ATI All In Wonder PCI-E breakout box pinout?

[brontozaur]

Hi all,

I will be doing a comparison of the popular ATI Theatre 200 chip vs GrassValley Edius NX express (able to capture lossless, unlike ADVC boxes) to see which performs better in VHS capture and then decide which one to use for my collection.
Would anyone be so super kind and tell me the pinout of the proprietary ATI all in wonder x600 pro breakout socket? It's not a mini DIN like it used to be on the older models, it's like this:
http://regmedia.co.uk/2005/05/20/aiw_1.jpg
I've checked ebay, but with no avail (there are some bundles but I don't want to throw $50 since I have the card anyway, and it's bloody Europe so shipping +$20-30..).
I could just tap S-Video IN on the pcb holes on the back side of the card, so need to locate 4pins - Luma/Chroma and grounds.
If someone has that sort of card and a multimeter nearby, it's a 1min job..
The socket is the same for all AIW 2006, x600,x800,x1950etc, both pci-e and agp versions.
It looks like 16 pin. We could then post the pinout online so that the future generations have it.

Cheers..

[lordsmurf]

All ATI AIW breakout boxes (after the 2000/2001 128Pro) card are the same.
So all AGP and PCIe cards are identical.

For example, $8 with free shipping (U.S.): http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53...-/111716863024

ATI cards do NOT have s-video in/out, even if the input looks like it. That's not s-video, but just a mini-DIN.

[msgohan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

All ATI AIW breakout boxes (after the 2000/2001 128Pro) card are the same.
So all AGP and PCIe cards are identical.

But apparently this AIW x600 needs an intermediate jack with spaghetti hanging off of it to connect the purple box to.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/ATI-X6...-Wonder-review

[lordsmurf]

Ah, yes. All the PCI express cards have a small output wire. On that is the breakout box. This is the biggest issue with trying to buy used ATI AIW PCIe cards. Most of them are missing this important piece, making it a paperweight.

For example, out of all the auctions for PCI express ATI AIW cards, only this one has it:
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53...-/181892227850

[brontozaur]

Yes, this is the problem I'm trying to solve
So if anyone had this breakout cable as in the pic, one could take a multimeter and simply measure the contacts between s-video-in on the lead and the pins on the PCB (4 pins in total). I could then easily solder a s-video-in socket directly to the board, and this way there would be no need for expensive and rare breakout cables. We could also post this to pinouts website, as there is currently no schematics for this.
Does anyone have such a breakout cable?

[lordsmurf]

You'll just need to keep browsing eBay. I don't think I have an extras that I can part with.

[enois]

First sorry for my bad English.

A few years ago I bought an auction on e-bay one used ATI AIW X800 PCI-E slot video card (exactly the one in the picture below). I was incredibly lucky to receive the complete card with all the cables, especially the breakout cables with the ATI I/O rectangular connector.
The classic breakout "purple box" (or also the “domino box”) for the AGP AIW video card are quite easy to find on Internet, but the cable with rectangular connector for the PCI-E card are as “rare as a Chinese girl with green eyes”, so I take the pinout connection and made a simple scheme for those who want to solder the connector, that best serves him, directly to the board.
The pin number order is arbitrary (I do not know if there is an official pin order from ATI),I chose it starting from the first on the top left, looking in front the connector.
I hope it's clear enough and that can be useful to someone.

ATI AIW X800 PCI-E.jpg

Also, I recently bought a ATI AIW X1900 PCI-E slot video card (exactly the one in the picture below) in a trashware store, for a few euros and, of course, without any cable.
The pinout connection seem to be the same as the X800 PCI-E card: I tested only the Y/C and the composite video input (the important ones), they are the same pin. I have not tested all the pin but presumably also the others match.

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In the forum, the AIW with the PCI-E connector are not much appreciated (maybe because it's not easy find the cables and need a specific motherboard with PCI-E slot and at the same time compatible with win XP) but in my modest opinion they works well, the captured image is clean and low noise, more than my AIW 7200 (which anyway is enough good), and also they are on average cheaper than the 9600/9700/9800 AGP, to buy used.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by enois

In the forum, the AIW with the PCI-E connector are not much appreciated

It's more because of the drivers and MMC. Newer isn't always better, and this is a great example of that. The MMC 9.1x and Catalyst 9/10 simply are not as good as the drivers from the AIW AGP era, or even the PCI Radeon AIW era. That translate into both some install issues, and some usage issues.

