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02-21-2022, 10:09 AM
Teo97_P4 Teo97_P4 is offline
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Hello,

I am Teo I am new to this forum i have a long story ( i will try to keep it short).

Sorry for my bad English!
I love my vhs collection and i want to digitaze them i do want the good quality or even the best.
When i am done digitizing them i am not going to throw them out the window, i will keep my collection and also wil keep buying more, so now you know this... lets move on.
(Disclaimer forgive me i didn't now this forum existed until last 2 weeks)
These past 2 months for me have been a real struggle in short: I taught i had good equipment but i think i dont.
Alright so i have the Panasonic vhs player (NV-FJ615) i always used this one on my big television samsung 50inch lcd from 2009, and to me it had a great picture so i used that one and decided to do my digitizing work, how ever after doing that i got tape noise,blue screens,audio glitches and syncing problem.
(note: i didn't had these when hooked on the tv strange huh?) After discovering this i uesd a other Panasonic this one i use private watching vhs its an older model (NV-SJ206) this one also suffered the blue screens and audio syncing but alot less then the other Panasonic. audio drop out was gone!
Then i used a samsung vcr and this solved the blue screen problem as wel as the audio sync problem but... this had not a great pictrue qaultiy even when cleaned (note: i cleaned my vcrs good).
Got a bit annoyed i did resaerch i started to look for better vhs players and came to know this site and also that my vhs players are actually shitty cheap crap players.
So i drove literly 380 km in total to buy the JVC hr s8500 for 150 euros and i was amazed and happy with the quality this JVC gave me.
However the next problem occurred the audio sync is stil a problem. (sometimes)
Sometimes the movie and audio is great but then suddenly the audio sync goes for 2-5 min and then it gets to normal. I captured the video film Jason x (great movie btw) its good in the first 45 min and then Suddenly the audio has a syncing problem, with syncing problem i mean the picture and audio doesn't match. (it is not the JVC its fault) then i wanted to convert Minorty report Tom Cruise and that one was even worser. the picture is great noting bad but the film starts in a fast forward so in short the film looks like it is fast forwarding the film in secs.
this can be the elgato software problem or the capture card it self?
I did some resaerch i came to this site and i have learned alot CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG!

so bassilcy i need a good s-vhs player with tbc (check)
but also i need a good dvd player that has a virtual tbc and a good capture card? is my elgato good?

my problem: The dvd is not a big problem i can find the Panasonic dmr es10/15 np but i use the elgato video captrue that costed me 99 euros and some peole here say its trash i have to admit the software is basic sometimes it lags.
But what i dont understand i have done hours weeks months of research and the elgato came in the best i watched alot of youtube video stating this is ''the capture card'' becasue the other cards that are like 10 50 euros are trash i dont much care about paying 99 euros or 150 to better equipment as long as it is real good equipment do you understand otherwise i would not have bought the jvc so yeah.

and if the elgato is the problem(i hope not) can some please tel me how i can get a good capture card that doesnt cost me a 1000 dollars/euros so i ask for advice i am starting to get desperate i want good quality without breaking the bank again i can get the panasonic dvd np

On a site note: I use the following equipment: now i use a alienware pc with a amd ryzen 5950x 16gb ddr4 3200mhz xmp 2x 2tb ssd 2,5 inch and a m2 ssd 980 pro samsung i made the alienware a little costum
nvidia 3080 10gb 3x monitors 1 acer nitro xv3 series 240hz 2x iiyama g2730hsu windows 11

If you guys say that i can better use a old windows xp machine thats not a problem because i have the following: retro gaming pc asus p4p800 deluxe p4 ht 3.20ghz 4gb ddr1 400mhz ram and a 250gb ssd sata
amd radeon 4650 agp 1gb card and a creative audigy pci sb0090

greetings and i hope to hear from you guys Teo

Last edited by Teo97_P4; 02-21-2022 at 10:21 AM.
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  #2  
02-21-2022, 05:27 PM
mbassiouny mbassiouny is offline
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Hi and welcome

I am a little short on time to go for lengthy answer but first you might want to check this thread (the replies to OP + some of the links I posted there).

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...ieve-high.html
(you can skip the debate in last few posts on Hauppauge cards, I still have to do some more tests and get back to lollo)

Same scenario, just like you, no frame TBC, only player with TBC, heard about things on discord, seen YouTube video, whatever, forget that.

Once you read the aforementioned thread, you will find answers to your audio problem and most of your questions.

