Quantcast VHS s-video/SCART/HDMI capture? - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
02-02-2021, 07:31 PM
royallen royallen is offline
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i have a jvc professional vcr/dvd combo with tbc etc and i would like to transfer from vhs to my pc with minimal editing afterwards. i would like to use an hdmi upscaler that plugs to usb on my computer and capture vhs to pc. Should i buy an s-video to hdmi adapter then into an hdmi to usb capture device or should i buy a device that the inputs s-video converts it to scart then into a scart upscaler that outputs to hdmi then to the hdmi capture device. I've watched some videos on youtube and i would be using obs to capture to whichever format is best for only minor editing such as converting the ratio back to 4:3. I've used a haupauge pvr capture device and obs would recognize it but virtualdub would not. I am just looking for simplicity with decent results. i've driven myself crazy by copying the vhs tape to a dvd recorder that does not have s-video inputs and then rip the dvd and try to make it look better with virtualdub and a few more editors. I have no idea how to work avisynth but did try hybrid to run a few scripts i found here. Thanks for any type of help
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  #2  
02-04-2021, 04:38 AM
Eric-Jan Eric-Jan is offline
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First .... a professional vcr/dvd combo ? never heard of that, (it's a consumers device most likely, like the ES35V which is also multi-system device, with YUV out) please mention type & model number PAL/NTSC etc...
Using HDMI to "capture" is not a good idea because it has a handshake & protection "mechanism" using HDMI is a mis and hit gamble, more mis .....
better use composite, s-video, or component if available check the specs of the manual of this device.
If it's really a professional device, maybe it has no HDCP protection, but i can't say that for certain.
The "simplicity" you are looking for, will be on Youtube, but notice exactly which converter is used, make and model number, because any other converter will not work.... because of HDMI ! converting through converters and HDMI will give extra distortion (bad image quality) and will added to the already poor analog VHS quality.
What's your budget btw ?
Your combo (if it is really a recorder combo) already might give a stable analog video output, which you can capture with a normal capture device, like Avermedia or Dazzle. no TBC needed.
HDMI capture devices most likely capture straight to MP4, if you don't want to edit, that's okay for you, but HDMI "will fight you"

Last edited by Eric-Jan; 02-04-2021 at 04:58 AM.
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  #3  
02-04-2021, 12:24 PM
royallen royallen is offline
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Here is the pdf link to the vcr/dvd combo model sr-mv40u.*https://content.abt.com/documents/10...-MV40US_om.pdf . My thinking was i could capture with obs with the hdmi capture device and can capture to a lossless format if i want to filter a few things in virtualdub but really i would be happy just being able to trim the noise around the edges and the picture look as good as the original or maybe a little better. I'm not wanting to spend over $100 because it doesn't have to be perfect and i've not worked in awhile because of covid. i've got some time on my hands and i've copied from vhs to dvd on this unit and it looks ok but the youtube video i watched seemed to do a really good job and was a simple setup and as you say the device the guy was capturing with went straight to mp4 on a usb drive then he would load the video to his computer and adjust the ratio from 16:9 back to 4:3. I was going to order the same setup he has but then i watched another guy using a similar setup but he was in France i believe and pal as you know is their type system. He used a scart to hdmi to capture. I appreciate your reply and help .
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02-04-2021, 12:40 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is online now
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There is nothing pro about VHS, it's a consumer format, even the bulky decks that were designed to playback and record VHS/S-VHS tapes are just for small studio and hobbyists not full fledged studios like ABC, NBC or BBC.

