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  #1  
06-28-2021, 01:46 PM
Delta Delta is offline
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I've now got a 710-USB from LS; installed the suggested drivers and also ran the CrossBar Thing to verify. My PC is Windows 10 (1052) on M597A-EVO-R2.0 with AMD FX-6300, Corsair Vengeance 8GB, GTX 1060 3GB.

I see in several threads how Windows 10 is unfriendly for this requirement and the challenges in getting VirtualDub capture working with Windows 10, and so wasn't expecting a smooth ride. As reported by other users on Win10, I am able get the capture going without a preview. Only once, did I manage to have the display work in preview mode & was able to capture - but has never been able to repeat it . Most times the preview is scrambled, sometimes blank. When the audio levels are active, I can tell it will capture; otherwise the bars stay stuck mid-way.

Switching overlay-preview, enabling histogram, switching off DirectX for display didn't help. Nvidia graphics card has also been talked about as an issue - unfortunately my board does not have an integrated graphics driver. I have tried 32 and 64 bit versions of VDub 1.9.11, 1.10.4, FM_40121 and Vdub2_44282. On most occasions, switching preview causes VDub to stop responding and mostly results in Win10 freezing up as well. No error messages; simply stops working. A few users have reported success with earlier versions of Win10; but as the experts have pointed out, Win 10 is becoming evil for video capturing with every update.

Are there steps, options that I could try before I abandon capture attempts with Win 10 and try to setup a Win 7 PC. . Many thanks.


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File Type: jpg 710-USB_Crossbar-01.jpg (24.9 KB, 7 downloads)
File Type: jpg 710-USB_Crossbar-02.jpg (36.6 KB, 5 downloads)
File Type: jpg scrambled_preview.jpg (81.6 KB, 6 downloads)
File Type: jpg Audio_levels_freeze.jpg (26.0 KB, 4 downloads)
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  #2  
06-28-2021, 08:38 PM
Hushpower Hushpower is online now
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Welcome to the club. I too got a 710-USB from LS and had all sorts of issues trying to get it to work. Not his fault, I suppose, the drivers haven't kept up to date with Windows (I'm on Win 10 20H2). Eventually though I got it working OK.

I haven't been using mine recently, so I pulled it out when I read your post. Sure enough, VDub 1.9.11 eventually froze and I had to restart my machine. After a restart though (with the 710 already plugged in), it's now running well. The histogram works, the audio levels indicate correctly, and it captures OK, with a preview during capture. When in Video>Preview mode, I initially get a jerky video picture but it smooths out to normal when I choose Preview Acceleration>Progressive both fields.

I have attached my Video>Capture Filter screen showing the driver number.

A Win 7 computer? Depends on how invested you are in this stuff. But if you can spare the cash, I suggest you try one of these on your Win 10 machine first:

https://www.amazon.com.au/DATA-conne.../dp/B00428BF1Y

It is bulletproof on Win 10 and I can't tell the difference between it and the 710. Maybe just a few tiny differences in image here and there but for "most" intents and purposes, they're the same, and equal to my Startech USB3 HDCAP.

English installation instructions here. (the box and software is totally in Japanese!).


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  #3  
06-30-2021, 04:04 AM
Delta Delta is offline
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Thanks Hushpower. I am on 20H2 as well; the Pinnacle driver versions are the same. I guess the health of Win10 updates, versions of VC++ packages, etc. along with NVidia drivers could be some of the variances.

Quote:
I have attached my Video>Capture Filter screen showing the driver number.
Is that the screen shot of Crossbar overlaid on VDub panel to show both versions in a single image? I could verify my version from the Crossbar Thing.

I tried restarting Win10 with the card connected and/or running in Win7 compatibility mode - still no luck. The best I could achieve was with VirtualDub2_44282 64bit - I get a scrambled preview (a good preview sometimes) and could capture. But that was limited only once per restart on most occasions. On most occasions, Win 10 is not able to completely kill the non responding VirtualDub process. PC restart is the only way to get another capture going.

I tried capturing with STOIK; works very stably, was able to set formats, driver settings and compression - however the audio is missing . Fixing audio missing issue with is an option if I wish to stick with Win10. I would also miss the histogram and audio level.

With regards to Win7, I have a license and could install as dual boot on the same PC to be used solely for capturing.

I did consider the currently available set of cards that work with Win10 including this one; there was an earlier thread in which I sought suggestions and decided to go with one of the cards LS suggested. I am happy with the card .