[rinaldimj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by enois

first sorry for my bad english.

A few years ago i bought an auction on e-bay one used ati aiw x800 pci-e slot video card (exactly the one in the picture below). I was incredibly lucky to receive the complete card with all the cables, especially the breakout cables with the ati i/o rectangular connector.
The classic breakout "purple box" (or also the “domino box”) for the agp aiw video card are quite easy to find on internet, but the cable with rectangular connector for the pci-e card are as “rare as a chinese girl with green eyes”, so i take the pinout connection and made a simple scheme for those who want to solder the connector, that best serves him, directly to the board.
The pin number order is arbitrary (i do not know if there is an official pin order from ati),i chose it starting from the first on the top left, looking in front the connector.
I hope it's clear enough and that can be useful to someone.

Attachment 8400

also, i recently bought a ati aiw x1900 pci-e slot video card (exactly the one in the picture below) in a trashware store, for a few euros and, of course, without any cable.
The pinout connection seem to be the same as the x800 pci-e card: I tested only the y/c and the composite video input (the important ones), they are the same pin. I have not tested all the pin but presumably also the others match.

Attachment 8401

in the forum, the aiw with the pci-e connector are not much appreciated (maybe because it's not easy find the cables and need a specific motherboard with pci-e slot and at the same time compatible with win xp) but in my modest opinion they works well, the captured image is clean and low noise, more than my aiw 7200 (which anyway is enough good), and also they are on average cheaper than the 9600/9700/9800 agp, to buy used.

thank you very much for this

[NJRoadfan]

Note that the breakout cable shown above with the SCART plug is for the European/PAL version of this card. The North American/NTSC breakout cable uses a DIN plug (with matching domino breakout box) on the output side.

[RockCassette]

Hi, I own an "european" aiw x1900.
I did not managed to use the SCART, so I used the black DIN plug with the purple box. The last solution works well.

[dpalomaki]

I've been playing with a X600 Pro card, looking into fabricating an I/O connector for the five essential input lines (i.e., composite, S-video, and audio).

I find the I/O connector pin mapping in post 7 does not correspond to that of my X600. The initial differences are in the ground pins. On my card the ground pins are: 2, 5, 10, 14, 16, 18, 21, 27-32 (total of 13). I wonder if this reflects the difference between the two version of the x800 card?

[enois]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpalomaki

I've been playing with a X600 Pro card, looking into fabricating an I/O connector for the five essential input lines (i.e., composite, S-video, and audio).

I find the I/O connector pin mapping in post 7 does not correspond to that of my X600. The initial differences are in the ground pins. On my card the ground pins are: 2, 5, 10, 14, 16, 18, 21, 27-32 (total of 13). I wonder if this reflects the difference between the two version of the x800 card?

I also have a AIW XT800 AGP slot, even to me seem the I/O connector has a different pinout compared to PCE-e version.

x800xt-aiw.jpg

If I remember right, at the time, found this connection (referring to the above, arbitrary, pin numeration): composite in pin -> 24, chroma pin -> 22, luma pin -> 20.

Maybe they are the same for the X600.

[jwillis84]

For the x800 xt (AGP) card:

This is labeled on the card in Silk screen in white letters, unlike the x600 pro its clearly labeled

[ AV In ]

(inputs)

header shorter closer to fan header
pin1 is to the Left facing the back of the card

(corrections coming)



You can't see it from this angle, but the other header is clearly labeled

[ AV Out ] on the other side underneath the overhanging golden RF shield

(outputs)

(corrections coming)

When using the HDTV (YPrPb) output mode, the CVBS, Chroma and Luma pins are usually reused.. I verified this with the x600 pro.. but have not on the x800 xt. The x800 xt is the (AGP) version of the card. The x800 xl is the (PCI express) version of the card. I have not verified the same thing with the x800 xl at the moment.. need to get to work.

These mini molex connectors are easy to find.

