Distorted colors during capturing?
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I am capturing PAL Hi8 tapes with a Sony CCD-TR820E ---S-Video---> green AVT-8710 ---S-Video---> Pinnacle 710-USB ---USB---> Windows XP with VirtualDub (more details here). However, I sometimes get extreme, blue-ish/purple discoloration, as if a color channel drops out (though I checked whether all connection where properly plugged in):
Attachment 12913 Attachment 12914
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I'm suspecting that the AVT-8710 is at fault but it can be easily verified by removing it from the workflow, Also some Pinnacle devices are built in MPEG-2 encoder chip so you can only get MPEG-2 out of them and maybe vdub is not coping well with MPEG-2 and decoding it on the fly, If it's the case get the one without the chip, it's usually a white shell, If you have the black shell chances are it is built in MPEG-2 chip.
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JVC PAL > green AVT-8710 > 710-USB is one of my usual PAL workflows. Quote:
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For some tapes it happens almost all the time, for some it only happens after a while. The problem exists for both S-Video and composite connections to the AVT-8710. When both are connected, either unplugging or plugging the S-Video connection restores the colors to normal (I assume the AVT-8710 automatically detects the composite input when the S-Video disappears), and pausing and playing on the camcorder also restores the colors. The (composite and S-Video) connections from the AVT-8710 to the 710 never changed anything, so I don't think the problem is there. Anyone got any ideas? I'm quite concerned, since it is by far the most expensive component. |
Has it ever overheated?
What is the longest that it's ever been plugged in? Have you considered modding it with heatsinks on the chips? The plastic Cypress units overheat, and the heat dissipation is lousy. Be very careful plugging/unplugging power without a rest/cooldown period. Did you try the broken camera > TBC > TV/computer? It may be a workflow conflict issue, two pieces (or more?)) of hardware hate one another. That happens. Don't be too quick to place blame, that's not science. Careful testing/experimenting is needed to confirm observations, don't just run with the first hastily guessed cause from a single observation. It may still NOT be the AVT-8710 at this current time. |
If you don't have audio sync problems and the video is stable capture without the AVT at least for the tapes that trigger this phenomenon.
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Attachment 12918 Again, pausing and playing or plugging and unplugging resets the colors back to normal. Could it be an overheating problem? What can I try next? |
What happens if you turn off the line TBC on the Sony TR820E?
Just a general troubleshooting thing but you might try another suitable power supply for the AVT-8710. It uses 12V 500mA, which is standard enough. The problem is that it's center negative polarity, which is quite non-standard. See this thread (from one of your compatriots in NL) for more specs/links: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...lug-green.html |
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I lost track of which one does what, it's been years now. |
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Does anyone have advice on what to do next? The color difference is marginal (though may this vary with other, older tapes?): Attachment 12919 And I would of course like to have distortions fixed in tapes, should those pop up. What are the chances of buying another camcorder and having its line TBC be compatible with my AVT-8710? Is the same problem likely to occur? Is that worth it, or should I just forget about line TBC altogether? |
Great! Glad you got it sorted (although maybe double check with a couple other tapes that were problematic before to make sure it's fixed).