Hint: See LS' answer here in post number 8:

Quote:
TBC is not optional, the OP already knows that (without knowing why) when he saw flickers and audio sync issues, and likely more errors he didn't realize shouldn't be there. At very minimalist, use the non-TBC frame sync of an ES10/15. But it's an extreme workaround with downsides. Yes, cheap, but you get what you pay for here.
direct Link for the answer number 8 http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...html#post82216 {8}

After you read the thread, you may post exact details about your projet, nature of sources etc, to get personalized suggestions to you. Not all projects are equivalent, some "budget" setup may do fine for you in particular but not for everyone else.
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  #3  
02-21-2022, 11:16 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teo97_P4 View Post
i do want the good quality or even the best.
That means getting a standard quality workflow: VCR > TBC > capture card

Not just any VCR/TBC/card, but items specifically known for working well for VHS conversions.

So:
- JVC S-VHS VCR with line TBC >
- DataVideo/Cypress type frame TBC >
- capture card (these days, USB, exact card depends on OS)

Quote:
When i am done digitizing them i am not going to throw them out the window, i will keep my collection and also wil keep buying more, so now you know this...
Wise.

Quote:
Alright so i have the Panasonic vhs player (NV-FJ615)
how ever after doing that i got tape noise,blue screens,audio glitches and syncing problem.
Low-end deck, not suggested.

Quote:
that my vhs players are actually shitty cheap crap players.
Yep.

Quote:
So i drove literly 380 km in total to buy the JVC hr s8500 for 150 euros and i was amazed and happy with the quality this JVC gave me.
Whoa! Road trip!

Quote:
However the next problem occurred the audio sync is stil a problem. (sometimes)
Audio sync issues are almost always a dropped frames issue, and that's caused by lack of frame TBC. And not just any random "TBC" or "frame TBC", but certain models known for VHS workflows.

Quote:
this can be the elgato software problem or the capture card it self?
I did some resaerch i came to this site and i have learned alot CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG!
Possible, but not likely.
It is a terrible card, but lack of TBC is almost always the underlying issues.

Quote:
but also i need a good dvd player that has a virtual tbc and a good capture card?
No.
Specific DVD recorders, mostly ES10/15, and line TBC with non-TBC frame sync. That can work for homemade camcorder SP tapes, but not what you're doing. You need a full actual TBC. You're a video collector, like I am/was. You're going to deal with far more issues that somebody converting videos of their kids.

Quote:
is my elgato good?
No.

Quote:
but i use the elgato video captrue that costed me 99 euros and some peole here say its trash i have to admit the software is basic sometimes it lags.
Expensive items can be crappy. As is the case here. Blackmagic cards cost more than double or triple that, and are also lousy SD VHS capture cards, horrible even.

Quote:
But what i dont understand i have done hours weeks months of research and the elgato came in the best i watched alot of youtube video stating this is ''the capture card'' becasue
Most Youtubers are idiots that known as much as you do, or even less. They're rarely experts, but rather people with too much free time (and make videos). Not somebody that has decades of experience in video, worked professionally in video, etc. And with extensive experience in the consumer analog formats.

Quote:
the other cards that are like 10 50 euros are trash
Yes.

Quote:
i dont much care about paying 99 euros or 150 to better equipment
150 EUR is about $170 USD. Good budget for a good card.

Quote:
and if the elgato is the problem(i hope not) can some please tel me how i can get a good capture card that doesnt cost me a 1000 dollars/euros
See the marketplace forum of this site.

Quote:
On a site note: I use the following equipment: now i use a alienware pc with a amd ryzen 5950x 16gb ddr4 3200mhz xmp 2x 2tb ssd 2,5 inch and a m2 ssd 980 pro samsung i made the alienware a little costum
nvidia 3080 10gb 3x monitors 1 acer nitro xv3 series 240hz 2x iiyama g2730hsu windows 11
Windows 10 has been a major problem in recent years, and Win11 is even worse. The OS is not friendly to video capture.

Quote:
If you guys say that i can better use a old windows xp machine thats not a problem because i have the following: retro gaming pc asus p4p800 deluxe p4 ht 3.20ghz 4gb ddr1 400mhz ram and a 250gb ssd sata
amd radeon 4650 agp 1gb card and a creative audigy pci sb0090
That should work decently here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbassiouny View Post
Not all projects are equivalent, some "budget" setup may do fine for you in particular but not for everyone else.
Correct. And budget setups almost never work for video collectors. I tried to avoid TBCs at least 25 years ago. And I couldn't do what I wanted, nor with quality, until I upgraded. One of the best decisions that I ever made.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
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  #4  
02-22-2022, 07:16 AM
Teo97_P4 Teo97_P4 is offline
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Hello,

first of all thank you for your time to even reply to me make me happy.

i clicked on those links and i can see what you al mean now

how ever i stil have a few Questions i wil reply shortly

greetings and thx
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  #5  
02-22-2022, 08:15 AM
Teo97_P4 Teo97_P4 is offline
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Hello,

I did never think to be talking to the Lordsmurf hahahaha.

