Quantcast Color banding on non-comercial VHS capture? - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
05-07-2021, 01:45 PM
JohnSmith1321 JohnSmith1321 is offline
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Hi, below I have a clip with a side by side of a DVD and a non commercial VHS capture using an Easycap. The DVD is fine (though low res), but the VHS instead of having a color picture just has these colored bands. Both were captured from the same VCR/DVD player unit. When trying to describe this effect in google I kept getting sent to forum pages about macrovision, but this is a non commercial VHS I recorded from a television broadcast and this does not occur on my crt TV. Any information on what this might be and how to get a cleaner capture would be nice.


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File Type: mp4 WeirdVHSArtifacting.mp4 (37.05 MB, 27 downloads)
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  #2  
05-07-2021, 01:59 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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That looks like using the wrong color standard for the tape being captured, more info needed on the tape and software used to capture and its settings.
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  #3  
05-07-2021, 05:41 PM
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Stop trying to use an Easycap, it will never give you quality results (sometimes even zero results).

The fix here is to acquire a better card. What OS are you using?

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  #4  
05-07-2021, 08:53 PM
JohnSmith1321 JohnSmith1321 is offline
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I dual boot both Windows 10 and Linux, so a capture card that works with either is fine. I was only able to get a capture through obs, there wasn't much I could change in the settings as it thought my easycap was a web cam for some reason. I tried virtualdub because I read I believe on this forms people recommending it so you can access your capture cards proc amp settings among other (I never got that far), but it would inconsistently pick up a video feed on my desktop and when I was trying it on my laptop (also running windows 10) to have my VCR back near the TV to switch back and forth because I thought the tape might have been an issue virtualdub wouldn't work at all. The software that came on the included mini DVD picked up my DVD player screen once, but couldn't record it. As far as color standards my easycap came with software called "change video standard.exe" that gave the option of ntsc-m, ntsc-m j, and various pal formats, my VCR is north American and the tapes I want to rip contain United States broadcasts, so I tried both ntsc options as I'm familiar with the difference between pal vs ntsc from some "region free" DVDs I tried buying before though I'm not familiar with the sub standards, there was no difference in the video between the two ntsc chooses. On both ntsc DVD capture was fine and VHS had that garbled image.

-- merged --

I bit the bullet and went up to a hauppauge usb-live2 first few tapes seemed to go fine (just a little more noise then on my crt I didn't think too much of it) then I had other issues with other tapes. I was reading on other threads it sounds like maybe "false macro-vision" and that a TBC might fix it, but that they were expensive items (even the built in dvd recorder ones) to order on a whim. Attached is the current state of my capturing there is some static noise on the bottom of this tape even on my crt however in the capture I have a flashing faded white bars on the lower half of the video and the picture drop out randomly (it doesn't happen in the same place each time the tape is played). 3 tapes from 2005/2006 don't seem to have this issue for me, but this tape from 2000 and another from 2001 had this issue.


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File Type: mp4 MoreWeirdArtifacting.mp4 (5.43 MB, 14 downloads)
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  #5  
05-14-2021, 01:11 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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You have two problems there, A VCR problem not tracking the tape right or the tape was recorded that way before, The second problem is the capture card not locking on the vertical sync (VBI). You should fix the first problem first.
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The following users thank latreche34 for this useful post: lollo2 (05-14-2021)
  #6  
05-14-2021, 05:55 PM
JohnSmith1321 JohnSmith1321 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
You have two problems there, A VCR problem not tracking the tape right or the tape was recorded that way before, The second problem is the capture card not locking on the vertical sync (VBI). You should fix the first problem first.
Thank you for explaining that to me, it gives me something to go off of. I was messing around with my two "working" VCRs on my flat screen last night and got a message out of the blue about the heads needing cleaning refusing to play any tapes (my dad use to do all the limited maintenance on these units). So this morning I looked up a video and carefully followed along (maybe too carefully) no more message, but a noisy picture often static on my CRT while flat screen cuts out. So given what you said about tracking I'll pop it back open and be more diligent with cleaning and leave it open for the tracking adjustment. Then worst case since this is an old heavily used VCR if the heads are completely shot. I'll try adjusting the tracking on the other "working" one.

I don't remember which VCR originally recorded this tape as this was when I was growing up and we had a VCR in both the family room, living room and each bedroom (7 total) at any given time. I remember when I was a kid we replaced two from the family room last one we bought for the family room was in 2004 (that VCR is one that still "works"). I just hope it isn't a bad tracking track from a VCR we replaced.

