Quantcast VHS conversion sanity check: capture card, OS? - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
10-20-2021, 01:54 AM
unrealii unrealii is offline
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Much thanks for all the resources. Been doing a lot of reading and learning tons.

My Goal is to transfer ~20 vhs tapes (I also have handful of digital 8 and 8mm, but have a dv camcorder). End format is not known but want to capture at a reasonable high quality to rid the tapes then deal with cutting and finishing later.

I need some help on picking a capture card. Original plan was to use the macbook m1 air with a canopus ADVC 300. I recently sold the advc 300 after learning DV is bad for video capture. After reading about the nuances with modern operating systems, I am open to using the other comptuers I have.

Equipment:
VCR: JVC HR-S9911U w/TBC
Software: Have both Apple FCP or Adobe CS
Computers: Macbook M1 air or AMD/RTX 3080 gaming PC w/Windows 10
* also available is a file server running windows server 2012 r2 or a Dell D420 Laptop Core2Duo w/Win XP. The 2012 r2 server has a PCI and PCIe slot , no agp.
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  #2  
10-20-2021, 08:01 AM
lollo2 lollo2 is offline
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Quote:
VCR: JVC HR-S9911U w/TBC
Quote:
Computers: AMD/RTX 3080 gaming PC w/Windows 10
With a lineTBC S-VHS VCR and a Windows10 PC you may include Hauppauge USB Live-2 as capture card in your list.

Some example of captures here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMs...h1MmNAs7I8nu4g
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  #3  
10-21-2021, 10:22 AM
Hushpower Hushpower is offline
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Another for the list: the IO Data GV-USB2 runs like clockwork on Win 10 21H1 and Virtual Dub; Vub Histogram works a treat and full Proc Amp control is available via Graphstudio (simple guide available if needed).
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  #4  
10-21-2021, 10:43 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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VHS transfer is almost entirely about the hardware used for it.
- quality gear = quality conversions
- cheap/crappy gear = problems, up to inability to transfer at all

A basic conversion workflow is VCR > TBC > capture card.
Not just any VCR/TBC/card, but devices known to work, and work well.

The capture card further has the computer hardware, OS, and capture software. Plus capture formats. You can easily screw it all up, by trying to multitask, or use cheap (quality, not price) capture software. Or even the wrong software, be it Premiere, OBS, or others.

OS matters. Win10 is generally terrible, but Mac and Linux is often worse. This is a 2000s task, and 2020s OS/hardware isn't going to cooperate. Best is WinXP, Win7, older pre-10.14 Mac.

Hardware has costs, yes. Buy it, use it, resell it. Trying to go cheap often backfires. You'll spend more time screwing around with trying to make it work, rather than use it. How much is your time worth to you? Your sanity?

Right now, you have a good VCR, 9911, which has line TBC.

You lack frame TBC.

FCP and Premiere are great editors/NLEs, but horrible at trying to capture video. Don't do that. Wrong tool for the task.

That M1 will not work whatsoever, and the Win10 will fight you. You cannot capture in a VM. If you can install XP on hardware, that's ideal. Laptops, not so much, those were often very underpowered.

Certain Pinnacle cards are working best right now for Win10, quality captures. But setup is finicky, and actually uses VirtaulDub2 for capture -- at least, right now. Every 6 months will change things, due to Win10 updates always screwing something up video-wise.

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  #5  
10-22-2021, 01:13 AM
unrealii unrealii is offline
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Thanks for all the info. For some reason I thought windows server 2012 would be a good windows xp/7 computer, apparently not the case.

Decided to build an XP or 7 machine. I have an old machine at my parents house or can pick an old dell optiplex workstation from craigslist for $60.

I bought this ATI 2006 Edition AIW card Fingers crossed that soldering a resister will fix it. Worst case, I have the cables and can pick from the several cheap cards already available.

-- merged --

Found a large photo of the board:
https://vgamuseum.ru/gpu/atiamd/ati-...all-in-wonder/

Any idea what component this is?


Attached Images
File Type: jpg ati_radeon_9600_aiw_f.jpg (45.6 KB, 14 downloads)
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  #6  
10-24-2021, 10:58 AM
ffmpeguserss ffmpeguserss is offline
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Looks like a surface mount capacitor (the labels start with C, while resistors R); I'd look for a similarly labeled capacitor on the board and somehow measure its capacitance if you're looking for a replacement, or maybe someone can tell you. Hopefully just a resolder but good luck with the repair in any case.

Dell Dimension might be closer to what you need because you need an AGP slot, without the AGP slot you cannot install the AIW card. (Regarding Optiplex lordsmurf has a few choice words about those boxes ). Hopefully the old PC you mention has an AGP slot - if it's around 2004 or so it should.
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  #7  
10-26-2021, 01:02 AM
unrealii unrealii is offline
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Thanks! I'll keep an eye out for dell dimension and other older machines.
Turns out neither of my "old" machines have an AGP slot.
Pausing this project until I find an agp computer AND can fix the card I just bought or if I decide to buy an PCIe card.

Its funny, because I've donated a few old computers with AGP slots many many years ago, and now I seeking it.
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  #8  
10-28-2021, 11:04 AM
ElectricApple ElectricApple is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unrealii View Post
Found a large photo of the board:
https://vgamuseum.ru/gpu/atiamd/ati-...all-in-wonder/

Any idea what component this is?
FWIW
That's a Vishay 22uF 16v Tantalum capacitor.
Should be easy enough to resolder the existing one or source a replacement


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File Type: png Vishay Cap Codes.png (53.2 KB, 5 downloads)
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  #9  
11-01-2021, 12:19 AM
unrealii unrealii is offline
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Thank you!