I see you on almost every post so yeah pretty cool that you do this for decades now, thanks to you and other forum members i learned a thing or two.
i am thankfull!
So my question: Do i need a panasonic dvd dmr es10/15 or do i need a tbc like DataVideo/Cypress type TBC?
besides the price do you guys have a comparison? of some footage? maybe a link? i dont trust youtube after the elgato thing, i could have saved that money for the ati 600 usb wich seems far better then my elgato.
I think and this is only what i guess the datavideo/cypress is probely the best video and the panasonic is good eneugh right?

hope to hear from you guys!

and thank you for all your time

Teo
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  #6  
02-22-2022, 10:18 AM
mbassiouny mbassiouny is offline
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In the thread I linked to in my first reply there is a link to the guide called "What is a TBC? Time Base Correction for Videotapes"
Read that

Once you do you will understand that
Quote:
So my question: Do i need a panasonic dvd dmr es10/15 or do i need a tbc like DataVideo/Cypress type TBC?
besides the price do you guys have a comparison?
This question does not really make sense, because they are not exactly same,therefore not really comparable. But there are comparisons on videohelp. ES10 is more of line TBCish effect.

One does not always replace the other. You may use both together, it depends.

Now the question of do you need or not, that depends on you/your tapes. Which is why I said in my reply specify your sources as it might help LS and other to tell you what you might need. Ideally, watch some of them before buying video gear so you can know what issues you have without TBC, that way you know what the TBC will fix. For example: If you have very violent tearing in your tapes, you might need and ES10 even if you have an internal line TBC in your VCR.

DVD recorders do have side effects, they fix some issues but may introduce others. Up to you to see if it is worth it.
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  #7  
02-23-2022, 07:02 AM
Teo97_P4 Teo97_P4 is offline
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Hello,

A little Update

Thank you Mbassiouny and Lordsmurf i know get what you mean, it al depends on my tapes wel thats good news because most my tapes dont even have a single line in them or deterioration.
I have the movie Final Destination that movie doesn't even have one tear/deterioration in the picture i only have 2 movie's that are almost done that is Bowfinger and Scream those 2 have white lines all the time even with tbc on without tbc it gets worser.
Also i bought myself a hi8 vcr from sony EV S9000E this is a different story i now have 15 hi8 tapes that are very valuable to me becsue my family and grandparants are on there some of them have good picture but others have like realy bad deterioration i looked on the internet they say this is the best machine for hi8 tapes it is far better then my camcorder also from sony CCD-TRV95E
i was wondering is this a good way to convert my hi8 tapes to digital?
i cant wait what both you guys think
i will post some pictures about my setup i cant wait to hear back from both of you i am looking forward to the tbc and capture card

very much appreciated for al your help

Teo
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  #8  
02-23-2022, 07:40 AM
mbassiouny mbassiouny is offline
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I don't really 'think" in the sense based on experience, I have tried several things of course and I know a couple of things, but mostly I relay information that I got from other knowledgeable people. I am not an expert myself. I am more like the less blind man, guiding a blinder person.

I would not phrase your situation as you "don't need" a frame TBC because VHS tapes always need some TBC(ish), correction I would phrase it as "you don't have much issues to be worth paying 2k for a TBC" but you will at least need something like the weak frame TBC in datavideo DVK devices afaik. What we are saying is that depending on your tapes you might just get away with something not so expensive without spending 2000$. I will leave further precisions on this to experts like LS. who knows the various "budget TBCs"

Do not forget, the audio out of sync you have is probably due to the lack of Frame TBC. So you still need one.

Also you elgato is still not a good card.

Quote:
this is a different story
hi8 is off topic here, if it is a different story as you say then open another thread for that story it is preferable to open a thread for each specific question. It helps for readability by future readers.

I am not well versed on Hi8, but it is analog so it follows same recipe as VHS, good source with line TBC, connected to frame TBC, Connected to good capture card.

For hi8 you need a good device with line TBC and s-video output, a list can be here
http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...-digital8.html

p.S: always use the s-video output , do not use the "yellow pin".
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