Capturing MiniDV video with aspect ratio 16:9?
 

Hi everybody , I have just registered to this forum as it seems to provide many interesting information that I cannot get to find in my country's (Italy) forums. So, congratulations ! Anyway this is my problem: I have some old Mini Dv tapes that I want to transfer to PC via firewire . At that time the tapes were recorded, they were recorded with standard aspect ratio 4:3 (even though the Jvc Camcorder did have the 16:9 option). Now, I am using Cyberlink Power Director to capture the videos from the Camcorder, and even though PD allows for a bunch of different resolution options and consequent aspect ratios , I end up getting files that have got an aspect ratio 4:3 or similar and when I watch them on my Samsung Smart Tv , they appear like that. The Tv is set on 16:9 aspect ratio. I have tried all possible ways but without success. All softwares are updated (tv, Pc, Power Director etc) . The only way to change aspect ratio is to author the file (again with Power Director) but this makes the whole process much longer. I am used to digitalized analogue formats like vhs, 8mm, Hi8 (but with the standard dongles, not via firewire) and even if originally they are 4.3, there is no problem to capture them straight away in 16:9 changing the parameters as above. It looks like the parameters do not work with firewire even though the file properties reflect them perfectly but not in the aspect ratio . I wonder if any of you guys can help me capturing mini dv , originally 4:3, straight into 16:9, even with any other sotware (free or at cost) . Thank you and sorry for being so long in my explanation.

Use WinDV, not Cyberlink. That's your problem.

Cyberlink is not transferring ("capturing") the DV footage. It's re-encoding and making a mess. Cyberlink software has always done this, molested the source footage.

Thank you for te reply but sorry, I had omitted to say that I need to obtain Mpeg2 (or MP4) files. I like the idea of WinDv but it looks like I can only get Avi files (unless I have misunderstood the features , I have not Trieste it yet ) which are very large. Is it so ? Any other suggestion ? Re Cyberlink, so far so good sa far as I am concerned, except for this issue. I am open to different options or alternative, though. Thank you.

You need to capture the DV as DV, 13gb AVI files. After capture, feel free to encode to whatever format you want. And Hybrid is a great program (freeware) to encode those AVI files to H.264 (in MP4).

You won't be able to force Cyberlink software to do what you want, nor in good quality. Modern cheap editing software expects HD, 16x9, nothing else. Better editing software, NLEs, allow setting 4x3. But NLEs are notorious for capture issues too, dropped frames, both analog capture and DV transfer/"capture". So again, WinDV for DV sources over Firewire.

Thank you again, I will try all what you kindly suggest. However, if this is the case, also Cyberlink allows me to re-encode the captured files with the appropriate aspect ratio that I want (16:9) but it takes me at least another 20/25 minutes per 1 hour, which is what I wanted to avoid, just like I am used to do with analog tapes: source 4:3 and output 16:9 at one go…

A film or video shot in 4:3 is shot in, er 4:3. The only way to present it in 16:9 is to chop off the tops and bottoms of the picture which tends to lose faces and heads, or stretch it horizontally so people look very strange. Some film makers do chop off the top and bottom of the picture, also called zooming in, but they go through each shot and position it so important details like heads and faces aren't chopped off. I prefer to watch 4:3 in 4:3. I tolerate the unused black areas on the left and right edges of my 16:9 TV screen.

I don't understand why people change aspect ratio of a video when it is made for a specific aspect ratio such as analog video 4:3, what good could come out of it if the frame is cut off or stretched, Anyway the OP needs to post a short clip or a frame grab (not phone photo of the screen) so we can assess this DV 16:9 situation.

Actually, my purpose is to watch these old tapes (4:3) on full screen (16:9). I succeed in getting mpeg2 files out of MiniDV via Firwire using Power Director of Cyberlink but when I watch them on tv they are still 4:3. I will try to post some videos later on.

My DV camcorder can record in anamorphic widescreen, so there's no need to chop off the top and the bottom and also no need to re-encode, you just have to tell the container what is the proper aspect ratio. You can do this losslessly with FFMpeg (like this) or MKVToolNix (which I prefer).

There are a number of methods used to display material shot as 4x3 on a 16x9 screen, and it depends on what you want to "distort" or lose.

- You see it all as intended if you "pillarbox"it - you get black (or other selected color) bands at the sides with the original 4x3 image in the center of the screen. (I prefer this for displaying 4x3 material on a wide screen. It gives me what the original creator intended.)

- you stretch the image horizontally to fill the width of the screen making everyone look fatter and circles oval.

- you "zoom and crop" (similar to open matte) by zooming to fill the screen width then crop the image to fit the 16x9 screen while keeping most important portion visible.

