Quantcast VHS to DVD, Going crazy, running out of time - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
12-15-2009, 05:51 AM
scameron scameron is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
so, i embarked on this adventure with the thought this would be an exceptional gift for my family members for Christmas. being that i am an engineer and like to "figure things" out, i thought why not try. well, i have read and read and read some more. now i don't know if i am confused or lost completely.

ok, my system is about 6 years old, but pretty good. (pent 4, 2.4 ghz, 1 GB memory). i bought a 1TB external hard drive USB. i have 14 VHS tapes i want to transfer. i have a decent VCR. i don't have the money for a TBC device. i wanted to use a capture card, don't have a clue what to buy. seems the USB capture devices suck a lot of power from the CPU. i know that external hard drive does. maybe i am looking at this in way too much depth. i just want to transfer uncompressed or lightly-compressed "lossless" AVI. i want to edit them later. budget is $100 to maybe $150. maybe that is unrealistic.

also, can i buy a firewire card for that hard drive?
Reply With Quote
Someday, 12:01 PM
admin's Avatar
Ads / Sponsors
 
Join Date: ∞
Posts: 42
Thanks: ∞
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
  #2  
12-15-2009, 06:18 AM
admin's Avatar
admin admin is offline
Site Staff | Web Development
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,368
Thanked 586 Times in 438 Posts
Yep, that's the thing with digital photo, web design and video. But as you're starting to figure out, mere knowledge of computers is not enough to truly master these visual arts, nor the voodoo-like tech that goes with it. (It works out the other way, too! All us long-time photo/design/video folks were forced to become computer techs!)

So let's see how I can help you out here...

The quality of your video starts with the VCR. So what is the brand/model of this decent VCR you have? Let's see if there is any room for improvement there.

A TBC is very often a necessary evil, but you may be lucky enough to be able to avoid one. Not likely, but possible.

Most capture devices use resources, especially the CPU. Even the so-called "hardware chipsets" still need to access some CPU power for other tasks. USB devices run through the CPU, which does cause some overhead. On that older P4 2.4Ghz, you'll notice the drag on the system. On newer dual-core and quad-core systems, it's transparent.

In my experience, USB hard drives are not fast enough to capture with, especially when there is CPU bottlenecking on the older single-core systems. Again, maybe you'll be lucky, and have no issues, but it's not likely.

The USB2 capture devices range in quality. I have cheap Tevion capture card from Aldi (the budget grocery store) that captures video beautifully through VirtualDub, right to HuffYUV lossless compressed AVI. On the other hand, I've tested out a number of Dazzle and Pinnacle USB devices, often wanting to beat it to death with a sledge hammer.

Firewire is a sustained data rate, and there is minimal to zero overhead on the CPU. If your external drive has a Firewire connection, then you can use a Firewire card. Even better would be eSATA, if that's an option.

I think avoiding USB2 altogether on this older system would be ideal. What about an internal PCI or AGP card?

Also, is your audio card part of the motherboard, or do you have a separate audio card in the system? With more modern computers, it's not a big issue. But those older systems, from the era yours is from, had more problems with a/v sync on integrated motherboard audio.

I'm answering you on a Pentium 4 2.8GHz system, that captures with an ATI All In Wonder Radeon AGP card, to an internal 400GB hard drive (SATA drive using a SATA>IDE converter adapter). So computers this age are fine, if done right.

Lossless HuffYUV AVI is about 35-40GB/hour, so it's not like you'd need a ton of space for a 2-hour tape. You can move files off with an overnight cut/paste, to a larger external drive, if needed.

Give those things some thoughts, and then get back to me.

Also consider upgrading to Premium Member status, to get long-term one-on-one detailed help with your project. It costs less than a book or a couple of magazines, but will surely be far more helpful. Thanks.

- Did this site help you? Then upgrade to Premium Member and show your support!
- Also: Like Us on Facebook for special DVD/Blu-ray news and deals!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
12-15-2009, 07:00 AM
scameron scameron is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
i am checking with WD about hooking the hard drive to firewire. not sure if eSATA would work with my set. to be honest i am not real familiar with eSATA. i have a 1TB WD My Book Essential. i have 40GB left on my internal.

vcr is nothing special. i think it is a samsung 4head. don't know model number.

i would like to use a PCI or AGP card. i also think this would be my best bet with my set up. don't know what to purchase.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
12-15-2009, 07:22 AM
scameron scameron is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
the one year upgrade looks best for me. notice it renews automatically, can this be canceled before renewal?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
12-15-2009, 08:01 AM
admin's Avatar
admin admin is offline
Site Staff | Web Development
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,368
Thanked 586 Times in 438 Posts
Yes, subscriptions can be ended early or set to non-renewing from inside Paypal, not an issue.

Will have more for you soon on the VCR, capture card, etc.