OBS is not a capture software for analog sources, it just captures the screen or a camera stream. Analog video has different requirements.
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  #5  
02-04-2021, 12:51 PM
royallen royallen is offline
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I guess it's a better than consumer grade of vcr and it says professional on the front so i guess it's commercial grade. i used obs with a hauppauge hd pvr and it gave better color results than using the hauppauge capture sofware but i'm not arguing your point i watched a few videos on using it to capture with because virtualdub would not work with the model i had. thanks for your help
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  #6  
02-04-2021, 04:03 PM
Eric-Jan Eric-Jan is offline
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to royallen:
although not a professional device, your SR-MV40US should be exellent to capture video from, the VHS deck outputs also in progressive over the component video output it has, but a capture device for that is above your budget, (but it would be the best option, the component video output it has, was added for the early LCD/TFT flatpanel tv's which had no HDMI yet.
But my guess is the SR-MV40US has a stable video signal on every video output, because it is a combo device, and has the needed electronics for it, so a Dazzle or All In Wonder capture device will not have any problems to capture.
You should really forget about these HDMI capture dongles, these are made for gamers, not for an analog source, with or without any converter, these converters are mostly meant for live viewing, where a tv is more forgiving. that's why these converts are cheap.
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02-04-2021, 04:22 PM
royallen royallen is offline
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Thanks again for great advice and i'll try as you suggested. I really appreciate your help and i'll order as you suggested instead of the hdmi capture device. The youtube was interesting and the guy seems pretty intelligent https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC5Zr3NC2PY and he did a follow up video because he received a lot of comments about this setup. I was in the process of ordering his type setup then i saw this next video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRJqxIbi5UA and this was on a pal setup and the first time i had heard of a scart connection. Anyway i'll do as you suggest and tweak very little then i have a few that i'll convert to dvd and burn for some family members and i'll store all the others on a large external hard drive. Thanks again.
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02-04-2021, 04:43 PM
Eric-Jan Eric-Jan is offline
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"the guy seems pretty intelligent" ? no not really... pretty simple is more acurate, because all stands or falls with exact the same devices he uses, he makes it look simple, but HDMI is really treacherous.... anything can go wrong, you just can't use any device, but it must be exactly the same ones, (his home-theater-reciever is also in his capture setup) even a wrong batch, firmware, or cable, can spoil it.
your SR-MV40US is really a good starting point for a capture setup, and the internal TBC is a big advantage although you can't compare that with a pro-TBC.
You should carefully read the manual of the SR-MV40US to get into the different modes, or to set certain features, there are also different button combinations to push, that can be a bit anoying....
the JVC SR-MV40US looks very much like my Panasonic DMR-ES35V which I'm using with the very picky BlackMagic Design Intensity Shuttle to capture.
But don't forget your PC/laptop should also be up against "it" .. fast storage and enough system RAM will help also, to slow and you will also have dropped frames, which will be noticeable through out of sync audio.
Beware of these easycap dongles, these are all copies of an original one, that is out of bussines.
Do some research for the Dazzle device, and look for the user expierences

Last edited by Eric-Jan; 02-04-2021 at 05:11 PM.
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  #9  
02-04-2021, 04:56 PM
royallen royallen is offline
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Yea maybe he's just convincing to a novice like me lol. I have read that people using similar jvc vcr's say to turn off the video stabilizer and noise reduction feature if capturing from these type units. The good thing is all these vhs home movie tapes were recorded sp instead of sp or slp which looks horrible. I also have 8mm and hi8 and also digital 8 and mini dv tapes to capture eventually. I have a sony digital 8 camcorder that records in 1080i and uses mini dv tapes. i think it was a bit expensive in its day and i bought it for $20.00 just to play with. that camcorder records regular dv format or 1080i but must be transferred with firewire. thanks for all your information
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02-04-2021, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royallen View Post
The youtube was interesting and the guy seems pretty intelligent https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC5Zr3NC2PY
This guy is an idiot.

See my recent post here: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...er#post2607924

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Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
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Originally Posted by orsetto View Post
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Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
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Originally Posted by orsetto View Post
Note he specifies his HDMI method "is less complicated and more dependable than USB dongles"
Even that's malarkey. Several USB devices will be quite superior.
youTube guy said misses the context of why I was quoting him, his own context,
If you watch any of his other videos on Youtube, he clearly lacks experience and actual knowledge on the subject. A newbie won't realize it, but any of us with experience will wonder what the hell he's rambling about. A lot of his vlogs are mix of facts, myths, and semi-true statements.

His experience with USB capture is clearly minimal, and as a result he paints all USB capture with a broad brush. He doesn't comprehend that USB is just a communication port. You have good and bad USB, PCI, AGP, PCIe, Firewire, Thunderbolts, etc etc. Same for composite, s-video, component, HDMI etc. The device determines the device quality, not the I/O wires/ports used. He doesn't get that.

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the exact nature of his blurry "before" clips, which are somewhat misrepresented if you don't pay very close attention and aren't already versed in various capture methods.
Yep, semi-truths, lots of rambling and incoherence to anybody that knows about video.

Quote:
This does throw his entire presentation out of whack, because it becomes unintentionally disjointed and deceptive.
This is why I consider the guy an assclown. He's not helping anybody, he's leading them astray and they don't even realize it. He's literally the "fake news" of video capturing, with all of his distortions to facts.