- some schemes (and a few TVs may offer the option) kept the center ~65% or so of the image with the original aspect ratio and stretched the left and right sides (where less interesting stuff usually is) non-linearly to fill the screen. (I find it looks odd but can get used to it if I have a few beers.)

Among the issues are the various aspect ratio setting options and capabilities of display systems. And some may lock you in to what every the HDMI signal metadata sends, but allow more options if you use an analog video input. Some offer different zoom options and aspect ration options.

Life was simple in the good old days when everything was 4x3 - then CinemaScope was invented :compress:..

That Dv Camcorder had also that option of encoding in anamophic widescreen but the guy who did the tapes at that time did not choose that option and the footages were recorded in standard 4:3. Now he would like to have those videos transferred to usb pendrive and contacted me but he wants to watch them in widescreen. Since I do not have much time (for capturing and re-encoding) and he does not have much space (for Avi files) , my idea was to capture those footages setting a resolution say of 1280 x 720 (16:9) and get the job done at one go. (I am used to do this with analogue tapes 8mm, Hi8 etc). As I said Power Director allows me to adjust the settings that way but it ends up delivering a 1280 x 720 mpeg (format that I had selected to get the widescreen view) that unfortunately only appears in 4:3 DAR (or just a bit more but not wide screen) .

-- merged --

Please find enclosed the type of files I get before and after reencoding. The Mpeg2 file is what I get when transfering from DV Camcorder to Pc via Firewire through Power Director. It is not widescreen although I have set capturing to 1280 x 720 (the closest resoltuion for getting a widescreen. This is not good for me. Therefore I have to re-encode to widescreen 16.9 to obtain what I need . Fine, but it takes much longer.... and 2 passages (capture and re-encode) Ideally I would have liked this to be obtained at one go straight when capturing. The 2 files apperas to have same properties , though. If anyone have any idea or can suggest another software enabling me to obtain what I want at one go in Mpeg or other common compressed format like mp4, (no AVI) it would be very much appreciated

Me neither. Some people pretend to fill their widescreen TV with whatever source. Whatever it takes.
In Italy several broadcasters crop top and bottom the 4:3 video to adapt it to larger format, mutilating the videos.

The good approach is:

1- transfer (not capture) the DV files on your miniDV tapes through the firewire connection and using ScenalizerLive or WinDV
2- this will give you a bit-by-bit copy of what is on tape, whatever is there; 720x576 frame with 4:3 DAR in your case
3- you can use Run AVPS DV Analyzer to validate that there are no errors on your captured stream
4- leave the video as it is (best) or zoom and crop as suggested by dpalomaki

For analog capture the same as before apply; for better quality you should not resize nor change DAR while capturing.

So he doesn't want it cropped, he wants it stretched to fill the width of the screen, right?

So again just set the DAR on the container, there's no need to re-encode. It takes just a few seconds while it copies the video into a new file.

UK broadcasters are starting to opt for 'blow and blur' as I call it (no idea what the technical term is):

Expand footage to 16:9 scaled to width,
Blur that layer,
Drop the 4:3 footage on top centrally, leaving the blurred impression of the video where conventionally 'pillar boxes' would be used.

I'm not saying it's good, but seemingly some people enjoy watching it as we're asked for it more and more. Leaves a sort of distorted blurry mess congruent with the sharp 4:3 video. It's almost as if people are so overstimulated now they need some dynamic action on the screen, regardless if it's of any benefit.

It's a tool in the toolbox, the customer is always right etc... If that's what they ask for, that's what they get. I can't see if it's of any merit personally but it's quick and easy to do.

I don't understand what's being asked here.

I thought it was a simple case of standard 4x3 DV footage being distorted to 16x9 by notoriously crappy Cyberlink software. And the OP wanted to leave 4x3 as 4x3, not stretch. So the simple fix was to ditch the crapware, nor use NLEs, but instead the reliable tool WinDV (or Scenalyzer), as it won't screw anything up (or at most, split scenes, even when told not to).*

Is this not the case? :question:

* Noting that I dislike WinDV, or DV period, and usually capture via s-video due to start/end clip loss with the digital transfer methods.

Yikes, 480 or 576 to 720? that's very destructive. Anyway, when someone insists on going the wrong way by stretching the frame for a silly purpose of filling the screen or using a resolution that doesn't make any sense despite the advice given I tend to leave the room, Bye.

Yes, that is correct, that's exactly what he wants, "stretched to fill the width of the screen".
I understand that for some experts or purists of this forum it may sound 'silly' but that is what he wants and again I do not wish to spend much time so I wish to do things as simple and quick as possible.

