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  #1  
09-13-2021, 06:21 PM
bideobeard bideobeard is offline
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I have made several videos using Pinnacle 510, Virtualdub, on a windows 10 box.

After about halfway through the video, the audio will start to desync (maybe it is doing it earlier and it is so minuscule I don't notice)

by the end, the audio will last nearly 5 seconds after the video itself has ended. Manually adjusting it to offset the audio by that much, messes up the audio in earlier parts of the video.

Any tips on how to fix this?
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  #2  
09-14-2021, 12:44 AM
lollo lollo is offline
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With Windows 10, try AmarecTV
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  #3  
09-14-2021, 01:15 AM
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This is almost never software related. Swapping from VirtualDub to Amarec won't do anything.

The root cause is almost always dropped frames, where the video frame drops but audio does not (hence loss of sync). Lack of TBC is the reason. Not just any random TBC, but frame TBC for cleaning the signal.

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  #4  
09-14-2021, 01:54 AM
lollo lollo is offline
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Just wait until the OP tries…
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  #5  
09-17-2021, 10:36 AM
bideobeard bideobeard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
This is almost never software related. Swapping from VirtualDub to Amarec won't do anything.

The root cause is almost always dropped frames, where the video frame drops but audio does not (hence loss of sync). Lack of TBC is the reason. Not just any random TBC, but frame TBC for cleaning the signal.
What exactly is a TBC or frame TBC (what's the acronym stand for as well).

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Originally Posted by lollo View Post
Just wait until the OP tries…
Hey, it's worth a shot. I'll give it a try this weekend hopefully.

I also probably have the means of getting a windows 7 dual boot/ standalone machine up and running if that would make a difference.
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  #6  
09-17-2021, 11:11 AM
lollo2 lollo2 is offline
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Quote:
What exactly is a TBC or frame TBC (what's the acronym stand for as well).
What is a TBC? Time Base Correction for Videotapes

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I also probably have the means of getting a windows 7 dual boot/ standalone machine up and running if that would make a difference.
Stay in Windows 10 so we can compare under same conditions
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  #7  
09-18-2021, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lollo2 View Post
Stay in Windows 10 so we can compare under same conditions
The question is this: What matters more? Getting results? Or testing for the sake of testing?
I'd opt to use known-good configs: Win7, TBC.

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  #8  
09-18-2021, 04:22 AM
lollo2 lollo2 is offline
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Quote:
I'd opt to use known-good configs: Win7, TBC
I agree.

Quote:
Or testing for the sake of testing?
For other people working only with Windows 10 it is important to see if AmarecTV solve the issue of the OP, this question was asked several times
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  #9  
09-18-2021, 04:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lollo2 View Post
For other people working only with Windows 10 it is important to see if AmarecTV solve the issue of the OP, this question was asked several times
This is partially why I got a Win10 system this summer. Video capture card testing, in addition to audio recording with my Wave3 (Win10 required).

So 510, Win10, I can test that.

In fact, I have tested that. What I had to do was use VirtualDub2, and certain other settings. The best VirtualDub just doesn't work in post-7 with some cards. For now, it works. But with Win10 being Win10, who knows how long that will last, it may change again with the next major update. That is the main reason Win10 sucks, too many variable every 6 months. PITA.

I plan to make a guide here shortly, but health just keeps weighing me down.

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  #10  
09-18-2021, 05:07 AM
lollo2 lollo2 is offline
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Quote:
The best VirtualDub just doesn't work in post-7 with some cards.
I am saying that since years!

Quote:
That is the main reason Win10 sucks, too many variable every 6 months. PITA.
I agree. And updates every day . But is not alway possible to maintain older OSs.

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I plan to make a guide here shortly, but health just keeps weighing me down.
All the best for your health, dear LS.
If you need anything to be relieved for your guides, just let me know.
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  #11  
09-18-2021, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lollo2 View Post
But is not alway possible to maintain older OSs.
Why?

I have capture systems that have never been online. The only usage, the reason it was built, was only video. I never use my daily computers for video -- especially since most of those don't even run Windows. In fact, "daily computers" is becoming a dated term. More and more, I'm relying on my Samsung Android tablet these days. I can do much of what's needed without even leaving my recliner.

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  #12  
09-18-2021, 10:44 AM
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Because hardware breaks.

In the last years I had to change 3 XP machines for one of my legacy DVB-S capture card, having no modern OS driver/support and for a Firewire pci card.

When this last machine/critical parts will fail I have no more replacement, and it is not easy to find working pieces as time goes by. And my story with XP will be over.
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  #13  
09-18-2021, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lollo2 View Post
Because hardware breaks.

In the last years I had to change 3 XP machines for one of my legacy DVB-S capture card, having no modern OS driver/support and for a Firewire pci card.

