Quantcast Hi8 transfer quality terrible with movement? - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
01-29-2022, 08:04 AM
zuzuspetals zuzuspetals is offline
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I have just begun converting my old Hi8 tapes using Elgato Video Capture and have encountered a frustrating issue.

When I convert video with a lot of jerky movement (such as video taken while walking or, worse, when riding a horse), the original video appears perfectly fine in the camcorder’s viewfinder (see attached video) but the converted video on my Mac is terrible (see attached video for a typical example). However, when the video does not have a lot of movement, the quality is completely fine for my needs.

For reference, I'm using a 1996-era Hitachi camcorder with the S-Video connector for the video. All preferences on the Elgato Video Capture app are default.

I would greatly appreciate any help/advice anyone could provide me with the resolve this issue. Many thanks in advance.


Attached Files
File Type: mov Elgato_Converted Video_Poor_Quality.mov (2.79 MB, 18 downloads)
File Type: mov Original_Movie_Through_Viewfinder_Smooth_Movement.mov (5.63 MB, 16 downloads)
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  #2  
01-29-2022, 12:14 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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You need some sort of signal stabilization to be able to capture when using a crappy capture device like Elgato, Either a camcorder with built in line TBC or a DVD recorder as a passthrough. It has nothing to do with the video contents on the tape, riding a horse or a donkey the behavior would still exist. Also try a different capture application like AmarecTV or vdub.

https://www.youtube.com/user/latoak34/videos
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The following users thank latreche34 for this useful post: zuzuspetals (01-29-2022)
  #3  
01-29-2022, 08:12 PM
zuzuspetals zuzuspetals is offline
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@latreche34, thank you very much for your helpful comments and guidance. As for the content on the tape, most of the footage does not exhibit this issue. It's mainly footage captured while walking that's the problem. I thought it would be useful for diagnostic purposes to highlight this difference.
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  #4  
01-30-2022, 07:18 PM
traal traal is offline
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It looks like it needs more than just a line TBC.
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  #5  
01-31-2022, 03:31 AM
Eric-Jan Eric-Jan is offline
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The differrence between normal play and needing the signal for capture is indeed different, A Panasonic DVD recorder should do the trick, using a Panasonic one does, for me, it's the combo recorder DMR-ES35V using this one as passthrough just works, it even has a iLink input, if you can play the tape on a Digital8 player/Cam,
but s-video/composite is also fine, not all TBC devices will give good results, you need to dive in the technology of that, or find a working videonics mx-1.
(or just try to get hold of a Panasonic DMR-ES10 or DMR-ES15 dvd recorder, as passthrough, that will do trick is my guess…)
I'm using an Intensity Shuttle from BlackMagic Design (Thunderbolt2 port version) with a 2015 MacBookPro, using the ProRes codec for capture (LT) this codec is lossy but that on a whole frame and has no effect on the video quality, like a MP4 post codec.

Last edited by Eric-Jan; 01-31-2022 at 03:46 AM.
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  #6  
01-31-2022, 04:34 AM
Hushpower Hushpower is online now
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Further to Eric-Jan's comments, have a look at this thread for the improvements an ES-10 will give you:

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...d)#post2607662
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  #7  
01-31-2022, 05:30 AM
Eric-Jan Eric-Jan is offline
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You do need the remote controler that comes with the ES10/15 for the settings in the menu's

Using converters is always a gamble, the cheap one's are in different versions, using a good working ES10 or ES15 just works.
Hope you can find one, show us also you result when you have done so.

Last edited by Eric-Jan; 01-31-2022 at 05:42 AM.
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  #8  
01-31-2022, 07:34 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is online now
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This thread is going down the wrong path...

Quote:
Originally Posted by zuzuspetals View Post
I have just begun converting my old Hi8 tapes using Elgato Video Capture
This is part of the problem. Elgato earned the nickname "Elcrapo" for their video capture. Some of the effects you see are common with it.

