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  #21  
03-23-2022, 10:24 AM
vikinagy97 vikinagy97 is offline
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Somewhere in this forum, Lordsmurf wrote that Cyberpower UPSs are better than APCs. So which Cyberpower UPS can do the best protection?
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  #22  
03-23-2022, 10:39 AM
RobustReviews RobustReviews is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vikinagy97 View Post
Somewhere in this forum, Lordsmurf wrote that Cyberpower UPSs are better than APCs. So which Cyberpower UPS can do the best protection?
I'm not sure.

I'll wait for him to explain.
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  #23  
03-23-2022, 11:16 AM
traal traal is offline
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Make sure you get one that periodically tests the battery. My $150 model didn't, and when the power went out recently, the UPS shut itself off almost immediately because I didn't (and still don't) have the discipline to test it every month.
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  #24  
03-23-2022, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobustReviews View Post
they're no better or worse than a reasonable power-strip with surge protection
The issue is sudden loss of power during operation, made worse by the on-off-on-off type nature of power fails. Power fails are never a simple off, but a flicker and fluctuate.

A mere surge protector won't do anything. It just won't.

It's almost never a surge problem. Therefore "surge" protectors are just worthless power strips. --- Nevermind the fact that most "surge" protection is a ridiculous nothing, a puny little fuse of some kind that allows the surge before the pop. Or the surge to ground (MOV) is overloaded, or silently fails (ie, does not divert). So what good is that?

What you need is continuity of power.
Not "surge" protection.
Not nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vikinagy97 View Post
Somewhere in this forum, Lordsmurf wrote that Cyberpower UPSs are better than APCs. So which Cyberpower UPS can do the best protection?
Correct. APC has issues with modern power grids that check usage with a ping. Those pings can knock it off. This may have changed in recent times, unsure. But beyond that, it's always had more issues in general, such as noise (buzzing, not image) and longevity.

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  #25  
03-23-2022, 02:51 PM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
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The function of the typical residential/home use surge protector is to reduce the likely hood of equipment failure due to short duration a high voltage spike getting into the equipment. These surges typically come from lightning strikes. So if you live in a lightning-prone area ...

As more home appliances are computer controlled they become more sensitive to power surges and protection will reduce (not eliminate) the likely hood of a piece of gear being fried by the random passing storm. It can also help protect from over voltages caused by switching transients. They will not prevent equipment shutdown or other problems caused by short duration under voltage or voltage dips.

The typical modest cost home UPS will kick on for under voltages and loss of power, and typically have enough capacity to permit orderly shut down. The available run time is measured in minutes, not hours. Similarly home backup generators require time to come on and up to speed. For continuity of power beyond shut down time we need both, a quick starting generator and a UPS with enough capacity to allow the generator to come fully on line.

It is normal for economical UPS to feed commercial power directly to the load, and if power is lost it will switch to battery power. This switching takes some finite amount of time during which there is no power and the gear power supply has to ride it out. There are standards for computer power supplies that cover this. However, consumer entertainment gear is what ever it is.
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  #26  
03-25-2022, 06:33 AM
vikinagy97 vikinagy97 is offline
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"For continuity of power beyond shut down time we need both, a quick starting generator and a UPS with enough capacity to allow the generator to come fully on line."
So a UPS is not enough? But here in Hungary, we have to ask for permission to use a generator. Do you think we will get it just because I would like to digitize my VHS tapes?
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  #27  
03-25-2022, 06:42 AM
RobustReviews RobustReviews is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vikinagy97 View Post
"For continuity of power beyond shut down time we need both, a quick starting generator and a UPS with enough capacity to allow the generator to come fully on line."

So a UPS is not enough? But here in Hungary, we have to ask for permission to use a generator. Do you think we will get it just because I would like to digitize my VHS tapes?
We're off the reservation now buddy, it'll almost certainly be no issue plugging it directly in to the mains (I'm not going through an explanation again) but a small UPS might be a belt & braces approach if you're especially concerned.

Talk of backup generators to use a video machine is probably getting totally OTT for a domestic hobby?
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  #28  
03-25-2022, 06:54 AM
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For some sort of business? Sure, generator, why not. Assumes power not reliable.

But for home? No. Just UPS. Enough power/time to properly stop everything, shut it down safely.

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  #29  
03-25-2022, 07:44 AM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vikinagy97 View Post
So a UPS is not enough? But here in Hungary, we have to ask for permission to use a generator. Do you think we will get it just because I would like to digitize my VHS tapes?
I don't know about Hungary, but in some parts of the world getting permission depends on how much one is willing to bribe the controlling officials. In the USA the main issue is the effort to obtain building permits, required for almost any electrical, structural, or plumbing modification to a building in most cities. And of course building codes compliance.

The back-up generator would be appropriate for situations/loads that one cannot afford to drop; e.g., life safety medical equipment perhaps. And of course for the very rich folks who can afford the cost and want to avoid the effort necessary to cope with an interruption however short and recoverable. For most of us it is a nonstarter.

An acquaintance is getting a home backup generator so his wife and kids won't miss their favorite TV shows for the perhaps 2 hours a year (on the average) the power is out. A case perhaps of "having more dollars than sense."
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  #30  
03-25-2022, 08:10 AM
RobustReviews RobustReviews is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpalomaki View Post
I don't know about Hungary, but in some parts of the world getting permission depends on how much one is willing to bribe the controlling officials. In the USA the main issue is the effort to obtain building permits, required for almost any electrical, structural, or plumbing modification to a building in most cities. And of course building codes compliance.

The back-up generator would be appropriate for situations/loads that one cannot afford to drop; e.g., life safety medical equipment perhaps. And of course for the very rich folks who can afford the cost and want to avoid the effort necessary to cope with an interruption however short and recoverable. For most of us it is a nonstarter.

An acquaintance is getting a home backup generator so his wife and kids won't miss their favorite TV shows for the perhaps 2 hours a year (on the average) the power is out. A case perhaps of "having more dollars than sense."
Only electrical work permits are required here, it's complicated and generally ignored. 'Part-P' of the building regulations require that new or major alterations to circuits are notifiable work to 'building control' but realistically practice is different to dictat.

That's why I maintain my own qualifications as it saves me the hassle, I can notify without inspection to keep everything above board. Plumbing is not notifiable work here (to my knowledge) but we don't have the same fascination with plumbing North American's do famously.

Planning permission is usually a formality here, unless you're in a heritage area or looking to build a new estate of houses, basic house alterations are usually tolerated with just a bit of annoyance and some expensive paperwork.

Generators do not start instantaneously, I have worked with them ('proper ones') during my time in 'big pharma'; to stand any chance of working they need a lot of maintenance and load testing to be viable when needed. We used to hire in dummy loads (delivered on 40ft lorries) to load down the generator sets a couple of times a year to give them a good workout. Even then on the loss of power at least one of the six would refuse to go online. That site also had CHP so could switch to gas for (very expensive) power during the loss of utility service.

But no generator starts and goes online immediately, they need to be part of a strategy, they're not a simple install and forget solution. If loss of supply continuity can be accepted it's feasible, but they need balancing with UPS, CHP or no doubt other strategies.

But a generator, no matter how you play it will take time to come online, up to a few minutes for a huge great big diesel generator set, it's an engine after all.
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  #31  
03-28-2022, 08:46 AM
vikinagy97 vikinagy97 is offline
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Do you recommend this UPS? https://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP...86894b531&th=1
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