In the other thread Don found some pre-wired with pigtails ready to be connected and wired up to some ports.

Hauppauge still sells a backplane rail for their Collossus 2 card for about $14 usd that could be easily adapted to serve up access for either the Inputs or Outputs.. without using a Purple "Barney" puck or a Black and white "Domino" puck.

There are apparently no (audio Left) or (audio Right) signals on these headers because the Barney and Domino puck simply re-route those inbound and outbound directly through Blue and Green plugs direct in to and out from the sound card by-passing the card electronics.

RF connection through the mini DVI "silver stab" are not on these headers.

The RF connections are either on the white mini molex next to the RF shield for the tuner.. or through some process I haven't figured out. RF is often isolated or "balanced" with a filter network.. which may be preventing me from finding the precise connection path for the RF signals.

"happy" Correction!

The x800 xt has the "tiny" words [ Line out ] silk screened in small white letters on the board next to the white mini molex connector.. so that (is) an audio connector.. and its outbound.. so that means it can be connected internally to the aux input of a sound card to avoid having to route those externally.

Since this card is so similar to an x600 pro.. that probably means its unlabeled white mini molex is also a "Line out" connector.


note: I don't think I have access to an x800 gt (Global) card, these were primarily for the UK/EU markets and could be hard to find.


The x800 xt and x800 xl both require a 4 pin non-standard connector direct to the Power Supply to support its heavier GPU power requirements.

This is annoying and is a point in favor of choosing the x600 pro, if you have a choice. Both models have the Theater 200 chip, but the x600 pro is a simple PCI express card (no AGP version) which does not require the extra power, its both simpler to install and runs cooler.

Musings:

Since we now know the white molex is Line out, those last two pins could be RF TV/FM or audio L/R speaker out from an amplifier.. I tend to think the latter.

The reason Line out and Speaker out/in wouldn't connect is because Line out would be un-amplifed.. where the Speaker out would be amplified.

It could be then that the headers are complete replacements for the mini DVI connector.. its just not verified for sure.. and how the mini DVI gets the RF signals in and out.

[jwillis84]

At the last minute.. I realized I had the x600 pro connector connected to the x800 xt.

The x800 xt does not have the same mappings from the mini DVI to the header pins.

In fact they appear "multiplexed" to support the extra VGA connector on the x800 xt.. so I will have to sort that out.

That a x600 pro connector connected to an x800 xt card did map to header pins is interesting.. but I don't know if thats useful information.

[jwillis84]

Okay, it turns out there are (three) x800 models: xt (agp), xl (pcie), gt (pcie)

They all have the J-U-3 "feature connector" but they are wired differently.

I've confirmed the [correct] silver stab "model" for the x800 "model" does map those pins out to the JU3 connector

But there are at least (two) silver stab "models"

Its theory, but appears to be

the x600 pro and the x800 xt use the same silver stab "model" with two RF connectors

the x800 xl and the x800 gt use the (different) silver stab "model" with the extra VGA connector

The reason appears to be because the x800 xl and the x800 gt have the RF connectors on the backplane and no VGA port, but a full size DVI port instead. So they needed a VGA connector and created an alternative of the silver stab with the VGA connector.

When they created the alternative silver stab, they moved the JU3 feature connector to the back edge of the card next to the auxillary power connector and re-wired it.

At the same time they lost the white silk screen labeling for the (AV In) and (AV out) and the overhanging golden RF shield and the (Line out) connector on the x600 and x800 xt.. but they kept the JU3 feature connector with the Inputs

It would be less confusing to call the : x600 and x800 xt members of the same "family" and the x800 xl and x800 gt members of a (different) family.

But..

the x600 p is a PCIe card - silver stab model #1

the x800 xt is a AGP card - silver stab model #1

the x800 xl is a PCIe card - silver stab model #2

the x800 gt is a PCIe card - silver stab model #3

(So) MAXIMUM Confusion


The only common element to all cards is the JU3 "feature connector" which exposes the CVBS, Chroma and Luma pins.

update: the x800 gt had a "third" silver stab model with an SCART connector

[dpalomaki]

Quote:

(So) MAXIMUM Confusion

Abetted by a failure to clearly mark the peripherals/connectors to allow ready identification of appropriate pairings to the cards.