Quote:
When I convert video with a lot of jerky movement
That's not jerky. It's outright unstable.

Quote:
For reference, I'm using a 1996-era Hitachi camcorder with the S-Video connector for the video.
Does it have a line TBC?
If so, great, turn it on.
If not, seriously, just get a better camera. You'll save yourself lots of headache. Buy it, use it, resell it. But again, this only part of the issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zuzuspetals View Post
most of the footage does not exhibit this issue.
Unlikely.
More likely is you're not (yet) seeing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by traal View Post
It looks like it needs more than just a line TBC.
Yep. It's a combination of issues here:
- known bad card
- lack of line TBC
- lack of frame TBC, as Hi8 is a drop=happy formats (more than normal decent VHS)

So, this is the fix:
- better capture card
- better camera with line TBC
- some form of frame TBC, ideally actual frame TBC -- and buy it, use it, resell it

A major issue here will be the Mac. Macs can do several tasks quite well, but video capture isn't one of them. It was never one. You get a poor choice of cards to choose from, and your quality will never be as good. You'll often have problems along the way. Macs give you a miserable video capture experience, especially anything in the post-10.14 era. There were a few decent combos of card/software for Mac from 10.6.8 to 10.14, essentially late 2000s to mid 2010s. Much like Win8/10, Mac OS 10.15 gives you lots of issues, sometimes nuking cards entirely. So if you can setup a dedicated Windows system for capture, do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric-Jan View Post
A Panasonic DVD recorder should do the trick,
Not as good. If you're going to spend money, then simply put it towards a better camera with line TBC. The ES10/15 type Panasonics add problems that you won't get with simply a better camera.

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  #9  
01-31-2022, 07:57 AM
Eric-Jan Eric-Jan is offline
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It's easier to get a es10/15 then a camera with TBC.. a good Video8 camera with TBC is very rare,
any other type of Video8 camera needs stablilzation anyway,
a pro TBC is even more difficult to find, if not expensive, and you need the knowledge about what a TBC does anyway,
a DMR-ES10 or ES15 would be a better (and cheaper) first attempt, instead of trying to go for perfection the first time.
the link of Hushpower proves that.
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  #10  
01-31-2022, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric-Jan View Post
It's easier to get a es10/15 then a camera with TBC.. a good Video8/Digital8/Hi8 camera is very rare,
Not correct. I can go on eBay now and find several for a decent price. Unlike VCRs, and TBCs, cameras are still semi-safe, as long as you ask questions (original owner, non-smoking, how often used, who used it, etc). If you can't get that info, consider passing on it, look for another. I often see whole packages that include camera, case, cables, blank tapes, etc. It was just something in (now-grandma's) closet, decided to cash it in.

Quote:
and you need the knowledge about what a TBC does anyway,
a pro TBC is even more difficult to find,
Not really. Most are boring boxes. You plug the cable in/out, and done. There's nothing for you do to, no settings, nothing. The magic box purifies the signal, the end. Yes, you can opt for models with more advanced features, like proc amp, but certain models (ue, TBC-1000) have nothing but a power button. Even the more advanced models aren't hard if you RTFM, which are often PDF on this site..

Quote:
if not expensive,
Perhaps, or perhaps not. DIY video is a hobby, even if just a temporary hobby. All hobbies have costs. Overall, even buying a TBC, video conversion is a cheap hobby. And then buy it, use it, resell it. While I completely understand the inability to buy/budget for certain items (financial choices to make, A or B, not both), been there myself in decades past, it's not true of everybody. Currently, consumers are the most cash-flush they've been in decade. That's part of why supply&demand has hit so many areas, including video conversion gear.

Quote:
a DMR-ES10 or ES15 would be a better (and cheaper) first attempt, instead of trying to go for perfection the first time. the link of Hushpower proves that.
- Not better, a lower (but still decent) quality option.
- Not really cheaper.
- The link doesn't really prove anything, as far as the points being made here. Merely that it's a decent option. Usually, not always.

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