- Did this site help you? Then upgrade to Premium Member and show your support!
- Also: Like Us on Facebook for special DVD/Blu-ray news and deals!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
12-15-2009, 08:02 PM
admin's Avatar
admin admin is offline
Site Staff | Web Development
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,368
Thanked 586 Times in 438 Posts
That hard drive appears to be USB2 only. Look at the connectors available on back. Is there more than the one USB slot on it? Look at the wikipedia article on IEEE1394 (Firewire) and see if you have the Firewire symbol or a connector slot as shown there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_1394_interface

For the internal capture cards, I would suggest looking for some older cards. This means they are no sold new in stores, you'll be buying refurb/used/pre-owned. I buy and sell used gear all the time, it works fine.

NOTE: I even have a couple of cards available for sale, if you're interested -- just haven't listed them yet. There's a decent PCI card here that does uncompressed or lossless AVI captures, no problems. I want $25 for it, very very cheap compared to what I paid brand new several years ago. Just don't use it or need it anymore.

The VCR could be better, but the Samsung consumer VHS VCRs decks tended to be better than average. You won't be getting the best quality off the VHS tapes -- not like a high-end S-VHS deck would -- but it'll look similar to what you saw on TV, both in signal quality and noise levels.

NOTE: Not to sound like a used car salesman, but I have a low-end S-VHS VCR that would likely look better than the Samsung VHS VCR being used. Looking for $65 on that one. I just happen to have some extra items here, was going to list on the site after Christmas. If you wanted them now, can do it.

I don't know that getting this project done before Christmas is a realistic deadline. I have about 5 tapes that I'm working on here too, and it's going to be a close call to get it restored, converted and sent off (and received) by Dec 25.

The nature of video in 2009/2010 is craptastic compared to what it was even just 3-4 years ago. When you walk into a store now, you have maybe 3-4 choices on what to buy -- all of them shades of garbage. The best items are gone from walk-in stores, sold new online-only, or sold used/pre-owned/refurb online.

For a fast project, buying only what can be found in a walk-in store, would be a DVD recorder from Walmart (the Sony model). HOw well that would work, again, is a gamble -- a TBC may still be required, as DVD recorders are awful touchy about anti-copy. Anti-copy (Macrovision, for example) is an artificial video error, and the devices often confuse real video errors for the fake ones. You'll often end up with a error message on screen, that reads something along the lines of "Sorry, we cannot record this copy protected video."

- Did this site help you? Then upgrade to Premium Member and show your support!
- Also: Like Us on Facebook for special DVD/Blu-ray news and deals!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
12-15-2009, 09:09 PM
scameron scameron is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
yeah, i'm stuck with the USB hard drive connection. should have research that one a little more.

what brand PCI cards should i be looking for? what make and model card do you have for sale? i'm interested. i may also be interested in the VCR. what make and model is it?

i've almost settled on the fact that i will not be done by Christmas. which is fine, but disappointing. i'll just be happy to have my tapes preserved.

thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
12-15-2009, 09:46 PM
admin's Avatar
admin admin is offline
Site Staff | Web Development
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,368
Thanked 586 Times in 438 Posts
The brand of card isn't really that important. What you want to instead look for are card chipsets and compatibility with VirtualDub or iuVCR as your capturing programs.

What I have here is an AVerMedia PCI card, circa 2004 or so, decent card for uncompressed AVI or HuffYUV capture. Not for anything else, just the uncomp./lossless AVI.

The VCR is a JVC HR-S3800U, and it's pretty much in like-new condition. While it lacks the TBC+DNR from the high-end VHS series, it does have several useful image filters, and the ability to switch to the linear track if the tape's HiFi track is damaged (buzzing in audio).

Neither of these are the "ideal" items to have, but it doesn't sound like you have the budget for those anyway. This is the next best alternative -- an improvement for an affordable cost, $100 range.

- Did this site help you? Then upgrade to Premium Member and show your support!
- Also: Like Us on Facebook for special DVD/Blu-ray news and deals!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
01-13-2010, 01:46 PM
scameron scameron is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
well i tried it. take a look. i lost a little quality converting to mpeg 2 i believe, but i am somewhat satisfied. this video was filmed March 28, 1990. i don't know what i could do to improve. i captured with VirtualDub and used HuffYUV lossless codec. i then used corel virtual studio to convert to mpeg 2. i didn't filter anything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSvzfHg9UTc
Reply With Quote
  #10  
01-15-2010, 01:41 PM
admin's Avatar
admin admin is offline
Site Staff | Web Development
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,368
Thanked 586 Times in 438 Posts
Does this card work well using this guide? See http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/vid...virtualdub.htm -- I believe that guide was created using that exact model card, but it's been a while. It sounds like you used VirtualDub just fine from the above post. Very nice.