As for the second issue other signals don't have a vertical sync issue, such as the DVD output from my combo unit (a cleaner signal from what I understand). On the bright side at least I have a nosier less convent way to rip my DVDs then just making an iso on my desktop . So maybe if I successfully fix the tracking it will capture good enough? I guess I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

Sorry if I seem noobish, my background is computers and digital electronics. So outside of just playing back these old tapes everything else is a brand new deep rabbit hole. While I used VHS and VCRs growing up we were already buying movies on DVD so all I ever used it for was a "DVR" like device on my old CRT in my bedroom, since we thought you needed a cable subscription at the time for a DVR (as a result I have have 5 moving boxes full of VHS tape recordings of live broadcast). In hind sight I wish we had gotten a DVR I imagine that would of have been easier to archive.

-- merged --

I cleaned my heads more on my first VCR with great success, then when I was adjusting the timing as per this video I found https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpPUkckZinY my screw drive slipped and bumped something my eyes where on the screen at the time I was drawing in close, so I'm not sure what I bumped. It now says clean head again , so I hesitantly popped open my other VCR and proceeded even more carefully. This has made a significant difference no white flickering bars, I think there might be a slight audio sync issue, but that is relatively easy to fix in post. Recording in OBS with de-interlacing Yadif at 29.97fps is exactly how it looks on my flat screen, on my CRT it's the same mins some black streakes. I can live with these results as with previous tapes running it through handbrake's tape de-nosier removed enough of the black streaks. I will now also clean the head of this VCR and use this one for capture. Though separately I'd like to fix my other one if I can for a back up, but I'll start another thread somewhere else for that at a later date.


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File Type: mkv 2021-05-14 18-35-57.mkv (31.64 MB, 7 downloads)
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  #7  
05-14-2021, 10:06 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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You most likely chipped the video heads, Just cross your fingers.
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  #8  
05-14-2021, 10:15 PM
timtape timtape is offline
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Right principle but poor application taught on that YT video. Without the proper adjuster, very dangerous to adjust the entry and exit guides. We're already on just one edge of the screw slot. That's bad enough but then looking at the monitor we cant see the driver slipping off the screw head. If the hard screwdriver tip is hit by the fast rotating drum it's likely to do permanent damage, and I dont mean to the screwdriver. Just not worth it.

If the proper adjuster cant be obtained make a simple modification to a suitable standard flat blade by cutting a small slot in the centre so that the blade is centred in position on the screw slot by the protruding centre shaft. Even then be careful.

Last edited by timtape; 05-14-2021 at 10:29 PM.
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  #9  
05-14-2021, 10:24 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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That Youtube guide is really NOT good to mimic, as plain screwdrivers will never work well. Indeed, you'll slip. If you're not able to get the proper tools, sometimes you can take a Dremel to a flathead, and make your own head-adjustment screwdriver. That doesn't work for all VCR brands and makes, but it does for many JVCs especially.

Tip: Take photos of the head positions BEFORE you start to screw around with them. To a novice, making the VCR worse is easy, making it better is not, simply putting it back is not!

What VCR are you using? It may be junk anyway, not worth messing with. A better deck is likely needed. Add it to an ES10/15 if you're trying to go it cheap (noting that "cheap" still yields issues, just less so with ES10/15 added to a somewhat decent VCR like many JVC S-VHS non-TBC models).

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  #10  
05-15-2021, 02:58 AM
hodgey hodgey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timtape View Post
If the proper adjuster cant be obtained make a simple modification to a suitable standard flat blade by cutting a small slot in the centre so that the blade is centred in position on the screw slot by the protruding centre shaft. Even then be careful.
Alternatively you can often find screwdriver bits that have a slot in these "special" screwdriver bit sets that contain driver bits for various security screws. They're reasonably commonly available in hardware stores.
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  #11  
05-15-2021, 05:29 AM
timtape timtape is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hodgey View Post
Alternatively you can often find screwdriver bits that have a slot in these "special" screwdriver bit sets that contain driver bits for various security screws. They're reasonably commonly available in hardware stores.
Good point. These bits can be made of quite hard steel so a lot easier to just buy one with the slot rather than try and cut or grind a slot.
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  #12  
05-15-2021, 05:56 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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Here are some of the basic tools for VCR repair:
http://russellind.com/client/download/tools.pdf
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