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-   -   How to begin with archiving VHS? (http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-capture/11371-how-archiving-vhs.html)

DANI3L 01-11-2021 07:24 AM

How to begin with archiving VHS?
 
Hello everyone!

Just wanted to archive every VHS that my parents have.
I started reading anything on this forum and I got some equipment already but I was stuck at a couple of things.

So from my VCR it outputs to my AV2HDMI (MINI) Upscaler, which I had before starting this.
And from what I've read its not good for quality because the upscaler does some nasty stuff inside.
But the problem is that I need the HDMI out because my Capture Card which is (Razer Ripsaw HD)
Has only HDMI input, so this is my problem currently.

What should I do?

About the software I use OBS with resolution of 352x480 25FPS PAL which I read is the best for VHS.
I use OBS because It uses the NVENC encoder from my RTX 2060 gpu which from what I heard can really help in getting the best out of the VHS or anything at all..

Please correct me where I'm wrong. I really want to get the best quality from the VHS... because these stuff are old and I'm afraid they will stop working one day.
And what can I do about the RCA TO HDMI? Is there any special boxes that dont upscale it?

themaster1 01-11-2021 07:36 AM

Vhs is either 480i (ntsc)( i= interlaced half frames) or 576i (pal).
The lowest signal your card suppirt is 480p ( p=full frames) so that's a problem.
352480 is ok (half D1 dvd), but i suggest you record 720480 or 704 x480.
I use nvenc but not for vhs capture, it's not the right codec. Lagarith or huffyuv is just right.
Best luck to you

DANI3L 01-11-2021 08:30 AM

I tried at 720x480 but because the AV2HDMI is upscaling it to 720p or 1080p it gets stretched and has black bars at the bottom and top..

JPMedia 01-11-2021 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DANI3L (Post 74221)
About the software I use OBS with resolution of 352x480 25FPS PAL which I read is the best for VHS.
I use OBS because It uses the NVENC encoder from my RTX 2060 gpu which from what I heard can really help in getting the best out of the VHS or anything at all..

Do not use OBS for analog video capture. For best results use VirtualDub or AmaRecTV.

I have to ask where you got the advice to use OBS for analog video capture? Is there a particular YouTuber or Twitch streamer who is telling newcomers to use OBS?

latreche34 01-11-2021 11:42 AM

Obviously you've been doing it wrong for a long time, There is a section in this forum about capture card recommendation just read it. and stop using OBS, It's a streaming software not a capture software.

lordsmurf 01-11-2021 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DANI3L (Post 74221)
to my AV2HDMI (MINI) Upscaler, which I had before starting this.

Nope. That's not useful here. These work well enough to play an old analog game system on your HDTV, maybe even connected a VCR to a HDTV (debatable), but that's it. It has no place in a capture workflow.

Quote:

And from what I've read its not good for quality because the upscaler does some nasty stuff inside.
Correct.

Quote:

But the problem is that I need the HDMI out because my Capture Card which is (Razer Ripsaw HD)
Has only HDMI input, so this is my problem currently.
What should I do?
You have SD source. You need a (quality!) SD capture card.
Not an HD card. Save the HD card for HD sources.
Don't use the wrong tool for a task. Don't bang the screw with a hammer, don't hit the nail with a screwdriver. Yes, it will "work", but badly, and it'll look awful.

Quote:

About the software I use OBS
Nope. Again, wrong tool.
OBS is streaming recording (not capture!) software.
Analog video capture is not a digital stream that should be recorded like a webcam.

Quote:

with resolution of 352x480 25FPS PAL which I read is the best for VHS.
Nope. PAL VHS is about 250-300x576 resolution. While you can capture it as 352x576 (Half D1 PAL), there days it's more ideal to capture as 720x576 max res SD (Full D1). The main reason being that software understand Full D1 better than Half D1, and not everything scales as well as it should.

Quote:

I use OBS because It uses the NVENC encoder from my RTX 2060 gpu which from what I heard can really help in getting the best out of the VHS or anything at all..
Uh ... huh? No.

Quote:

I really want to get the best quality from the VHS... because these stuff are old and I'm afraid they will stop working one day.
Standard workflow for quality = VCR > TBC > capture card
Not just any VCR/TBC/card, but items known for quality.
TBC is not optional, some form of TBC is required when working with consumer analog formats.

