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  #1  
01-18-2010, 05:19 PM
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how about the JVC HR-S8007UM?
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  #2  
01-19-2010, 04:43 PM
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Information on this model is limited. That has to be a 1980s model. I can't even find images of it, and most of the Internet is just junk sites trying to sell you a service manual for it. I see a few people claiming to have one, but the description ranges from VHS to Super VHS, 4 hears to 8 heads. Those people don't even know what they have.

I wouldn't pay more than $50 for it. Again -- my limit for gambling.

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  #3  
01-19-2010, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by admin View Post
Information on this model is limited. That has to be a 1980s model. I can't even find images of it, and most of the Internet is just junk sites trying to sell you a service manual for it. I see a few people claiming to have one, but the description ranges from VHS to Super VHS, 4 hears to 8 heads. Those people don't even know what they have.

I wouldn't pay more than $50 for it. Again -- my limit for gambling.
Isn't that the truth!!!

I talked with the owner and he said it was an overseas model with the 2 mb buffer/tbc and was switchable from NTSC to PAL which might come in handy...maybe, and thought it to be a nice machine...I can let you know if you like as I took a chance on it.
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  #4  
01-19-2010, 07:03 PM
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Yeah, that sounds really tempting. I'd probably jump on it, for the right price.

Try to get a photo of the unit, if you would. A good clean image, that is large enough that yo can read the buttons on the VCR, maybe the remote if available. If he can photo the screen menus (either off TV, or by doing screencaps from a signal fed into a computer) -- go for it. I don't really like buying video gear without knowing what it looks like.

Or more important, knowing if the features REALLY are the ones the current owner thinks it has. You wouldn't believe the number of people who think all JVC S-VHS VCRs have TBCs just because it's a Super VHS JVC. Clearly, not true. Some people even think the presence of an s-video connection on a VCR makes it "S-VHS" -- also not at all true, some VHS VCRs have svideo, too.

Always something to worry about, when buying online. Just do your due diligence in research, and you should be fine!

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  #5  
01-19-2010, 07:18 PM
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I go with my gut alot, I purchased the unit, there is a pic on line he posted, but it's not real big.

This was his description...Sounded pretty good.

The JVC HR-8007UM is the same as the HR-S7900 but silver in color. It takes Super VHS picture quality to the next level with 2MB Digi Pure System & 19 Micron Heads. "ET" mode allows S-VHS recordings with economical VHS tape. For powerful editing, JVC includes flying erase head, audio dub, and a front S-Video input. Plug n' Play offers easy setup & VCR Plus w/ Cable Eye makes timer recording simple too. A/V Compu Link provides one-touch operation with matching JVC components.
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  #6  
01-19-2010, 07:32 PM
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If that is really a 7900 NTSC+PAL, with DNR+TBC, then you may have a great unit. Remember to test it with a replaceable tape. An out-of-alignment unit will feather or "eat" your tapes. If it turns out to have any troubles, Jots Electronics in Arlington, Texas is where I'd send it for service. Not some random "local guy". Don't bother with JVC, for VCRs. They'll quote a ridiculous price, or just refuse to service it. (JVC is good for DVD recorder service/repairs, however.)

I learned the hard way -- about 13 years ago -- to test JVC VCRs with unimportant tapes, not the rare ones. Took me 3 years to track down another tape! At least it was a commercial release instead of homeshot video (wedding, etc). Otherwise I'd have been in trouble.

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  #7  
01-19-2010, 07:41 PM
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Thanks for great advice!
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  #8  
01-21-2010, 11:11 AM
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Follow up...
Got the unit, I can't tell if this has the TBC/NR the seller said, doesn't look like it to me but I have a 3800 and the settings are different, on this unit it has...

B.E.S.T. (Biconditional Equalized Signal Tracking)
Picture control ie. Auto, Edit, Soft and Sharp
Auto Timer
Superimpose
Auto SP
Video stabilizer
Blue back
2nd Audio
Audio monitor
S-VHS mode
AV compu-link
Front Aux imput (gold plated connectors)
Rear Aux imput

Would this be a proconsumer model and good enough to do vhs to DVD transfers? Or would I still need a TBC?

Thanks!!
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  #9  
01-21-2010, 11:30 AM
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Unless there is an obvious button on the unit (NTSC style), or an obvious setting in the main menu (PAL style), then it has no TBC.

Lacking a TBC would also make it more of a consumer item, than a pro one. Maybe a really, really good consumer item, but that;s it. For the best conversion, you really need the TBC. It's the different between a $1 hamburger and fine-cut steak -- not all beef is the same. Nor VCRs.

B.E.S.T. is the PAL equivalent to "calibration" on the NTSC models. It's often turned off on my deck.

This isn't a bad deck necessarily -- those 3800 units are a good bump in quality over standard Walmart / Best Buy consumer VHS VCRs! I still use one from time to time, for special purposes, few times per year at most. But no, it's not the best one, it's not ideal. Good, not great/awesome/etc.

Your seller was one of the goobers mentioned above, assumed that TBC=SVHS. Another person who didn't do any research.

