Are the defective AVT-8710s completely useless?

[LordSandwich]

I have one of the crap AVT-8710 time base correctors. It doesn't do the frozen fields thing all the time, so I was wondering whether it is actually doing anything at all when it's not messing up the video output. Would it be better to just not use it at all?

[hodgey]

Well it does ensure the output from it is a stable signal still, the errors are gonna be baked in though, and it might be an option if you purely need to strip macrovision for something, or if you need extrernal proc amp adjustment for some purpose.

In theory it's possible one could manage to reprogram the code that is loaded to the CPLD chip from eeprom to fix the issues with the right skills if the cause of the errors is something with the programming/register setup of the chips which is something I suspect, but that's beyond me.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordSandwich

Would it be better to just not use it at all?

Correct, do not use.

Quote:

I have one of the crap AVT-8710 time base correctors. It doesn't do the frozen fields thing all the time, so I was wondering whether it is actually doing anything at all when it's not messing up the video output.

It's removing, preventing AND inducing/adding errors. One step forward, one step back. In fact, in some cases, half a step forward, two steps back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodgey

and it might be an option if you purely need to strip macrovision for something, or if you need extrernal proc amp adjustment for some purpose.

It has niche uses. Cheap weak analog proc amp for video artwork users, where glitches are usually a feature and not a bug. Maybe for grabbing short clips, like for Youtube creations. Or for anything that does not matter, like a quick preview copy, though capturing a tape twice is not really suggested if avoidable.

Honestly, this is hoarder behavior, trying to find a use for known crap. Outside the box is fine, but sometimes you just have to cut your losses with this stuff.

Quote:

In theory it's possible one could manage to reprogram the code that is loaded to the CPLD chip from eeprom to fix the issues with the right skills if the cause of the errors is something with the programming/register setup of the chips which is something I suspect, but that's beyond me.

No, bitlocked. Already tried, dead end.

Futhermore, it's strongly believe to be chip incompatibilities, back when Cypress had production changes. They started to run out of chips in 2008 (EOL'd), some cobble-type boards are seen from time to time. Then units were not produced again until about 2010, with yet more new board chips. It's a mess. It was never fixed.

The AVT-8710 cases were no longer green (probably also availability issues), so it was easy to spot. However, other Cypress retained the same casing, so externally it can be difficult to see differences. And because some models, some chips, were sanded, even looking at the board can be elusive. Anything still sold new, aka NOS, is guaranteed from the "black" generation, 2010s backstock. Nobody has 2000s backstock anymore, and that includes the Aus/NZ shops (the last holdout for any NOS, it seems).

It must be powered up, tests run. The "JVC menu test" is an easy test, but not the only test. But that test can get murky, because the menu is not 100% NTSC compliant (nor PAL), so that test can give a false positive, though rarely with the Cypress. This is one of those areas where newbies won't be able to discern much, even by exhaustive reading. It's very much an experience issue with these screwy TBCs, to see false positives.

But a black AVT-8710 is a definite bad unit, no need to even test.

To add a monkey wrench, with the green AVT-8710 units, I've seen odd situations where it appears that the boards were swapped. Some were just scammer sellers on eBay/etc. But others may have had a less nefarious reason: organizations (corporate, studios, education) may have had extended warranty contracts with TVOne/AVT, a standard practice. When the bad unit was sent in, the "fixed" unit was merely board swapped. But not really "swapped" either, as TVOne likely just ordered some bare boards from Cypress for warranty servicing.

Why swapped, you ask? I had contacted TVOne multiple times in the 2010s, and never got any useful information. They were truly a low-knowledge rebadge operation. The bad boards were probably trashed, as we've never seen a good black unit (aka, repair bad board, refurb into new case, ie what Apple often does with their refurbs).

[LordSandwich]

Quote:

No, bitlocked. Already tried, dead end.

Bastards. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised; electronics companies have been doing this sort of spiteful, anti-competitive crap for years.

Also, wouldn't the chip be a ROM, so no reprogramming anyway?

[timtape]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordSandwich

I have one of the crap AVT-8710 time base correctors. It doesn't do the frozen fields thing all the time, so I was wondering whether it is actually doing anything at all when it's not messing up the video output. Would it be better to just not use it at all?

I've had a black model for many years. A couple of years ago the picture started to break up. Being a tech, I opened it up, measured the SMD capacitors and found two had failed or were borderline. Replaced them and the unit has been fine ever since. The unit does seem to get hot at times so I have drilled extra ventilation holes in the plastic case.

Why not ask a competent tech to check for obvious problems like failed SMD caps? The cost of testing should be a small fraction of replacement cost.

[hodgey]

Hm, could check on the black one I have here if it has dodgy caps, though it's been having problems from the start, both the field "sticking" and overheating (was bought new) so would be odd if the caps were bad already.

[lordsmurf]

I've never seen a good black unit. Not one. And I'm certain none exist. All have the flawed chipsets that results in frame sticking issues, amongst other issues.

However, people do miss the issues without a detailed scan of their captures, assuming the captures are fine, when in fact there are many errors. The "JVC menu test" is always the quick way to see the issues with a "black" generation Cypress. The TBC chokes on the menu signal, often violently. Tearing, ghosting, chrome break noises, some others. Ugly stuff, crap TBC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordSandwich

Bastards. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised; electronics companies have been doing this sort of spiteful, anti-competitive crap for years.

I don't know that I agree with this. Software on a chip is generally not consumer level dabbling, but instead industrial IP theft (China!) prevention. So for that reason, I not only don't agree, I wholly approve. China needs to quit stealing everything, then pooping out inferior versions by cutting corners with their knockoffs. That's how we got Easycraps/etc for hardware, buggy Chinese software that ruins video quality, etc.

[LordSandwich]

Quote:

Software on a chip is generally not consumer level dabbling, but instead industrial IP theft (China!) prevention.

I think if Cypress and co. really cared about the quality of their product, they would have issued a product recall when it became obvious that the units were bad.

Also, if the device was something that anyone wanted to copy, they would just make a fake green/black box that passes the signal from input to output without doing anything at all to it. That would probably be as useful as the current, defective black TBCs anyway.

[lordsmurf]

Cypress = Taiwan based company
Taiwan company issuing recall for anything =

The fake box ... hmm ... don't give them ideas.

[timtape]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodgey

Hm, could check on the black one I have here if it has dodgy caps, though it's been having problems from the start, both the field "sticking" and overheating (was bought new) so would be odd if the caps were bad already.

Correction. Mine's a blue one. Another thing I learned is to never use it on auto system. After a blank section of tape it loses the video system and takes some seconds to find it again. I always select the system manually.