When this last machine/critical parts will fail I have no more replacement, and it is not easy to find working pieces as time goes by. And my story with XP will be over.
I'm inclined to agree.

I'm not sure what will happen over the next few years but hardware that won't play with Windows 10 and onwards is going to look supremely unattractive for people coming into this. What the future for this holds I can't even speculate but I can't see many people wanting to maintain a (what will be by then) prehistoric Windows 7 machines for hobbyist use.

We use PCI-X cards for a lot of our capture duty, and they're enough of a pest to find compatible hardware for.

When time allows after I've finished the VHS Decode guide I might start playing with some Windows 10 hardware combinations to see what's doable as it stands. For almost certain, something will have to be made to work with it - I can't see anybody wanting to maintain Windows 7 (or older) in a few years.
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  #14  
09-18-2021, 03:05 PM
bideobeard bideobeard is offline
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So I tried using AmarecTV but run into an issue where it does not recognize the audio for my pinnalce 510

See pic 1

Then it will pop up an error message if I have it selected.

See pic 2

If i unselect it the video will run fine but will get no audio. I can't tell if I am maybe missing drivers or it just does not like that the pinnacle for some reason.


Attached Images
File Type: png snip1.PNG (31.0 KB, 6 downloads)
File Type: png snip2.PNG (5.5 KB, 5 downloads)
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  #15  
09-18-2021, 04:51 PM
lollo2 lollo2 is offline
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Strange. It could be a driver issue, try to re-install.

You can also try to build the graph for the Pinnacle with GraphStudioNext and check if everything is ok.

Here an example of mine (a graph I use to capture video in some experiment), you can just place the Pinnacle main module and "render" its outputs to see if all filters are properly recognized.

cattura.jpg


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  #16  
09-18-2021, 05:50 PM
bideobeard bideobeard is offline
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So the attached drivers are the ones i am using, are those the correct ones for my pinnacle 510?

Also I downloaded the program but I'm not particularly sure what the 'Pinnacle main module' is.


Attached Files
File Type: 7z Pinnacle_Video_Driver_64bit.7z (7.21 MB, 0 downloads)
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  #17  
09-19-2021, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bideobeard View Post
So the attached drivers are the ones i am using, are those the correct ones for my pinnacle 510?
Probably. The name is right.
See this: Pinnacle 710USB Windows 10 drivers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobustReviews View Post
hardware that won't play with Windows 10 and onwards is going to look supremely unattractive for people coming into this.
It's a 2000s task. That's the problem here. The $$$$$ isn't there to make current hardware, aside from poorly "working" (not working) cheapy-cheap Chinese Easycaps/Elgato/etc type of junk, or poorly done HDMI conversions.

Quote:
I can't see many people wanting to maintain a ... prehistoric Windows 7 machines for hobbyist use.
"Hobbyist" is the key here. They'll do whatever is needed. Casual home users will simply be tech'd out of this, and have to pay others for video services, or DIY the legacy build. There's not going to be any shortage of hardware (CPU, RAM, motherboards, etc). And we all know you can get a unofficial homebrew releases of old Windows versions, but backported and updated for far more modern hardware. You can still install Win7 natively on lots of current hardware. But the idea of Windows existing at all is somewhat laughable. We live in an Android/Linux world now, and both Windows and Mac will be further relegated to sandboxes. Yes, Windows still has mass market share, but the fundamentals of the OS are more and more Linux like. Give it time. That's part of the reason that each "Win10" update breaks stuff. And I write "Win10" because each OS update can be more like an upgrade, as XP>Vista>7 was. But it's all "Win10 Build#" now. The "Win10" doesn't means anything, the build does. The build is the true OS version.

Do you follow stocks? The semiconductor sector has way interesting reports, describing where chips are going. When you read some of that, you quickly realize how quaint the notion of Wintel/WinAMD boxes are. That stuff is not the future. Mac has already transitioned to ARM, and lots of hardware and software was retired because of it. That day is coming for Windows. All your "Win10" stuff will be just as antiquated as Win95. So you'll either build a legacy system for video needs or ... go away? That's the tech attitude now. Update/upgrade, or just bugger off. It's narrowminded, but it is what it is.

Quote:
I can't see anybody wanting to maintain Windows 7 (or older) in a few years.
What's to maintain? Install OS, use. It's not like it has a feeding schedule, needs to be walked once a day. It's a computer. It has no more maintenance needs than a Win10 box.

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  #18  
09-19-2021, 06:16 PM
bideobeard bideobeard is offline
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Unfortunately I might be tech'd out of this as you put it.
I don't think I can throw down another 800 or more for a TCM device.