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  #10  
01-21-2010, 11:50 AM
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Thanks...
I like to learn...

He said it was PAL-NTSC switchable, I don't see this either, the specs say...Signal system: NTSC-type color signal and EIA monochrome signal, 525 lines/60 fields.

Power requirements: AC 110V-220V~, 50/60 Hz

I assume that means anywhere in that range so it should be ok here?

One last thing, you mentioned the 3800 series, what is the difference between the 3800 and 3900?...I have a 3900, I hope this 8007 is better.
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  #11  
01-21-2010, 12:23 PM
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Well, if it has B.E.S.T., then it's probably at very least PAL. You'd hav eto try an NTSC tape to see if it does NTSC.

Power requirement don't dictate PAL/NTSC. My PAL-only JVC HR-S7965EK, for example, is 110-220V~50-60Hz. That's just telling you what electrical systems the unit can draw power from.

Just use a plug-shape adapter, if needed. If it does NOT need a plug shape adapter, then it may very well be an NTSC native PAL-capable multi-format machine. At least it would logically seem to be so.

The 3800 is an older model, from around 1998-1999. It was really the last sub-pro machine to be any good. The 3900 was more limited in age and production (few were ever sold that I saw), but stories were never good on it. Picture was fine, but the tape input and transport was subpar compared against 3600/3800 and 4600/4800. The 2911 was a piece of crap. As they say (in regard to the 3900), "YMMV" (your mileage may vary). Your unit may be fine.

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  #12  
01-21-2010, 02:37 PM
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So I still need a TBC/ would one in a JVC or a standalone be better?
I have some old material on dvd that could use a cleaning up and I have used my vidicraft detailer and it does make a difference, would a TBC help dvd-dvd?
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  #13  
01-21-2010, 02:48 PM
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Read the text (quoted below) from this post: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/show...89&postcount=3

Quote:
A TBC is a timebase corrector. By the most basic definition, video is input into a buffer, and then it is corrected before being output again.

However, the term "TBC" is often used so loosely, that it seems any type of "correction" can apply. There is no universal or standardized definition, so product makers can get away with calling anything a TBC. Sometimes I wonder if my toaster has a TBC.

The best way to define a TBC is by empircal analysis of devices that exist, and claim to have a TBC inside, and analyzing what they do.

Standalone Full-Frame TBC:

A good recent-era standalone TBC will
  • reduce visual on-screen image jitter (up/down image bounce)
  • overwrite "dirty" signal areas with new clean ones --- these areas often used by anti-copy, which of course is an artificial video error -- this is not going to visually improve the signal, it would only prevent image quality issues caused by false detection of anti-copy, such as Macrovision
  • and provide a steady signal that prevents dropped frames on capture cards, or pre-mature recording stop on DVD recorders
A standalone TBC will generally not clean up visual image quality, such as removing chroma noise or suppressing visual distortions (excluding jitter)

Good standalone TBCs include
  • the AVToolbox AVT-8710 aka Cypress CTB-100,
  • DataVideo TBC-1000, and others in the series

S-VHS VCR Line TBC:

Unlike the standalone TBC, this one will
  • NOT give a continual clean signal out from the VCR
  • NOT remove anti-copy signals, by replacing those often-dirty areas with new clean data
  • NOT help much with jitter -- in fact it can sometimes increase the amount of jitter
What it will do, however, is clean the visual quality, by:
  • removing or reducing chroma noise (the red/blue colored mist found in all VHS tape formats)
  • removing geometric distortions from the image, such as the wiggling appearance of older video, as if viewed through a rippling pond or bathtub
Very often VCR TBCs are merged with embedded noise reduction circuits, which use the power of the TBC to further suppress or remove grain and prevent color bleeding

The quality of the TBC really depends on the model and line/series of the deck. In many cases, the oldest "professional" VCRs (used in studios and hospitals) are worthless crap, as compared to late 90s and early 2000s professional and prosumer models that work much better.


DVD Recorder "TBC":

This is where we start to enter the land of "it's a TBC because we wrote it on the box". In many cases, the "TBC" is nothing more than a basic frame sychronizer, or circuitry that provides a similar function.

These tend to only be good at one thing: removing "flagging" or "tearing" that can sometimes be seen on the top of a VHS signal, a visual distortion on screen. You'll have to disable the VCR TBC and often remove the standalone TBC, to get benefit of this feature, as needed.

NOTE: These DVD recorders often have bad capture/recording quality, unfortunately, so you'll want to use it in "passthrough" mode. This means you feed a signal into the DVD recorder, and then output it to a better capture device further on. It is not used for recording. You can often re-add the standalone TBC after the DVD recorder, because it's still not necessarily the best analog signal yet.

The Panasonic "ES" series from 2005-2006 is known for this (ES10, ES15, etc).

DVD recorder "TBCs" will do next to nothing (or outright nothing) in terms of visual OR signal cleaning. Some of the DVD recorders do have digital NR, but it can be overly strong. The ES10, for example, over-processes the video with NR engaged, causing temporal blurring and posterizing/banding the video (compressed color palette).