Quote:

And what can I do about the RCA TO HDMI? Is there any special boxes that dont upscale it?
I have one. Use it where it belongs. It doesn't go in the capture hardware chain. (Some would say "trash it", which is harshly true in a capture-only sense. But it's a tool for another non-capturing task, so leave it in that drawer.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by themaster1 (Post 74222)
Vhs is either 480i (ntsc)( i= interlaced half frames) or 576i (pal).
The lowest signal your card suppirt is 480p ( p=full frames) so that's a problem.
352480 is ok (half D1 dvd), but i suggest you record 720480 or 704 x480.
I use nvenc but not for vhs capture, it's not the right codec. Lagarith or huffyuv is just right.
Best luck to you

Correct. :congrats:

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPMedia (Post 74226)
Do not use OBS for analog video capture. For best results use VirtualDub

^ This. :congrats:

Quote:

Originally Posted by DANI3L (Post 74228)
When I started exploring about this I found this thread

That thread has bad advice.

For starters, the idea that VHS is 320x240 is a myth from decades ago. That hails from the VCD days, because users confused "240 lines" of analog resolution (240x if analog was notated in digital terms, which it isn't) with x240 of digital. The axis are not the same. VHS is interlaced, x480 is fixed, and 320x480 is a max theoretical with Kell factor (theory v. practice) whereas actual resolution is in the sub-300x480 range.

To sum it up, the poster there ("koala") is giving really bad resolution advice. (He recovers in later posts, somewhat, in discussing VirtualDub, need to capture 720x576 and deinterlace/resize in post-capture.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by DANI3L (Post 74229)
What can I do about the Capture Card? Should I get a different RCA TO USB Card? like the Elgato one?
Someone said I need to get a TBC, Do I really need to?

Yes, SD card. The exact card suggested depends on OS. What are you using?

No, no Elgato (which earned the nickname "Elcrapo")

Yes, some form of TBC is required, it's not optional. Without TBC, image look awful (wiggles, noise), dropped frames lead to audio sync skew.

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34 (Post 74231)
Obviously you've been doing it wrong for a long time,

Long time? I don't think that's his OBS forum post. ;)

Quote:

There is a section in this forum about capture card recommendation just read it.
I need to update that.

Quote:

and stop using OBS, It's a streaming software not a capture software.
Correct. :congrats:

DANI3L 01-12-2021 07:32 AM

First of all, Thank you very much for replying!
You really informed me, I have learned alot.

So yea, I stopped using OBS and Installed VirtualDub2.
And now I will record on 720x576 like you said

About the capture card,
I now understand that HDMI is out of this work, so I'm searching for an RCA TO USB Capture Card...
What do you think about the AverMedia EZMAKER 7?
I know the best of the best are these ATI Wonder Cards with a custom XP Machines but nah Its just an overkill for me...
I just need a recommendation for a decent RCA TO USB Capture Card

About the TBC, I actually never knew about these things before, yesterday I sat and learned about them :)
The problem is they are really expensive from eBay and I couldn't find any in my country...

I tried hooking up a cheap EasyCap card for like $10 to my VCR and I understand what you say about wiggles and noises, but they were not so big and noticeable, maybe because my parents really saved these vhs players and cassete tapes like new, I don't know..

Currently I will have to deal with that, maybe later I will consider buying a TBC..

lordsmurf 01-13-2021 07:30 PM

AIW isn't really "overkill", but simply a quality option. Another option is the ATI 600 USB and clones.

Wiggles are noise may not be "not so big" in a tiny preview window on the small computer monitor. But they are huge and distracting when you watch the footage on an HDTV. Even fullscreen on a monitor. If you're only watching videos on your phone, I guess so. But even on a tiny video, it's still obvious.

Timing issues are inherent to the VHS format, no amount of "like new" can prevent it.

Line TBC (ie, ES10/15, or better S-VHS VCR with line TBC) are what remove/prevent the wiggles. Not the external frame TBC, which is there to do frame-level corrections, which prevents dropped frames, which prevent audio sync loss.

Understand now? :)


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