I now need to:
1. Figure out STOIK audio issues; I can use the occasional success with VDub2 with histogram and audio-meter to tune the card proc-amp settings
2. Set up a Win7 m/c exclusively for capturing.
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  #4  
06-30-2021, 04:41 AM
Hushpower Hushpower is online now
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Quote:
Is that the screen shot of Crossbar overlaid on VDub panel to show both versions in a single image?
Yes, I put it on top of the VDub screen to show the version of VDub.

These dramas are the reason I split to the IOData and the Startech; the very slight increase (if at all) in quality using the old stuff was just not worth the hassle.

Good luck!
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  #5  
06-30-2021, 05:05 AM
Hushpower Hushpower is online now
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No joy with audio on Stoik here either. I tried through the 710 and via my audio input on my motherboard.
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  #6  
06-30-2021, 10:55 AM
Delta Delta is offline
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Thanks for confirming on Stoik. Will now focus on getting Win7 up and running.

I was capturing with Canopus ADVC-110 in DV format, which for PAL is not too bad. I started to look for raw capture cards to get uncompressed 4:2:2. From the inputs and threads pointed to, I was looking at Hauppauge (610) USB-Live2, Dazzle DVD Recorder HD, Diamond VC500, IO Data GV USB2 and Vidbox. And then settled for 710-USB fully aware that I may have to fall back to Win 7.
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  #7  
06-30-2021, 12:26 PM
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You can use a hardware switch to dual-boot into Win7.

I'm currently making all of my WinXP AIW capture systems dual boot from an SSD to Win7 or Win10. XP never sees the SSD, Win7/10 never see the XP boot drive, because it's physical switch to select the boot drive. The reason I'm doing this is so I can quickly copy capture files to an external USB3 2tb+ (4/5/8) drive. But obviously your use works, too. Dedicated offline Win7 to capture, then swap back same hardware for Win10.

Problem (most likely) solved.

Win10 will only get worse in time. Anybody that thinks their "new" (2010s) hardware is safe from this same fate is fooling themselves. Microsoft doesn't care about video capture in the 2020s (or even the late 2010s). It's quite obvious.

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  #8  
07-01-2021, 01:23 PM
Delta Delta is offline
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Thanks for this tip LS . Could you please post a link to this from Amazon/Newegg? - I'll check if that is available locally here.

[EDIT] Will any 4-pole 2-way switch work - If i just plan to flip the power? [EDIT]

In my current set up, I have SSD1 for Win10, SSD2 for capture and a HDD for Win7 - Win10 and 7 could see each other and the capture SSD; this creates occasional issues for Win10. Win10 isn't allowing me to create dual-boot menu , so I am using boot drive selection at startup. This switch would be very handy.

I have got the Win7 almost ready - loads and loads of update running for hours. I am hoping to get some test captures run on Win7 tomorrow or during the weekend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta View Post
Thanks for this tip LS . Could you please post a link to this from Amazon/Newegg?
Located a few models in Amazon.

-- merged --

I could get the preview, histogram and capture going successfully with Win 7. I had to uninstall Nvidia drivers that Win7 automatically installed and disabled further updates to get VirtualDub working without crashes - it appears that VirtualDub does not go well with Nvidia drivers even on Win 7.

With VirtualDub 1.9.11 both 32 & 64-bit, I could get preview and histogram working for short test captures; I had to keep the DirectX enabled in display preferences; at times it takes a couple of toggling histogram & preview to get them both working together; otherwise, preview goes blank when histogram is switched on.

With VirtualDub-1.10.4 both 32 & 64-bit, I had to disable DirectX to get preview and histogram together - but with much lower degree of success; sometimes preview shows some sort of picture-in-picture .

No success with VirtualDub_FilterMod_40121 and VirtualDub2_44282; these versions of VirtualDub stops responding often.

I am happy that I could finally get VirtualDub (1.9.11) working with 710-USB; however, even with cropping offsets specified, I see that preview does not reflect the cropping on most attempts; also there is no tick against "cropping" under the video menu . As suggested, I would be using cropping only for histogram checks and proc-amp tuning; but still wondering why cropping is not effected. Any clues? Thanks

-- merged --

There are some posts that talk about ffvdub.vdf. Is this required to perhaps stabilize VDub or resolve the cropping issue I have?
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  #9  
07-06-2021, 01:31 PM
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ffvdub is ffdshow, nothing to do with VirtualDub capturing.