Please which tool should I use according to your advice ? Which container would take 'just few seconds',
MKV ? (I do not wish to have AVI , firstly because it ends up to be very large, as far as I know, and secondly because it appears that Samsung Smart Tvs do not accept AVI anymore, (had some expereiences already).
Thank you.

Please see my earlier answer to 'traal',

Apology, did not want to bother anybody, I am aware that I am not an expert and I may have used wrong terms/expressions as well to try and make myself understand , just hoped for some suggestions for my specific case

1. Download and install MKVToolNix GUI.
2. Drag the video file into the MKVToolNix GUI window. This creates a multiplex project and takes you to the "Input" tab.
3. In the lower left pane under "Tracks, chapters and tags" select the Video track.
4. In the right pane, scroll down to "Video properties," click the drop arrow next to "Set aspect ratio" and choose "16/9".
5. At the bottom, choose the destination filename.
6. At the bottom, click "Start multiplexing".

In a few seconds, you will have a .mkv file that contains your video and will stretch it to 16:9 when you watch it.

:):thumb: Thank you , will try

He is capturing the video at 1280x720 but the DAR is still 4:3. The 4:3 video he posted is 1280x720 pixels, but playing it back in VLC set to "default aspect ratio" displays 4:3 image. So he just needs to know how to reset the DAR from 4:3 to 16:9, without re-encoding the files. Is there a simple procedure for that? I know someone mentioned just switching the aspect ratio in the container but I've never done that before, or I'd list out the process.

UPDATE: Looks like Traal got him squared away.

Unluckily Traal’s way did not work. I have tried with Mkvtoolnix just following the indicated procedure. I was full of expectations. I have generated the mkv container setting 16:9 aspect ratio but when II tried to Watch it in the tv it still appears ad 4:3 . In the pc Wmp shows the file as full widescreen (and vlc too ) but Samsung Smart tv still shows 4:3. I have other files mpeg2, mkv etc that appears in 16:9 and also the e files that Ihave posted look fine widescreen but only after re-encoding . If there is no way out, I will have to surrender…

I think your TV ignores the container's aspect ratio flag on the .mkv file and uses the bitstream flag which is set to 4:3 on your "NO WIDESCREEN" file.

I managed to change it in FFMpeg using the following line:

Unfortunately, FFMpeg complains that there's something wrong with the audio and so the output file doesn't have any audio. You could use MKVToolNix to add it back in, just drag both .mpg files into the window and uncheck the old video stream but keep the audio.

Another thing I noticed, there's some panning blur in the video and so I'm wondering if the miniDV video is really 25fps. Also, miniDV is interlaced, so it would be good to start fresh with WinDV to get the raw .avi file, then deinterlace to 50fps to make the panning motion even smoother.

As Lordsmurf has implied above, just capture as analog via the s-video and analog audio out of the DV camcorder (assuming that is your playback device). That would fit your normal process. Of course you'll need the correct analog out cable(s) for the camcorder. Going analog is not the perfectionist approach, but appears to be in scope for your workflow and customer's needs.

As has also been stated, going firewire out is just a bit accurate streamed file transfer from the tape to an AVI file (or files) on a PC. It's never going to do anything else so a secondary encoding process is always going to be required.

BW

Many digital TV's and video player remotes give the user the option to "zoom in" on the film or video at the press of a button, not just on their own home videos but on any film, video or TV show watched. Does the owner of the tapes know about that "zoom in" function on their remote and do they already use it?

Too bad, the DV Camcorder only has got composite out and firewire , no svhs and in any case I agree that going analog would not be the best even though I understand this would be the quickest way without encoding again. I also understand the "Firewire to Avi, only" issue. I have just learned this from this Forum/topic. What got me confused is the fact that when I "TRANSFER" the footage from Camcorder to Pc via Firewire, the software (Cyberlink Power Director) gives me a wide selection of adjustments which in theory would help me but they do not work (for my specific purpose).Popups appear whenever an option in terms of final format, resolution etc is technically not accepted by the software (For instance, H264 as final format). Do not get me wrong , I am talking about when "getting video transferred" not when "later encoding" . This led me to understand that selectiing any of the proper and allowed adjustments, would have allowed me to achieve my goal. Unfortunately it does not seem to be the case but "one learns as he goes"

When playbacking the videos, it seems that only 4:3 and 16:9 options are available. Actually There are other options for adjusting diemsnions of diplay but they are not highlighted and therefore cannot be chosen for file playback. In any case, zooming would make the view much worse as it would blur the images and reduce furthermore the (already poor) sharpness.

Appreciate your remarks, thank you , will try and make other attempts , but I am wondering whether it would make more sense for me to give up...

