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-   -   Capturing MiniDV video with aspect ratio 16:9? (http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-capture/12417-capturing-minidv-video.html)

leinrac 01-13-2022 12:26 PM

Capturing MiniDV video with aspect ratio 16:9?
 
Hi everybody , I have just registered to this forum as it seems to provide many interesting information that I cannot get to find in my country's (Italy) forums. So, congratulations ! Anyway this is my problem: I have some old Mini Dv tapes that I want to transfer to PC via firewire . At that time the tapes were recorded, they were recorded with standard aspect ratio 4:3 (even though the Jvc Camcorder did have the 16:9 option). Now, I am using Cyberlink Power Director to capture the videos from the Camcorder, and even though PD allows for a bunch of different resolution options and consequent aspect ratios , I end up getting files that have got an aspect ratio 4:3 or similar and when I watch them on my Samsung Smart Tv , they appear like that. The Tv is set on 16:9 aspect ratio. I have tried all possible ways but without success. All softwares are updated (tv, Pc, Power Director etc) . The only way to change aspect ratio is to author the file (again with Power Director) but this makes the whole process much longer. I am used to digitalized analogue formats like vhs, 8mm, Hi8 (but with the standard dongles, not via firewire) and even if originally they are 4.3, there is no problem to capture them straight away in 16:9 changing the parameters as above. It looks like the parameters do not work with firewire even though the file properties reflect them perfectly but not in the aspect ratio . I wonder if any of you guys can help me capturing mini dv , originally 4:3, straight into 16:9, even with any other sotware (free or at cost) . Thank you and sorry for being so long in my explanation.

lordsmurf 01-13-2022 12:41 PM

Use WinDV, not Cyberlink. That's your problem.

Cyberlink is not transferring ("capturing") the DV footage. It's re-encoding and making a mess. Cyberlink software has always done this, molested the source footage.

leinrac 01-13-2022 01:29 PM

Thank you for te reply but sorry, I had omitted to say that I need to obtain Mpeg2 (or MP4) files. I like the idea of WinDv but it looks like I can only get Avi files (unless I have misunderstood the features , I have not Trieste it yet ) which are very large. Is it so ? Any other suggestion ? Re Cyberlink, so far so good sa far as I am concerned, except for this issue. I am open to different options or alternative, though. Thank you.

lordsmurf 01-13-2022 01:49 PM

You need to capture the DV as DV, 13gb AVI files. After capture, feel free to encode to whatever format you want. And Hybrid is a great program (freeware) to encode those AVI files to H.264 (in MP4).

You won't be able to force Cyberlink software to do what you want, nor in good quality. Modern cheap editing software expects HD, 16x9, nothing else. Better editing software, NLEs, allow setting 4x3. But NLEs are notorious for capture issues too, dropped frames, both analog capture and DV transfer/"capture". So again, WinDV for DV sources over Firewire.

leinrac 01-13-2022 02:07 PM

Thank you again, I will try all what you kindly suggest. However, if this is the case, also Cyberlink allows me to re-encode the captured files with the appropriate aspect ratio that I want (16:9) but it takes me at least another 20/25 minutes per 1 hour, which is what I wanted to avoid, just like I am used to do with analog tapes: source 4:3 and output 16:9 at one go…

timtape 01-13-2022 03:18 PM

A film or video shot in 4:3 is shot in, er 4:3. The only way to present it in 16:9 is to chop off the tops and bottoms of the picture which tends to lose faces and heads, or stretch it horizontally so people look very strange. Some film makers do chop off the top and bottom of the picture, also called zooming in, but they go through each shot and position it so important details like heads and faces aren't chopped off. I prefer to watch 4:3 in 4:3. I tolerate the unused black areas on the left and right edges of my 16:9 TV screen.

latreche34 01-13-2022 03:43 PM

I don't understand why people change aspect ratio of a video when it is made for a specific aspect ratio such as analog video 4:3, what good could come out of it if the frame is cut off or stretched, Anyway the OP needs to post a short clip or a frame grab (not phone photo of the screen) so we can assess this DV 16:9 situation.

leinrac 01-13-2022 03:56 PM

Actually, my purpose is to watch these old tapes (4:3) on full screen (16:9). I succeed in getting mpeg2 files out of MiniDV via Firwire using Power Director of Cyberlink but when I watch them on tv they are still 4:3. I will try to post some videos later on.

traal 01-13-2022 04:23 PM

My DV camcorder can record in anamorphic widescreen, so there's no need to chop off the top and the bottom and also no need to re-encode, you just have to tell the container what is the proper aspect ratio. You can do this losslessly with FFMpeg (like this) or MKVToolNix (which I prefer).

dpalomaki 01-13-2022 07:21 PM

There are a number of methods used to display material shot as 4x3 on a 16x9 screen, and it depends on what you want to "distort" or lose.