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  #10  
08-29-2021, 08:42 AM
Delta Delta is offline
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After a hectic couple months, I gathered some time to begin capturing with the new Win7 partition I had set up for capturing only to find that VirtualDub keeps crashing . There were a couple of windows updates that have gone through, which are the likely culprits. A system restore did not help. I will probably have to re-install Win7 from scratch and be careful to not let it automatically install updates.

Could you please advice if (i) I should just stop after Win7 installation (from disc that was from about 2010) and prevent further updates, (ii) if there are certain essential updates that are required, beyond which Win7 becomes VirtualDub unfriendly?

Thanks
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  #11  
08-29-2021, 09:45 AM
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I keep my W7 laptop offline. After some research I used a thumb drive to copy needed files to update it. I keep that thumb drive at the ready just in case.
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  #12  
08-29-2021, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta
There are some posts that talk about ffvdub.vdf. Is this required to perhaps stabilize VDub or resolve the cropping issue I have?
Not that I'm aware.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta View Post
There were a couple of windows updates
There is zero reason to update Windows 7 on a capture box. Leave it offline.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryTheCrab View Post
I keep my W7 laptop offline. After some research I used a thumb drive to copy needed files to update it. I keep that thumb drive at the ready just in case.
Same here, thumb drive if needed.

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  #13  
08-29-2021, 01:36 PM
RobustReviews RobustReviews is offline
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We have 5 Windows 7 machines for capture and they're online (we capture to NAS -> AWS S3) as keeping vast data stores locally doesn't work for us anymore, running captures 24/7 and usually five at a time.

We've so-far not had a breaking update with Windows 7, and they do update every few days or so, something I think is quite remarkable for a legacy system. That's not to say it won't happen, or that it will not cause issues for anybody else but our experience is that, until this evening at least, no updates have broken capture by FW.

Obviously with specific hardware etc things will be different, I can only speak of my experience.

There's a surprising number of updates being rolled out for Windows7.

If you do online though, be prepared for constant irritating nag-screens about "Out of support" issues etc, not harmful but just irritating, I'm sure they can be switched off somewhere but I've never looked in to it.
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  #14  
08-30-2021, 01:11 PM
tbgconnor tbgconnor is offline
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Just chiming in with my 2 cents as I had similar issues:

Lag and no audio with my Dazzle (pinnacle) capture card and Windows 10.

I found this thread: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...-on-Windows-10 where people seemed to have the same issue I was experiencing. Microsoft seems to have broken a lot of stuff in W10 that affects capture workflows. The newer driver version on that thread was 1.09, which is a bit newer than the version I got off Archive.org -> Dazzle Video Capture DVC100 X64 Driver 1.07.

Even with newer driver, still had problems.

So, I gave up and installed Windows 7 on a box specifically for my capture workflow. I updated it to SP1 (as some software I needed to install required that) but then turned off updates, and I'm leaving the machine offline anyways so not worried about security. Got graphics card, capture card, etc drivers, installed Virtualdub pack, Avisynth, Lagarith codec... all good to go.

I recommend going the Windows 7 route and turning off further updates as soon as the system is up and running. And don't forget to take a backup (Macrium reflect, or Veeam free edition?) if you plan on using the system continually

Last edited by tbgconnor; 08-30-2021 at 01:13 PM. Reason: added note explaining I had issues even with the newer driver on windows 10
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  #15  
08-30-2021, 01:54 PM
Delta Delta is offline
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Thank you all for the inputs. I will re-install from the Win7 SP1 disc; and keep it offline.

Which is better for capture stability? should i go for 32 or 64-bit?
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  #16  
08-30-2021, 02:04 PM
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They're both very stable - 64 bit if you've got the hardware to take advantage of it.

Remember if you're running big hard drives you'll top out at 2TB on a 32bit system.
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  #17  
08-30-2021, 07:05 PM
jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
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A comment about 32 bit versus 64 bit, applications and device drivers.

Not a lot of people will install Win 10 the 32 bit edition.. but its the one Microsoft developers themselves have said they don't try to break. They assume no one will be interested in running it.

The Pinnacle device drivers were written for 32 bit windows "first".. the 64 bit versions were recompiled and then "bug fixed" if they had time.. mostly they didn't.

The VirtualDub 1.9.11 reference edition was 32 bit only and used DirectShow invented for 32 bit windows.

All synergies exist for 32 bit windows, not 64 bit windows.