FWIW: SVHS is an analog tape format. The signal connection is S-VIDEO as in separate video, two wires (typically in the same cable/connector) one for luma, one for chroma information).

AVI is a file type developed by Microsoft (Audio/Video Interleave) and is a container for video/audio data, not the actual video which is encoded in the file using a CODEC. It is a bit like a book case that contains books, but you need to know the language of each book before you can read it. Similarly your viewing device must have the appropriate CODEC before it can display an AVI file. AVI files can be large or small depending on the CODEC used.

What individual devices support (e.g., TVs, DVD/BD players. cable STBs) is up to the manufacturer and may be driven by a variety if factors not the least of which include potential copyright use royalties (often listed in the back of the user manuals).

You are right, should have written S-Video , although I understand the principle of separating the 2 signals is a Svhs and Hi8 feature, that is why I by oversight have indicated Svhs in my previous post.

I am not sure, but if you refer to my previous claim about Samsung Smart Tvs do not accept Avi, well, both myself and my Client do have Samsung Smart Tvs and although in their manuals both .Avi Container and .Avi files are in the list of compatible formats, they are not. In Samsung forums (at least in my country, Italy) there are plenty of complaints to Samsung about this. Personally I am not to much bothered about this because I am not used to work with thois container and files, but It might be the case now should I end up generating Avi for my specific issue of avoiding encoding (but I do not think I will) .

FWIW: The following link is to a site that claims to list the supported containers and codec and related limitations for Samsung smart TV going back a number of years. You may need to brows it a bit to find the models of interest to you.

https://developer.samsung.com/smartt...fications.html

In fact many Samsung tv owners (like me) do complain that Avi containers and avi files are supposed to be supported , whereas in reality the are not in particular the tv models released during the last 2-3 years .

FWIW: I have a 2013 vintage Samsung Smart TV. Attached is a page from the User Manual that details the file format & codec support, including supported resolutions. Different models may offer different support. For the model I have it is rather limited. (However, I did not buy it with video on USB media in mind.)

Note that the DV codec is not listed, nor are the usual SD formats (720x480 and 720x486). Thus an AVI coded in them is unlikely to play. However I was able to play an AVI in the AVC (aka MPEG4) codec which is listed. So no surprises there.

Maybe consult the manual for the model(s) you have and try AVI files with listed codecs and resolutions.

Of course that can means recoding the DV material to a supported codec and resolution

FWIW: I usef to have a similar vintage Samsung Tv and it use to work fine and support Avi ad well. I understand that most recents Samsung Smart tvs do not support Avi any more and many buyers complain about this. In any case I do not have any problem with that as I woould not encode to Avi , my purpose is to avoid encoding.

In 10 years, you're going to realize that encoding video to appease a TV was really stupid to do. People constantly regret all the BS that was done to appease DVD players with DivX in the 2000s into the 2010s.

Encoding a copy to the limited devices/need is fine.
Encoding the master is dumb.

So:
yes = DV tapes > master transferred DV files (or lossless capture) > copy to make dumb "smart" TV happy
yes = DV tapes > transfer/capture, encode to quality file like high bitrate 4:2:2 MPEG > copy to make dumb "smart" TV happy
no = DV tape > master encode to make dumb "smart" TV happy

FWIW: interesting enough, I have an HDD recorder with FireWire IN. I can transfer 4:3 DAR footages from Dv Camcorder and selecting 16:9 option in the HDD RECORDER I can obtain 720 x 576 (I am in Europe) footages with anamorphic 16:9 DAR. This is the good part of it. the bad part is that , once recorded the trasfered video, I can only record on dvd. No other way out from the hard disk of the HDD Recorder. In other words, I have to trasfer footage to HDD , then put it on dvd and then to pc for finally store it into usb pendrive (after merging the vob files) . Way too long… Maybe (not sure) I might record steaight to dvd instead of hdd but I do not like that idea as if something goes wrong with the dvd I would have to start all over again. At the end of the day, I wonder if really there is no software out there that can simply allow me to transfer and obtain the footage in anamorphic 16:9 DAR at one go same as my LG HDD recorder.

This said, if there is no further suggestion or idea, I will not pursue this thread and Wish to thank all who have tried to support me.

I agree but my problem is the Lack of time that is the reason why. I had hoped it would be d’implementazione to find a solution but if there is not then of course I will have to do nothing else Than encoding…

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Sorry the automatic typing messed up:
“I had hoped it would have been easy to find a solution…”

Try to edit your recent posts, or use the multi-quote button to the right of the QUOTE button. Making multiple posts in a row means I have to take the time to merge.

Sorry, I apologize, will follow the suggested procedure from now on