All probably among the reasons NVIDIA essentially dominated ATI, and why AMD was able to gobble them up. High quality capture of analog video is a niche market of interest to a small percent of the graphics card market.

I am expecting to receive some connectors on Monday to continue my research on the X600 Pro.

An aside: UPS is having issues - within the past 3 weeks 25% of my UPS deliveries have had issues. Including one never made it to my front step (probably delivered to another address) and one box with negative holders for a scanner arrived crushed. Some other has rather odd, delay filled routing, (about like going from Baltimore to Washington DC via Chicago).

Is there any interest in the BOB pin mapping for the ATI 8500-based Pinnacle Liquid Edition 5.5? IT has a 28-pin squarish connector. The card used the Rage Theater chip.

[jwillis84]

I could add to this dumpster fire of a firehouse of information.

But I'll send you a private message.

Just found some (more) information that may give you more choices, less answers.. more frustration.

[jwillis84]

Pinouts for

the x800 XL (PCI express card) Silver stab model #6110018300 D
(and)
the x800 XT (AGP card) Silver stab model #61120700G C

The [ AV In ] connector does have the same pin out for (both cards)

The Silver stab connector does Not have the same pin out for (both cards)

Where the mini DVI connector from the Silver stab meets the circuit board, that connector looks the same, but the signals assigned to each pin (are different) for the XL vs XT cards.

So you cannot use the 6110018300 D as a substitute for the 6110020700G C, it will not work.

The [ AV In ] connector however is a generic JST PH 2.0mm, 8 position male pin socket, its fairly easy to find pre-populated female plugs with pre-wired pigtails. These can be connected to a generic AV Input backplane such as the one available from Hauppauge for $14 usd

Here are some photos of the manuals for the XL and the XT, the outside cover is virtually indistinguishable, the first page in the manual however indicates which is for the PCI express card.

Comparing the page for [ AV Out ] is less confusing than any of the other pages with wiring diagrams, between the two you can clearly see the x800 XL PCI express using the 6110018300 D with the VGA connector.

The x800 XT AGP uses the 6110020700G C with the two RF connectors.

The other photos are labeled to explain where the [ AV In ] connector is located on each card, and where the pin 1 starts. The XL has the [ AV In ] at the back of the card. The XT has the [ AV In ] at the front of the card, next to the fan.

And here are the pinouts:

I can only guess about pins 1 & 3, I think they are high impedance L & R audio, but cannot be sure.

x800 XL - Silverstab - Input, Ouputs, VGA Connector
inputs

+-+
|x|1 -
|x 2 - G
|x 3 -
|x 4 - Chroma
|x 5 - G
|x 6 - Luma
|x 7 - G
|x|8 - CVBS
+-+

X04 io (backside of circuit board)

26 28 30 32
25 27 29 31
18 20 22 24
17 19 21 23
10 12 14 16
-9 11 13 15
-2 -4 -6 -8
-1 -3 -5 -7

-9 - Chroma
-2 - Luma
-1 - CVBS
26 - audio Left
17 - audio Right

x800 XT - Silverstab, Inputs, Outputs, RF Connectors
inputs

+-+
|x|1 -
|x 2 - G
|x 3 -
|x 4 - Chroma
|x 5 - G
|x 6 - Luma
|x 7 - G
|x|8 - CVBS
+-+

X04 io (backside of circuit board)

26 28 30 32
25 27 29 31
18 20 22 24
17 19 21 23
10 12 14 16
-9 11 13 15
-2 -4 -6 -8
-1 -3 -5 -7

22 - Chroma
20 - Luma
24 - CVBS
17 - audio Left
19 - audio Right

[lordsmurf]

You may need/want to use [code][/code] tags on diagram'ing text. I saw in the queue where the text was submitted with different spacing. The forum autocorrects bad spacing, but it will leave spacing as input in code blocks. Something to remember in these technical discussions.

Example, 5 spaces between 5's

5 5

5     5

I don't necessarily participate in these discussions, but I do (eventually) see and read all forum posts. Just reply when requested, when I can give valuable input. Sometimes just for levity. Thankfully, rarely, as a moderator, aside from fixing or merging.