Are there any services that you recommend for having these VHS digitized who will do it properly and not just run through basic elgato software or something?
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  #19  
09-19-2021, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bideobeard View Post
Are there any services that you recommend for having these VHS digitized who will do it properly and not just run through basic elgato software or something?
We have services.
Contact Us: http://www.digitalFAQ.com/forum/sendmessage.php

But again, the issue here is likely entirely lack of frame TBC. You can try to go cheap with a minimalist ES10/15 as TBC(ish), but it has side effects, and a fail rate. ES10/15 not a frame TBC, but a DVD recorder with a crippled+strong line TBC, and a non-TBC frame sync. Only if the tapes are of the utmost quality (signal-wise, not necessarily visually) will it work with any % of success.

How many tapes?
You can always buy the gear, use it, then resell it. It holds value. Many users of this forum have done it. In fact, a few lucky folks got gear, and were able to profit from the latter resell, as prices have gone up.

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  #20  
09-20-2021, 03:25 PM
RobustReviews RobustReviews is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Probably. The name is right.
See this: Pinnacle 710USB Windows 10 drivers?


It's a 2000s task. That's the problem here. The $$$$$ isn't there to make current hardware, aside from poorly "working" (not working) cheapy-cheap Chinese Easycaps/Elgato/etc type of junk, or poorly done HDMI conversions.

"Hobbyist" is the key here. They'll do whatever is needed. Casual home users will simply be tech'd out of this, and have to pay others for video services, or DIY the legacy build. There's not going to be any shortage of hardware (CPU, RAM, motherboards, etc). And we all know you can get a unofficial homebrew releases of old Windows versions, but backported and updated for far more modern hardware. You can still install Win7 natively on lots of current hardware. But the idea of Windows existing at all is somewhat laughable. We live in an Android/Linux world now, and both Windows and Mac will be further relegated to sandboxes. Yes, Windows still has mass market share, but the fundamentals of the OS are more and more Linux like. Give it time. That's part of the reason that each "Win10" update breaks stuff. And I write "Win10" because each OS update can be more like an upgrade, as XP>Vista>7 was. But it's all "Win10 Build#" now. The "Win10" doesn't means anything, the build does. The build is the true OS version.
Let's accept all of that.

Now what? It doesn't really change the immediate issue. I'm not convinced any but the most serious people in a few years are going to want to keep another PC simply for video conversion, it's just a suspicion but if we take that the model of the desktop computer is dying, in a few years time they might not be that much more alien in the home than the notion of a video machine. I've not had a PC (desktop or laptop) at home for a few years now (sample of 1, I admit) but for business and pleasure my mobile 'phone takes care of most daily tasks.

I don't want to get drawn in to a debate (it's simply an opinion) but I don't think the statement that Windows 7 systems are going seem incredibly unappealing in a few years is a controversial one.

But, much like the remark about vinyl records a few days ago - who knows what might happen.

Quote:
Do you follow stocks? The semiconductor sector has way interesting reports, describing where chips are going. When you read some of that, you quickly realize how quaint the notion of Wintel/WinAMD boxes are. That stuff is not the future. Mac has already transitioned to ARM, and lots of hardware and software was retired because of it. That day is coming for Windows. All your "Win10" stuff will be just as antiquated as Win95. So you'll either build a legacy system for video needs or ... go away? That's the tech attitude now. Update/upgrade, or just bugger off. It's narrowminded, but it is what it is.
I do a bit of ARM development, I have a development board sitting here for a side project I'm working on. We knew them as 'Acorn RISC Machines' before all the nastiness of the UK computer industry in the 80s. Before it was all neatly destroyed by the IBM/Windows systems. In a weird way I first used nascent ARM systems in the late 80s at school, Acorn RISC computers stuffed every school computer lab up-and-down the UK in the late 80s. Even then we used to have lessons covering the theory that these machines used a different architecture to the more common PC, and that it was 'the future' - although nobody seemed convinced then, not even Acorn seemingly.

I have a VERY barebones notion knocked-up of using an ARM board as a TBC/standards converter/digitiser but I've got nothing to show yet apart from a few 'scope traces etc.

Interestingly ARM doesn't roll any of their own silicone, they only sell intellectual property. As Acorn I believe they did do their own silicone though. I'm getting a touch sentimental thinking about those plucky Acorn Archemdies machines, Windows 3.1 felt a bit retrograde when I started using those - although 95 changed the game entirely.

Of course, the other hero of the British computer scene Sir Clive Sinclair passed away only a few days ago, I don't imagine he's a household name outside of the UK, but he was very well known here.

I digress.

I don't want to really get drawn into my financial position, but I don't manage my own shares... No... I've got absolutely no interest in that side of finances.

Quote:
What's to maintain?
In keeping with the above, I'll call that a 'syntax error', we do use (although it's not common) use the word 'maintain' to simply mean to own or operate. It's more of a legalistic term - it's more commonly understood in your context though I'll freely admit.

Last edited by RobustReviews; 09-20-2021 at 03:37 PM.
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