DV Converter Box "TBC":

Even worse than the DVD recorders, these TBCs generally don't do squat.
  • In some cases, these will act like the DVD recorder frame synchonizers, very mildly correcting the input signal stability, just good enough to be captured without dropped frames.
  • In other cases, it does nothing.

Conclusion...


The best advice is to stack a good S-VHS VCR with a TBC with a standalone TBC, to take care of both image/visual AND signal quality. If you use a DVD recorder or DV box further down the line, so what -- forget it has a TBC. Or rather, forget "TBC" was written on the box.
For an external TBC, the AVT-8170 from B&H is highly suggested (and B&H has the best price on it, about $215-225 shipped.)


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  #14  
01-21-2010, 04:14 PM
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I have read that post/reply already, I was wondering which would be better for my needs, which are quite a few old vhs tapes and a few old vhs recordings that have been transfered to dvd (the vhs tapes are not mine and all I have is the dvd copies to work with) and a few camcorder tapes to transfer to dvd, I have the vidicraft detailer to work with and my funds will only permit so much, I can find a JVC with TBC for ~$100-$150 it appears, I have my JVC 3900, still works and plays well and the 8007UM that I was told had a TBC but doesn't, I would like to have both vcr/tbc and standalone 8170, but can't do both right now, maybe later, so what would be my best bet now? Which should I get first and help most, I would think the 8170 but I am brand new at this.
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  #15  
01-21-2010, 04:21 PM
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Well, if you get the external TBC, with a "good enough" VCR, then you'll just have "good enough" quality video, and not the best that is possible.

On the other hand, if you get the ideal quality VCR, but have false macrovision/anti-copy detection, then you'll have a clean quality video that you can't actually record until you get the 8710.

So you're between a rock and a hard place.

At least the "good enough" VCR lets you make some DVDs. It's the lesser of evils. I would do that.

In fact, I have done that. And I got along fine. I saved the worst tapes for later. It took a while to both finish the easier projects and set aside enough money for the extra TBC. But eventually, it all worked out. I bought the TBC right when I was set to start working on the rougher tapes.

So get the TBC: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...3167/KBID/4166

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  #16  
01-21-2010, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by admin View Post
So you're between a rock and a hard place.
...Story of my life....

I knew I joined the right forum...

The 8710 looks to have enhancement setting (is this a proc/amp?) so does it do both stabilize and enhance and remove macrovision and like?
Do the JVC vcr's that do have a TBC remove macro also or do you only get it in a stand alone?
And what about the TBC I think it was you were selling?
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  #17  
01-21-2010, 09:00 PM
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As mentioned in other places on the forum, the proc amp is very weak. It covers maybe 5-10% of the range a full proc amp usually does. It's good if you only need minor adjustments. But other times, it's little more than a tease and aggravation.

This has already been discussed a few times in related AVT-8710 threads, like this one: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/show...-tbc-1496.html

It removes signal instabilities, yes, and that would include both authentic/real AND fake/artificial errors (and therefore includes Macrovision encoding).

Again, refer to the long quoted piece a few posts up. VCR TBCs won't remove anti-copy, no.

The TBC I have available is pending right now, transaction currently under way (hope to have it completed by end of month -- project schedule is causing delays).

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  #18  
01-22-2010, 12:13 AM
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Thanks...you have been a world of help and info!
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01-22-2010, 11:41 AM
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Still reading, reading and reading and trying to decide

Out of probably 50 vhs tapes maybe 7 might have some form of macrovision the rest are football games, tv movies/specials, home movies, the #1 error/enhancement that need to be cleaned up is the soft/blurry picture recorded in ep mode, chroma noise would be #2 and not as bad.

So my choices as I see this is...

1) Play vhs on my 19 micron, 6 head (on front of vcr) HR-S8007UM which does play nice so it must be NTSC, purchase a AVT 8710, (~$230) use s-video 4 prong and copy to dvd.

2) Purchase a JVC w/TBC (~$150) play vhs and use composite A/V to my vidicraft enhancer/detailer (maybe purchase vidicraft proc/amp ~$50 IF I need this with the detailer?) and copy to dvd.

Which would you choose?
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  #20  
01-24-2010, 11:40 PM
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1. This sounds fine. TBC from http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...3167/KBID/4166

2. The picture quality may be better on some of the tapes (or maybe not!?)...
.... but without a full external TBC, you may run into problems where you can't transfer.

I think #1 is the only real choice here.

I have a new SR-V10U + JVC DR-M100 setup that I can't use yet, because I still don't have a TBC for it. Sure, picture is nice, great DVD recorder, but there is false anti-copy detected, and the video won't copy. The S-VHS-ET tapes that I tested on the setup won't play with just a "Macrovision remover" in the chain either, there are sync errors on the tapes (real signal errors) -- it's needs the full-frame external TBC/frame sync (AVT-8710). It's just not in the budget, however -- must wait a little longer.

I have $400+ in equipment collecting dust, until the TBC can be bought. Don't put yourself in that position.

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