Quote:
"Why VHS Transferred To MP4 Via Direct HDMI Game Capture Looks Sharper In youTube Presentations Than VHS Capture To An Old DVD-RAM Recorder Whose MPEGs Are Further Blurred By Re-encoding"
Yep.
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and he did a follow up video because he received a lot of comments about this setup
He was trying to double down on dumbassery. He did the video ONLY to defend his poor method, which was seen for the BS it was very early on. He can sucker newbies, but he's out of his depth. He has a "google degree" in video, aka zero real-world experience. And his online-only knowledge is a mishmash of true and nonsense. Sort of like saying USA landed on the moon (fact) before astronauts plotted 9/11 (ridiculous). But you, as a newbie, don't know what you don't know, so you fall for it.

Don't be suckered by him.

Quote:
. I was in the process of ordering his type setup then i saw this next video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRJqxIbi5UA
To be blunt, you're watching random Youtube video from people with no more experience than you have. Let's assume you're not a doctor. Do you want a surgeon watching a Youtube video that you made on how to perform surgery? That link is from a guy who mostly only has videogame links. He know jack about video either. It's just random pulled-from-ass "advice".

Is that what you want?

I can easily tell you to buy an Easycap for $3 off eBay, use the garbage software, and butcher the hell out of your videos. Because that's all those other people are doing. Different hardware, same results.

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  #11  
02-04-2021, 05:20 PM
royallen royallen is offline
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Thanks for your input and bluntness to the facts. I'll not waste my money on his magic boxes and order what was suggested and go from there. I appreciate your knowledge of this subject and will stick to some basics and be happy with the results instead of trying to understand so many technical things that i'm not versed in.
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  #12  
02-04-2021, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royallen View Post
Should i buy an s-video to hdmi adapter
No.
VHS is SD. SD card for SD video.
Never HD card for SD video, even if it claims to "also do" SD, it does so very badly.

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should i buy a device that the inputs s-video
Yes.

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converts it to scart
No.

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then into a scart upscaler that outputs to hdmi then to the hdmi capture device.
No.

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I've watched some videos on youtube
Don't do that. Any idiot can make a Youtube video, and many do. Vet the information, don't just blindly trust nonsense.

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I've used a haupauge pvr capture device
Model?

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and obs would recognize it but virtualdub would not.
1. It may have been your VirtualDub settings.
2. OBS is not analog capture software, but streaming screen recording software.

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I am just looking for simplicity with decent results. i've driven myself crazy by copying the vhs tape to a dvd recorder that does not have s-video inputs and then rip the dvd and try to make it look better with virtualdub and a few more editors. I have no idea how to work avisynth but did try hybrid to run a few scripts i found here. Thanks for any type of help
That method does work, but a bit round-about. However, trading it for a worse quality method is NOT what you want to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric-Jan View Post
First .... a professional vcr/dvd combo
JVC SR series S-VHS deck with line TBC + LSI DVD recorder.

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What's your budget btw ?
And hopefully realistic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by royallen View Post
mv40u.*
Good deck.

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My thinking was i could capture with obs with the hdmi capture device and can capture to a lossless format if i want to f
No. The hardware will fubar the video, nothing to restore, lossless is pointless and moot now.

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trim the noise around the edges and the picture
Mask, do not crop.

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I'm not wanting to spend over $100
A quality capture card can be had for under $150.

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the guy was capturing with went straight to mp4 on a usb drive then he would load the video to his computer and adjust the ratio from 16:9 back to 4:3.
That guy was not showing you everything, and his info is horribly misleading.

Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
There is nothing pro about VHS
- VCRs, yes.
- VHS, no. (Technically, small cable companies used VHS of in-house work, so in a way it was professional, because it was used professionally.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by royallen View Post
I guess it's a better than consumer grade of vcr and it says professional
Correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric-Jan View Post
your SR-MV40US should be exellent to capture video from
Yes.

Quote:
, the VHS deck outputs also in progressive over the component video output it has,
No. Don't do that.

Quote:
But my guess is the SR-MV40US has a stable video signal on every video output,
S-VHS VCR with line TBC.
No frame TBC.

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so a Dazzle or All In Wonder capture device will not have any problems to capture.
Again, no frame TBC. So ... no. Sometimes, maybe. Sometimes not, most assuredly.

Quote:
You should really forget about these HDMI capture dongles, these are made for gamers, not for an analog source, with or without any converter, these converters are mostly meant for live viewing, where a tv is more forgiving. that's why these converts are cheap.
Correct.

