Frame inserts due to audio sync correction?
Moved from original thread, was OT there. -LS
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Of course a LOTC condition will send the capture potty anyway, so it's quite a flexible thing that needs to be taken in context. I had one this afternoon that dropped several hundred frames due to tape damage... |
Drops and inserts can have several causes, both source and capture side.
What remains true/constant is that it creates either (1) desync, or (2) choppy lost data. Those are the only choices. I don't know what "LOTC" means, but dropping frames in masse is either (a) lack of frame sync TBC, (b) I/O errors on the capture system. Again, there are only two reasons here. I know you operate with out any TBCs (which I find unacceptable for pro work, but we'll sideline that discussion here), and this is the consequence. Inserts can be an attempt to correct for sync, but only if set as such. Audio skew is generally maintained by altering the clock speed. But that can have unacceptable issues as well, be it "chipmunk" or "Barry White" audio. You can attempt to constrain the audio clock*, but the outcome may be more drops and inserts. It's a delicate balance, and the reason why quality VCRs, capture cards, and TBCs, are so important to a workflow. (It cannot be locked, only constrained. See also, a reason why "audio lock" is nonsense. Noting the main reason is because no such function exists, that Canopus-origin non-eixstant "feature" is the byproduct of marketing idiots not understanding specs, and munging the term. Those crappy Canopus DV boxes can, and do, drop frames and lose audio sync.) "Dropping the odd frame" is more often on the capture system side. You have an I/O lag due to not reformatting the capture drives enough, or at all. The time it takes to seek an open block results in drops. See also why capturing to SSD can be bad, as it's non-contiguous in nature. And yet, sometimes it is indeed the source, even with TBC. It doesn't even have to be "bad" (visually) source, merely bad (signal) source. I do agree, I don't sweat over 2-3 drops per hour, but assuming the capture is no more than an hour. If you cram a 6-hour tape in, and it drops "only" 3 per hour, you'll have audio skew that's noticeable off by the end of that 6 hours. Not so much with inserts, but you'll have duped frames. Rarely is it a single drop here, single drop there, but 2-3 at once, noticeable stutter in the video. In this thread: - VC500 not great - Hi8/Video is drop-happy, so this is expected behavior - good VCR for VHS (awful for DV) |
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I think you owe me an apology! I certainly do not, nor have ever operated any transfers without a TBC, evidence or apology please. For heavens sake man, I've even posted pictures on here of some of our capture racks and setups. I'll await an apology. |
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This is one of those threads: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/news...html#post79138 If you do use TBCs, great, <phew> :hot: ... I'm really glad to hear this! :congrats: But why argue needing TBCs? The goal here is helping others get quality conversions, not appeasing the low-knowledge or cheapskate users of society, reinforcing their wrong ideas on why TBCs matter and are required. They need to be educated, not coddled. You can get more nuances on what works, and what doesn't, and what sorta works+doesn't. Indeed, it is shades of gray. But most of those are money-driven debates, not quality-driven. I distinguish TBCs, I don't lump them all together in a single category. TBC is a wide term. So let's now return to your question... You're getting drops and inserts. It always comes back to the hardware: - Which TBCs? Type, brand, model. - Details on capture cards, and capture systems. I'm not necessarily asking you for this info, but rather giving you the questions you need to ask, in order to resolve dropped/inserted frames issues. For example, some items, like DVD recorders, are not TBCs, and are a likely source for the errors. It usually happens in-device (silent, not reported), but not always. Anyway, your understanding of drops/insert is correct thus far, it was just a bit incomplete. |
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You haven't. We've noticed you change the subject or accuse others of being 'off topic' as soon as some of your nonsense is pointed out. |
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"sleight against my professional character" --- shall we have 20 paces at dawn? :laugh: I'm trying to steer the conversation back to drops/insert, audios, TBCs. |
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I'm stunned, I've certainly never argued against using them, I'll await evidence. I've told people in the first instance not to get too hung up on explicit differences when they're asking broad questions, but I've never, ever advised against using them. Quote:
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It's very simple - "Sorry RR, yeah I misunderstood something - I'll edit" rather than doubling-down on something that's clearly not true. |
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But you still have to watch what's written. Again, the context of the thread turned anti-TBC, and you weren't helping to clarify the necessity of TBCs. This statement was made: "I don't use a TBC of any kind". And your response was "if it is visually pleasing to the person who's watching it, then it's on balance probably a good job." That's just ... no. Quote:
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I'm still waiting here, you've made the clear accusation that I do not use them for professional work, I have countered, and you're still trying to make out that you're correct. Seriously, you're wrong here china (as you seem so fond of our parlance) - maybe it's time to have a word and cut out the porkies? |
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Or let's just end it there. |
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"Sorry, that wasn't correct, I could not know that to be true" would have been a more than reasonable reply. A very simple apology and a retraction, that's all I ask. You can't just go around making unfounded accusations about my business, then try and 'white knight' for your own posts. It's quite transparent. Like I say, the smartest thing would be to just withdraw something that you now know not to be true. |
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