- You see it all as intended if you "pillarbox"it - you get black (or other selected color) bands at the sides with the original 4x3 image in the center of the screen. (I prefer this for displaying 4x3 material on a wide screen. It gives me what the original creator intended.)

- you stretch the image horizontally to fill the width of the screen making everyone look fatter and circles oval.

- you "zoom and crop" (similar to open matte) by zooming to fill the screen width then crop the image to fit the 16x9 screen while keeping most important portion visible.

- some schemes (and a few TVs may offer the option) kept the center ~65% or so of the image with the original aspect ratio and stretched the left and right sides (where less interesting stuff usually is) non-linearly to fill the screen. (I find it looks odd but can get used to it if I have a few beers.)

Among the issues are the various aspect ratio setting options and capabilities of display systems. And some may lock you in to what every the HDMI signal metadata sends, but allow more options if you use an analog video input. Some offer different zoom options and aspect ration options.

Life was simple in the good old days when everything was 4x3 - then CinemaScope was invented :compress:..

leinrac 01-14-2022 04:30 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by traal (Post 81845)
My DV camcorder can record in anamorphic widescreen, so there's no need to chop off the top and the bottom and also no need to re-encode, you just have to tell the container what is the proper aspect ratio. You can do this losslessly with FFMpeg (like this) or MKVToolNix (which I prefer).

That Dv Camcorder had also that option of encoding in anamophic widescreen but the guy who did the tapes at that time did not choose that option and the footages were recorded in standard 4:3. Now he would like to have those videos transferred to usb pendrive and contacted me but he wants to watch them in widescreen. Since I do not have much time (for capturing and re-encoding) and he does not have much space (for Avi files) , my idea was to capture those footages setting a resolution say of 1280 x 720 (16:9) and get the job done at one go. (I am used to do this with analogue tapes 8mm, Hi8 etc). As I said Power Director allows me to adjust the settings that way but it ends up delivering a 1280 x 720 mpeg (format that I had selected to get the widescreen view) that unfortunately only appears in 4:3 DAR (or just a bit more but not wide screen) .

-- merged --

Please find enclosed the type of files I get before and after reencoding. The Mpeg2 file is what I get when transfering from DV Camcorder to Pc via Firewire through Power Director. It is not widescreen although I have set capturing to 1280 x 720 (the closest resoltuion for getting a widescreen. This is not good for me. Therefore I have to re-encode to widescreen 16.9 to obtain what I need . Fine, but it takes much longer.... and 2 passages (capture and re-encode) Ideally I would have liked this to be obtained at one go straight when capturing. The 2 files apperas to have same properties , though. If anyone have any idea or can suggest another software enabling me to obtain what I want at one go in Mpeg or other common compressed format like mp4, (no AVI) it would be very much appreciated

lollo2 01-14-2022 07:12 AM

Quote:

I don't understand why people change aspect ratio of a video when it is made for a specific aspect ratio such as analog video 4:3
Me neither. Some people pretend to fill their widescreen TV with whatever source. Whatever it takes.
In Italy several broadcasters crop top and bottom the 4:3 video to adapt it to larger format, mutilating the videos.

Quote:

...The Mpeg2 file is what I get when transfering from DV Camcorder to Pc via Firewire through Power Director...
The good approach is:

1- transfer (not capture) the DV files on your miniDV tapes through the firewire connection and using ScenalizerLive or WinDV
2- this will give you a bit-by-bit copy of what is on tape, whatever is there; 720x576 frame with 4:3 DAR in your case
3- you can use Run AVPS DV Analyzer to validate that there are no errors on your captured stream
4- leave the video as it is (best) or zoom and crop as suggested by dpalomaki

Quote:

my idea was to capture those footages setting a resolution say of 1280 x 720 (16:9) and get the job done at one go. (I am used to do this with analogue tapes 8mm, Hi8 etc)
For analog capture the same as before apply; for better quality you should not resize nor change DAR while capturing.

traal 01-14-2022 09:07 AM

So he doesn't want it cropped, he wants it stretched to fill the width of the screen, right?

So again just set the DAR on the container, there's no need to re-encode. It takes just a few seconds while it copies the video into a new file.

RobustReviews 01-14-2022 09:33 AM

UK broadcasters are starting to opt for 'blow and blur' as I call it (no idea what the technical term is):

Expand footage to 16:9 scaled to width,
Blur that layer,
Drop the 4:3 footage on top centrally, leaving the blurred impression of the video where conventionally 'pillar boxes' would be used.

I'm not saying it's good, but seemingly some people enjoy watching it as we're asked for it more and more. Leaves a sort of distorted blurry mess congruent with the sharp 4:3 video. It's almost as if people are so overstimulated now they need some dynamic action on the screen, regardless if it's of any benefit.