The deinterlacing method used on that Youtube clip appears to be really harsh. A better deinterlacer would be done inside VirtualDub 1.9 and using the built-in yadif method, or using the deinterlace area-based filter. You should also CROP the video for web streams -- remove about 8 pixels from, 8 from bottom, 12-16 from left, and 12-16 from right. Your overscan is showing, there's noise in the edges of your Youtube video.

Get a pre-loaded VirtualDub here: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/show...-pre-1727.html

The video looks fairly clean, I don't easily detect any chroma noise. That's a plus. What you have there is better than average. For having not filtered anything, the video is in good condition, if the Youtube vid is any indication of your full-screen TV viewing.

I'd need to see some full-screen screenshots, or some video clips, to give further suggestions. And from the full-quality video, not the Youtube version. In VirtualDub, load a video, then go to Video > Copy Source Frame to Clipboard. Afterwards paste it into image software, be it Photshop, Microsoft Paint, or something else. Save as JPEG. Post to this forum as shown here: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/show...ages-1529.html

Turn off "onscreen display" on the JVC VCR, it blinks "Video Calibration" on screen sometimes. The VCR is definitely helping to clean up the image, it's better than a standard VCR.

What settings are you using for MPEG conversion? Can you customize bitrate, resolution, etc? What version are you using? (I can load a demo, look at it myself.) I've not used VideoStudio since it was a Ulead product.

If the Corel software is too limited, consider the $37 TMPGenc Plus from http://edge.affiliateshop.com/public...7389&BID=12418 and use the guide from http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/video/convert-tmpg.htm

- Did this site help you? Then upgrade to Premium Member and show your support!
- Also: Like Us on Facebook for special DVD/Blu-ray news and deals!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
01-15-2010, 03:04 PM
scameron scameron is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
i am using corel videostudio 12. don't know a lot about the corel software yet. i haven't played around if it enough.

does this image show enough or does it have to be bigger. i followed what you explained, but it was a full screen shot. at least i don't think. anyways attached...

Talent.jpg


Reply With Quote
  #12  
01-15-2010, 03:11 PM
scameron scameron is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
i can upload the avi file to my hotmail account and allow access.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
01-15-2010, 03:45 PM
scameron scameron is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
well, i guess not. i am limited to 50mb per file.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
01-15-2010, 04:09 PM
admin's Avatar
admin admin is offline
Site Staff | Web Development
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,368
Thanked 586 Times in 438 Posts
What is the resolution of your video?

Can you open it in Gspot and give me a full rundown of the specs? An explanation of Gspot is currently at this page -- http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/video/capture-understand-sources.htm -- about halfway down. (It will get a dedicated page in the near future.)

You can just take a screen shot of it, if you want. (Hit ALT+PRTSCRN on the keyboard, while Gspot is the "active window" on top, then paste image into graphics software, save as JPEG.)

For sharing larger files, consider these: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/showthread.php/need-share-large-1834.html

If that video image above is the full sized video, that might be part of your issue -- it's REALLY small, low resolution.

- Did this site help you? Then upgrade to Premium Member and show your support!
- Also: Like Us on Facebook for special DVD/Blu-ray news and deals!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
01-16-2010, 09:28 AM
scameron scameron is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
screen shot attached. yeah resolution is low. also, will upping the Frms/sec make much difference?

Screen Shot.jpg


Reply With Quote
  #16  
01-19-2010, 07:38 PM
admin's Avatar
admin admin is offline
Site Staff | Web Development
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,368
Thanked 586 Times in 438 Posts
No, NTSC video (North America, Japan, few other places) is 29.97 frames per second.

NTSCfilm is 23.976, but you're not dealing with NTSCfilm.

PAL is 25fps, with is Europe, Australia -- most of the world, actually.

Are you able to increase the resolution of the video, using the VirtualDub guide? Or the iuVCR guide? Also check out some of the site guides on video capturing: http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/vid...rd-capture.htm

You really need to capture interlaced video at 352x480 or 720x480, to keep all the quality found on the tape. The 320x240 video is worse than a tape -- not a good thing.

- Did this site help you? Then upgrade to Premium Member and show your support!
- Also: Like Us on Facebook for special DVD/Blu-ray news and deals!
Reply With Quote
Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Done with wasting my time trying to capture VHS with a low budget VCR! jrnyhead Capture, Record, Transfer 13 02-14-2012 04:44 PM
Firefox already running? admin Computers 0 06-06-2009 01:23 AM
Blu-ray player $140 limited time only admin Videography: Cameras, TVs and Players 0 05-08-2009 04:55 PM
Recording time on DVD-R? genebender Blank Media 1 02-08-2009 12:14 PM
Menu-play time wigam Author, Make Menus, Slideshows, Burn 2 02-22-2006 06:43 AM

Thread Tools



 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:54 AM