Turns out the seller included the cap which had fallen off. Makes my life much easier. It looks similar to several other caps on the board, but different color from the photo I attached above. I'll cross check it versus a similar cap in that photo and check the board that it is similar.

Thanks again.

-- merged --

Does capturing in Win 7 lose quality to Windows XP?

I have everything I need for a windows 7 capture PC with an ATI AIW 800XL new in box.

I can try to source a windows XP pc with AGP to use the ATI AIW 2006 Value edition and hope that soldiering the card fixes it
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  #10  
11-19-2021, 11:44 AM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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It's not really about Win7 vs XP but rather PCIe vs AGP. Even though they use the same Theatre 200 chip, apparently the drivers for the PCIe cards cause some horizontal offset.

From a previous thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BW37 View Post
After reading a LOT of posts and threads on this site I'd summarize what I've learned by saying that the PCIe cards are often not the preferred AIW's for a number of reasons, especially among the "old hands" on the forum. The biggest complaint is probably that the MMC versions the PCIe cards all require (MMC 9.1 and later) are not considered as useful as the older MMC versions for direst to MPEG-2 capture. However, using the PCIe cards for compressed or uncompressed avi capture generally seems to work well. One other weakness is that all of the PCIe cards appear to offset the captured image to the left, creating a black border on the right that is more than 10 pixels wide. This is eliminated in post capture processing, but it is one more step in the process. In addition, at least the faster GPU versions (X800, X1800, X1900) are "power hungry heat monsters" in the experience of some. I'm not sure whether the 2006 PCIe version is similar since it uses a less powerful GPU. Disregard most of the 2006 PCIe reviews from the time. The reviewers were disappointed for reasons that are irrelevant, even wrong for VHS capture.

In their favor, The PCIe cards appear to capture the entire image within the 720 pixel width. Some of the other AIW's that don't have the offset problem actually crop off some of the image. The cropping problem is probably driver dependent on the older AGP cards and can be fixed. I have an AIW 9700 that provides very different capture widths depending on which WDM driver I use. However, all of the PCIe drivers I've tried with both my X800 and X1800 give me the entire source image but also include a wide black band on the right within the 720 pixels. I wish there was a registry hack or something that could change this.
(Note: I've never owned one of the PCIe cards myself so I'm basing this off posts.)

Last edited by msgohan; 11-19-2021 at 12:02 PM.
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  #11  
11-20-2021, 01:58 PM
BW37 BW37 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unrealii View Post
Does capturing in Win 7 lose quality to Windows XP?

I have everything I need for a windows 7 capture PC with an ATI AIW 800XL new in box.
Capture with any ATI AIW, whether AGP, PCI or PCIe requires WinXP. ATI never made the Win7 drivers needed for the capture functions of those cards.

A few have had a bit of success getting them to work (at least partially) with 32 bit Win7, but it takes a lot of playing around and is something left to those highly knowledgeable in the intricacies of Windows OS itself.

BW
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  #12  
11-21-2021, 07:42 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unrealii View Post
Does capturing in Win 7 lose quality to Windows XP?
Sort of. It's not the OS, but the menu of cards available for the OS, and those card's quality. A hallmark of quality was the famed ATI AIW Radeon cards. Not everything single AIW, but many of them, mostly from the AGP era.

Quote:
I have everything I need for a windows 7 capture PC with an ATI AIW 800XL new in box.
Won't work.

Quote:
I can try to source a windows XP pc with AGP to use the ATI AIW 2006 Value edition
But don't dumpster dive. You really need a quality motherboard with SATA and dual/quad-core CPU (Intel, preferably), not some ancient POS with P4 and IDE. Asrock had several great boards.

Quote:
and hope that soldiering the card fixes it
Doubt it, but good luck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post
apparently the drivers for the PCIe cards cause some horizontal offset.
It's a hard image shift/offset, too, sometimes even cropping the video, and creating a giant bar on the side that visible (ie, not overscan). The MPEG encoding also sucks. And you're MMC-locked to a version that removed the dropped frames counter. All-around, most PCIe are not great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BW37 View Post
Capture with any ATI AIW, whether AGP, PCI or PCIe requires WinXP.
And some rare PCI, and the USB.

Quote:
ATI never made the Win7 drivers needed for the capture functions of those cards.
ATI ceased to exist (2006) before Vista was released (2007). AMD fully abandoned all legacy video products thereafter. In a short time, AMD/ATI video gear was also ignored.

Quote:
A few have had a bit of success getting them to work (at least partially) with 32 bit Win7, but it takes a lot of playing around and is something left to those highly knowledgeable in the intricacies of Windows OS itself.
Getting it to work isn't the problem. Everything about it is unstable, and a simple reboot corrupts it functioning correctly. We managed to not only get the AIW cards to work on both WinVista and Win7, x86 only, but MMC as well on at least one system. After reboot, it quit working, and we could not get it to cooperate again afterwards. It required a full format and reinstall, then failed again at a reboot. Multiple difference systems were tried, completely different hardware for each test, same results. jwillis tried himself about 5 years after our tests, and had similar issues. He thinks it may work, but would require writing a new AIW driver, a skill neither he nor I have. And not just x86, but possibly even x64. jwillis knows enough to dive deep into drivers (but not write), so he saw something that led him to this conclusion. This was discussed in some previous threads on the site, in years past.

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  #13  
12-01-2021, 10:16 AM
unrealii unrealii is offline
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Thanks soo much for this. I realized that my old pcie motherboard supports windows xp. Been too tied up but will get to resuming this project shortly
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