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  #13  
02-04-2021, 05:21 PM
Eric-Jan Eric-Jan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royallen View Post
Yea maybe he's just convincing to a novice like me lol. I have read that people using similar jvc vcr's say to turn off the video stabilizer and noise reduction feature if capturing from these type units. The good thing is all these vhs home movie tapes were recorded sp instead of sp or slp which looks horrible. I also have 8mm and hi8 and also digital 8 and mini dv tapes to capture eventually. I have a sony digital 8 camcorder that records in 1080i and uses mini dv tapes. i think it was a bit expensive in its day and i bought it for $20.00 just to play with. that camcorder records regular dv format or 1080i but must be transferred with firewire. thanks for all your information
the SR-MV40US will also be a good passthrough device for any other analog video camera using their composite or s-video outputs, also...the SR-MV40US has an DV(Firewire) input, you can try all options, and choose which you prefer, easy or quality
At the point where you are now, you should go for a good USB or card capture device, forget the Easycap/EZcap devices, small chance you find a good one .....Easycrap there is some good advise here and on Videohelp forums.

Last edited by Eric-Jan; 02-04-2021 at 05:40 PM.
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02-04-2021, 05:39 PM
royallen royallen is offline
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The hauppauge only says hdpvr and it's an older model that uses a 5 volt wall adapter. The software recorded mts-ts or just mts which i read are similar or the same. I researched if this could be used with virtualdub but didn't find a working answer, meaning i found someone suggesting how to try it with virtualdub and i changed those settings but still it didn't work. i could pay $150 for something decent to capture with. Sorry for such a post and i've read many things but most of it is like a foreign language to me because i have no background other than tweaking with things and hoping for lucky results. Yes masking instead of cropping i grasp thankfully. Again thank you for taking time to respond.
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  #15  
02-04-2021, 05:48 PM
Eric-Jan Eric-Jan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royallen View Post
The hauppauge only says hdpvr and it's an older model that uses a 5 volt wall adapter. The software recorded mts-ts or just mts which i read are similar or the same. I researched if this could be used with virtualdub but didn't find a working answer, meaning i found someone suggesting how to try it with virtualdub and i changed those settings but still it didn't work. i could pay $150 for something decent to capture with. Sorry for such a post and i've read many things but most of it is like a foreign language to me because i have no background other than tweaking with things and hoping for lucky results. Yes masking instead of cropping i grasp thankfully. Again thank you for taking time to respond.
Those options capture directly to a compressed format i believe,(not sure about that) and you should look into that if you really want that, any "work" after that will downgrade the quality, when buying any capture device, you should research if you can use it also with other capture software, like you said, you're on the right track..
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02-04-2021, 05:57 PM
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Thanks for your advice and i hadn't thought about using the vcr to connect the camcorders into. I'll take your advice with the easycap etc. I tried one many years ago and it dropped a lot of frames. appreciate your time!!!
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  #17  
02-04-2021, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royallen View Post
I'll take your advice with the easycap
.. as in, DON'T USE IT ... right? I hope...

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02-05-2021, 05:19 AM
Eric-Jan Eric-Jan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royallen View Post
Thanks for your advice and i hadn't thought about using the vcr to connect the camcorders into. I'll take your advice with the easycap etc. I tried one many years ago and it dropped a lot of frames. appreciate your time!!!
Post your experiences also in this post !
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  #19  
02-07-2021, 08:26 AM
Eric-Jan Eric-Jan is offline
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About definitions...... SD = Standard Definition even then.... analog VHS consumer devices could/can not reach 50% of that, so guess what is left of NTSC 525 or PAL 625 lines, where from even not all lines contain image information, and yes, a realistic budget you need.... for capturing, very cheap new stuff won't cut it, VHS DVD , (and HDMI) are all made for consumer grade devices, even devices made for pro's will not deliver that much better quality, even the Hi8 tape format was better than U-Matic or SuperVHS, most of the Hi8 tapes where transfered to VHS for easy watching on CRT's you allmost couldn't tell the difference at that time.
Over the years there were made a lot of different VHS machines with different features, (US and EU models differ also, SCART etc...)combo recorders are my favourite, but some have also playback only DVD decks in them, so you have to watch out for that is my experience.
you are in a lucky spot if there's a thriftshop in the neighborhood, but with your SR-MV40US you don't have to look any further, great one ! focus on a good capture device, and you're ready to do some serious transfering.
(I'm using the BlackMagic Design Intensity Shuttle thunderbold 2 with my "old" MacBookPro)

Last edited by Eric-Jan; 02-07-2021 at 08:37 AM.
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