It was just a wild guess... a line TBC in the VCR/camera and a frame TBC in the AVT-8710 shouldn't conflict, but man... with analog video you just never know. Sometimes you just have to try different combinations of things to get a good transfer. You might want to check prices on a used Panasonic ES10 or ES15 DVD recorder to add to your toolkit. They're dirt cheap compared to an AVT-8710 or TBC 1000. You don't use the DVD burning function of them--you pass your signal through them just iike your AVT-8710. They have some amount of line TBC (lordsmurf calls them TBCish) as well as frame sync. So for cases like these problematic tapes, you would do: CAM (TBC Off) --> ES10/ES15 --> AVT-8710 --> Capture card No guarantees that would help, but an ES10 or ES15 is not a bad investment to have around if you will be doing analog capture. Edit: You could of course also try a different Hi8/D8 camera with line TBC. But most of the good ones are Sonys, and I fear that they probably use the same TBC process as your TR820E. Maybe someone else will have other suggestions. |
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Ideally you want both line/field and frame TBC, but there are cases when only one or the other gives you the best capture. And perhaps cases where neither is the best choice. This hobby seems to require a lot of tinkering to get quality results! |
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Software MPEG capturing sucks, the end, no exceptions. The best it ever got was the buggy beta-quality MainConcept 1.3/4 offering. Pinnacle Studio captures AVI, and compressed in software realtime to MPEG. It's terrible. I forget if Studio forced-deinterlaces (or if it only did that in some versions), but the MPEG was blurry and blocky. It's not like the AIW (hybrid hardware-assist MPEG, sort of like modern GPU encode/decode), or actual hardware encoders (some of which still look terrible, so being hardware isn't a guarantee for quality). Quote:
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- Po-TAY-to, po-TAH-to. - Six one way, half a dozen the other. Being different, and in the minority, doesn't really make it "non-standard". Both are standards. Quote:
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Some users, novices especially, are too eager to go for "brands" and "models" of hardware, without any regard to condition of the 15-25 year-old items. So while a certain brand/model of camera or VCR is suggested, that exact unit may be a lemon. But you won't learn that until testing and usage. Or in the case of many novices, no testing, learn in usage. Or worse, learn only AFTER usage, when finally watching/viewing their unattended captures. In this situation, with what we know now, after the process of elimination (good job, everybody!), it's probably a bad capacitor in the camera. That happens. Quote:
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I've used dozens of combinations of cameras, capture cards, and (with/without) TBCs. The simply fact of the matter is that Hi8/Video loves to drop frames. For example, when the home-shot tape has a scene change, with unrecorded tape snow between, even with a line TBC enabled, the video may drop 15 frames. That's a half second. You now have a noticeable audio desync. Hi8/Video8 drops more than VHS, in my year of experience. Some people never see that, but it's mostly due to how the tapes were shot (camera work), the quality of the shooting camera, and the ability of the playback camera to match the shooting conditions. That's a lot of if/but's. I'm neutral on that exact Pinnacle card, there are worse, there are better. It's unremarkable, nothing special. Just a card that will chug along, for better or worse. (I had one, sold it long ago.) I do wish I'd have opened it before selling, to snap a shot of the board chips. If you could do that sometime, and PM me, I would appreciate it. But also noting that Pinnacle/Dazzle had many revisions, some not publicized on the casing. Quote:
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Thanks for all the help, everyone!
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I have noticed the image going weird on a handful of tapes on the TRV66e, though that seemed to be reproducible rather than random and I'm not sure if it was exactly the same effect as here, (while the older Sony Hi8 VCRs didn't mess up the image in the same spot.)
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I usually just use my pioneer or sony DVR as passthrough when capturing 8mm tapes (as my datavideo TBC has some noise issue and a bit of image offset), but if the vertical sync / top of image area is messed up you do need something pretty solid to capture without frame drops yeah, so I use an ES10 or EH57 as passthrough for that. Those issues are not all that common though. I've found that having a hitachi D8 camcorder as a backup has been useful in some of those cases since it doesn't blue-screen like the Sonys. The pinnacle 500 does have a video chip from NXP related to those used in the datavideo tbcs, so while it may not have the frame TBC/buffering to correct for sync loss it is at least a step up compared to many other capture cards when it comes to handling dodgy video signals. |
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But an ES10/ES15 would likely be cheaper to acquire, and would be useful if you had other kinds of analog tape to transfer (VHS/VHS-C, Beta, etc.). And unless the tapes have severe time base errors, then having stronger line TBC correction may not even matter. If you opt to get another camcorder, you might want to look for a different brand just in case the problem you're having is with Sony's TBC implementation rather than your specific cam having a defect in its TBC circuit. hodgey seems to have had good luck with Hitachi, so maybe that's an avenue to explore. If you decide to get a D8 camera just make sure that you get one that can play back Video8/Hi8. I think I read that some D8 camcorders aren't backwards compatible (though I myself have no experience with D8). Quote:
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