You cannot run a 32 bit device driver on 64 bit windows, but you start with a handicap because the device drivers for 64 bit windows were never written for 64 bit windows, and only debugged to run on 64 bit windows.. mostly not.. mostly they retain many performance and bug problems.

Any 32 bit application on 64 bit windows will run "slower" and have all of its progamming calls "translated" and only get a tiny slice of the operating system resources.. you should "expect" VirtualDub 32 bit to run slower and have problems on Win 10 the 64 bit edition.

And then.. then.. you have the constant Win 10 architecture updates, malware updates and bug fixes.. when you think about it.. its really insane to even "try" video capture on Win 10 the default 64 bit edition.

.. at least "try" Win 10 the 32 bit edition.. if you have to have Win 10 or don't know how to use Win 7 or Win XP

Its becoming a very real risk that 20 or 30 year old people today are totally "lost" figuring out how to install, let alone use Win 7 or Win XP. Other than YouTube.. they may have never seen a computer running it.

Regarding 2 TB partitions.

Win 7 had support for older MBR or GPT partitions. MBR were limited to 2 TB for boot partitions. But Win 7 also supported booting from GPT partitions if the BIOS supported UEFI. TL;DR but basically Windows 7 supports GPT partitions and you don't have a limit to 2 TB drives or 2 TB partitions.. it only matters when you have a really old motherboard without UEFI and don't have a 2 TB boot drive. A second or third drive can support much larger hard drives beyond 2 TB.

This is mostly information for grandparents these days.. modern desktops or laptops running Win 7 or Win 10 the 32 bit editions won't have disk size limits.

Last edited by jwillis84; 08-30-2021 at 07:16 PM.
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  #18  
08-31-2021, 03:42 AM
Hushpower Hushpower is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jwillis84
when you think about it.. its really insane to even "try" video capture on Win 10 the default 64 bit edition.
I do not agree. I have had no problems at all with my GV-USB2 and Startech USB3HDCAP and Win10 20H2 64bit. I have had issues with my Pinnacle 710-USB and VGB-100. The Pinnacle was made many many years ago. There is capture hardware that works quite happily with Win 10.

I do wonder about the advice that the only reliable way to capture VHS is to use a Win XP or Win 7 (32 bit) machine.

Quote:
Its becoming a very real risk that 20 or 30 year old people today are totally "lost" figuring out how to install, let alone use Win 7 or Win XP. Other than YouTube.. they may have never seen a computer running it.
Quite right. And there is no need for it, from where I am sitting.
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08-31-2021, 04:44 AM
RobustReviews RobustReviews is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwillis84 View Post
Regarding 2 TB partitions.

Win 7 had support for older MBR or GPT partitions. MBR were limited to 2 TB for boot partitions. But Win 7 also supported booting from GPT partitions if the BIOS supported UEFI. TL;DR but basically Windows 7 supports GPT partitions and you don't have a limit to 2 TB drives or 2 TB partitions.. it only matters when you have a really old motherboard without UEFI and don't have a 2 TB boot drive. A second or third drive can support much larger hard drives beyond 2 TB.

This is mostly information for grandparents these days.. modern desktops or laptops running Win 7 or Win 10 the 32 bit editions won't have disk size limits.
You are of course correct, I was painting in very broad brush-strokes to prevent heartache, but yes, this is entirely correct. Thank you for elaborating on this, as my reply was only partially formed.

We run Windows7 64-bit (I think!) on our capture machines without issues, but we're doing DV captures so to paraphrase Gertrude Stein "A Firewire port, is a Firewire Port, is a Firewire Port..."

Running "actual" metal capture hardware I can imagine is a complete crapshoot though.

With Windows 10, I could never dedicate enough time to it for it to play nicely with Firewire let alone anything more complicated - Premiere oddly will capture okay but I can't tie up Premiere licences all day for capture 'donkey work' so it was easier to just put the machines on Windows 7 and shrug-shoulders, plus Windows 7 licences are only a few currency-units now.

I'm sure there are systems it will play absolutely fine with though, and there is definitely a tendency on here toward the pre-historic hardware/software which I think sometimes is a little over-exaggerated, but then is it easier to stick with what is known to work?
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  #20  
08-31-2021, 06:11 AM
lollo2 lollo2 is offline
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Quote:
I do not agree. I have had no problems at all with my GV-USB2 and Startech USB3HDCAP and Win10 20H2 64bit.
The same here: I had no problem at all with my Hauppauge USB-Live 2 and Windows 10 Pro 21H1 64bit.
Some sample here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMs...7I8nu4g/videos
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