
For the record, the new peak is now.

But yes, isolating anything external is what needs to be done -- and that includes your regular mail and packages. A few days minimum for paper/cardboard, 2 weeks maximum for certain surfaces like metal/glass. Or wipe it down completely with disinfectant wipes. Every nook, every fold.

Mask, goggles, gloves, all perfect. The mask is only effective if BOTH PARTIES are wearing masks, and properly (cover nose AND mouth). A "mask" is also a mask, not a handkerchief or bandanna or whatever (porous cloth).

You did well.

Any venturing out is still a risk, but you hopefully mitigated it.

This may seem off-topic, but not if this person plans to venture out for local options.

I do not want to be the person that says "yeah, go out and buy __", and then the person gets COVID.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
Reply With Quote
Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Simple Budget Setup for VHS to Mac jadoss23 Project Planning, Workflows 2 11-08-2019 02:31 PM
VHS to digital on a $150 budget? SoCalBoy Capture, Record, Transfer 3 07-19-2019 03:08 PM
VHS to DVD with $150 budget? via Email or PM Project Planning, Workflows 1 02-18-2014 08:02 AM

Thread Tools



 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:27 AM