It's a tool in the toolbox, the customer is always right etc... If that's what they ask for, that's what they get. I can't see if it's of any merit personally but it's quick and easy to do.

lordsmurf 01-14-2022 09:35 AM

I don't understand what's being asked here.

I thought it was a simple case of standard 4x3 DV footage being distorted to 16x9 by notoriously crappy Cyberlink software. And the OP wanted to leave 4x3 as 4x3, not stretch. So the simple fix was to ditch the crapware, nor use NLEs, but instead the reliable tool WinDV (or Scenalyzer), as it won't screw anything up (or at most, split scenes, even when told not to).*

Is this not the case? :question:

* Noting that I dislike WinDV, or DV period, and usually capture via s-video due to start/end clip loss with the digital transfer methods.

latreche34 01-14-2022 09:42 AM

Yikes, 480 or 576 to 720? that's very destructive. Anyway, when someone insists on going the wrong way by stretching the frame for a silly purpose of filling the screen or using a resolution that doesn't make any sense despite the advice given I tend to leave the room, Bye.

leinrac 01-14-2022 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by traal (Post 81854)
So he doesn't want it cropped, he wants it stretched to fill the width of the screen, right?

So again just set the DAR on the container, there's no need to re-encode. It takes just a few seconds while it copies the video into a new file.

Yes, that is correct, that's exactly what he wants, "stretched to fill the width of the screen".
I understand that for some experts or purists of this forum it may sound 'silly' but that is what he wants and again I do not wish to spend much time so I wish to do things as simple and quick as possible.

Please which tool should I use according to your advice ? Which container would take 'just few seconds',
MKV ? (I do not wish to have AVI , firstly because it ends up to be very large, as far as I know, and secondly because it appears that Samsung Smart Tvs do not accept AVI anymore, (had some expereiences already).
Thank you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf (Post 81856)
I don't understand what's being asked here.

I thought it was a simple case of standard 4x3 DV footage being distorted to 16x9 by notoriously crappy Cyberlink software. And the OP wanted to leave 4x3 as 4x3, not stretch. So the simple fix was to ditch the crapware, nor use NLEs, but instead the reliable tool WinDV (or Scenalyzer), as it won't screw anything up (or at most, split scenes, even when told not to).*

Is this not the case? :question:

* Noting that I dislike WinDV, or DV period, and usually capture via s-video due to start/end clip loss with the digital transfer methods.

Please see my earlier answer to 'traal',

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34 (Post 81858)
Yikes, 480 or 576 to 720? that's very destructive. Anyway, when someone insists on going the wrong way by stretching the frame for a silly purpose of filling the screen or using a resolution that doesn't make any sense despite the advice given I tend to leave the room, Bye.

Apology, did not want to bother anybody, I am aware that I am not an expert and I may have used wrong terms/expressions as well to try and make myself understand , just hoped for some suggestions for my specific case

traal 01-14-2022 10:34 AM

1. Download and install MKVToolNix GUI.
2. Drag the video file into the MKVToolNix GUI window. This creates a multiplex project and takes you to the "Input" tab.
3. In the lower left pane under "Tracks, chapters and tags" select the Video track.
4. In the right pane, scroll down to "Video properties," click the drop arrow next to "Set aspect ratio" and choose "16/9".
5. At the bottom, choose the destination filename.
6. At the bottom, click "Start multiplexing".

In a few seconds, you will have a .mkv file that contains your video and will stretch it to 16:9 when you watch it.

leinrac 01-14-2022 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by traal (Post 81867)
1. Download and install MKVToolNix GUI.
2. Drag the video file into the MKVToolNix GUI window. This creates a multiplex project and takes you to the "Input" tab.
3. In the lower left pane under "Tracks, chapters and tags" select the Video track.
4. In the right pane, scroll down to "Video properties," click the drop arrow next to "Set aspect ratio" and choose "16/9".
5. At the bottom, choose the destination filename.
6. At the bottom, click "Start multiplexing".

In a few seconds, you will have a .mkv file that contains your video and will stretch it to 16:9 when you watch it.

:):thumb: Thank you , will try

RayNotes 01-14-2022 11:50 AM

He is capturing the video at 1280x720 but the DAR is still 4:3. The 4:3 video he posted is 1280x720 pixels, but playing it back in VLC set to "default aspect ratio" displays 4:3 image. So he just needs to know how to reset the DAR from 4:3 to 16:9, without re-encoding the files. Is there a simple procedure for that? I know someone mentioned just switching the aspect ratio in the container but I've never done that before, or I'd list out the process.

UPDATE: Looks like Traal got him squared away.


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