Quantcast 8mm transfer to DVD project Rookie needs advice - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
04-10-2010, 09:52 PM
Riff_Raff Riff_Raff is offline
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Hello All,

lots of good info here Thank you for this great website
I've been reading up on as much as I can. their appear to be many options for my situation. I just have a few quick questions regarding my 20 year long ongoing Classic Rock Band Documentary.

My major concern is transferring the 8mm tapes I have from my Sony Camcorder to the best format possible to burn on DVD.
I have two older Gaming rigs as options to use for the process a 2.4ghz and a 3.4ghz both have AGP and XP pro and enough space on the Hardrives for any project.

I'm really hoping to find my best options possible within a 3 digit price range
From what I've gathered so far I'm thinking that I should start off with a ATI Technologies 100-714116 All-In-Wonder 9600-128MB DDR AGP 8x Graphics Card
for the tranafer to PC for editing. I assume this card has the correct inputs to jack in the 8mm Camcorder.

Their are so many different softwares its hard to decide.
I kind of had my eye on the Sony Vegas Movie Studio 9 Platinum Pro Pack this one isn't real pricey but seems to have alot of bells and whistles.
although I am more concerned with the best possible visual quality.
I've seen the Adobe Premiere Pro mentioned a few times but I'm still not sure which one will serve me best.

Also I have quite a few VHS tapes that I need to transfer to DVD aswell
Band videos and Family and I'm hoping both these items can handle both
any advise would be greatly appreciated

Thanks again for this excellent website
~S~
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  #2  
04-11-2010, 05:19 AM
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For truly "best" archival grade quality, especially for something you plan to edit extensively, I highly suggest lossless HuffYUV AVI or uncompressed YUV AVI files. The ATI All In Wonder AGP Radeon cards can do this, using ATI MMC software. VirtualDub can work too, but I prefer ATI MMC for all ATI AIW card use, on those classic cards.

Given that 8mm is a standard definition format, and good standard definition capture card will work, and the ATI All In Wonder is a good card.

The "9600" designation only refers to the graphics portion of the card, that card has a Theatre chipset on all 7000, 8000 and 9000 series cards. The Theatre 100 (Rage Theatre) is on 7000-8000 cards, while the Theatre 200 is on the 9000 series cards. In terms of quality, the Theatre chipsets are basically identical, especially with non-MPEG recordings.

These cards do NOT have direct input, the purple break-out box is required to input analog video. You'll find most eBay auction and other second-hand markets most often lack this supremely important wire! Output wires are needed for analog export, although few people need this.

If you're interested, I have several ATI AIW cards available, complete with purple dongle, and software on DVD. Cards are pulled from working systems, known to work! (None of this "untested" BS you'll find at auctions.)

Adobe Premiere vs Vegas is purely a choice thing, mostly between the user interface. Both programs have demos that you can download.
My preference is for Premiere, because it's very similar to Photoshop and InDesign in terms of tool names, layout, etc. I've been using it for close to 10 years, too.

The big issue with VHS and 8mm tapes is not just a capture card, but also the playback VCR (or camera), timebase correction (TBC), and other secondary filter devices (audio mixers, detailers/enhancers/res boosters, proc amps, etc). A noisy signal into a computer will yield more noisy DVDs, because of how compression works.

Another benefit of those ATI AIW cards is VideoSoap, which can help improve captures on the front-end, although I generally still suggest taking care of that via filtering during a pre-editing restoration phase, or the editing phase itself.

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  #3  
04-11-2010, 05:20 AM
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Where to buy Adobe Premiere Pro or Sony Vegas Movie Studio Pro:

Windows
- Home / Consumer / Small BusinessWindows- Professional
Mac OS X- Home / Consumer / Small BusinessMac OS X- ProfessionalNot in USA? No problem. Look up the product you want at the links below:
Download versions? No problem. Look up the product you want at the links below:

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  #4  
04-11-2010, 11:17 AM
Riff_Raff Riff_Raff is offline
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Thank you for the fast replies guys ...I see a donation fourthcoming

Quote:
If you're interested, I have several ATI AIW cards available, complete with purple dongle, and software on DVD. Cards are pulled from working systems, known to work! (None of this "untested" BS you'll find at auctions.)
I am very interested. if the price is right. start packing up the best AIW with a purple dongle you have and I'll take it
Just tell me where to paypal the $ ...

Which version of Adobe Premiere Elements do you think I really need
I see their is quite a difference in price between these two
Adobe Premiere Elements ~$80+
Adobe Premiere CS3 or CS4 ~ $550+
I'm hoping I can still get the job done and save about $470 on this maybe?

any other advice you have would be greatly appreciated
this little project has been along time coming ...and I'm starting to get pretty Amped about it again

Thanks so much
~S~
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  #5  
04-19-2010, 08:15 PM
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I've set aside a card for you, and will private message (PM) you the details here shortly.

What sort of "editing" are you looking to do? Basic cuts of unwanted footage, or slightly more advanced work? For example, something that involves transitions, mixing in photos, or other documentary-style editing (Ken Burns effect, and others).

Sorry this wasn't replied to quicker, missed a few posts last week.

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  #6  
04-19-2010, 08:23 PM
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Thanks for the reply

Yes I would most likely want to do more advanced editing.

I'm curiousas to which AIW cards you have available
as far as bits and memory.

Hope to hear from you again soon
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  #7  
04-25-2010, 07:41 PM
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I donated to the site today
I'm hoping someone can tell me if this would be a good capture card for my needs
256MB ATI All-in-Wonder 2006 Edition Radeon 9600 AGP

Thank You
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  #8  
04-25-2010, 11:27 PM
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I would personally avoid that exact ATI card. The "2006 edition" was one of the last cards made (the last card made?) in the series, and it would only work with a limited number of AGP slots. It was limited to the latter 4x/8x gen slots, and it was known to have install problems. I'm also not sure which versions of ATI MMC it would or would not work with -- there's a chance it would only function with some of the latter 9.x series versions, which are crippled somewhere around version 9.1; v9.02 is last one I'd suggest.

Maybe not the answer you were hoping for, but it's the honest one.

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  #9  
05-16-2010, 05:35 PM
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Thanks for the help Kp,

Do you think this card would be a better choice ?

128MB ATI All-in-Wonder Radeon 9600XT Graphics Adapter AGP 8x
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  #10  
05-19-2010, 01:31 AM
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All of those old ATI All In Wonder video capture cards are the same, in terms of their video capturing abilities. I refer specifically to the AGP slot "Radeon" sub-brand named cards from ATI Technologies.

Specifically, those included the 128 Pro, 7000, 7200, 7500, 8500, 8500DV, 9000, 9200, 9600, 9600XT, 9800, 2006 SE, and probably a few others. To make matters confusing, the cards were not released in any specific order. The 9800 card, for example, came out before some of the "earlier" 9000 cards (numerically speaking). I don't recall the exact order after all these years, but I think the 9200 and 9600 came out after the 9800.

And then some of those very last cards (like that 2006 SE card) were very picky about the AGP slots, and what drivers/software were compatible with the card. It got worse as time progressed, instead of better. Many latter-generation drivers and ATI MMC versions took away features, rather than improve quality, adding features, or improving the user experience. This is why the "older" cards are suggested (7000-9800 models), in combination with "older" (off the disc) drivers, using ATI Multimedia Center (ATI MMC) version 8.7, 8.8, 8.9, or anything up to 9.02.

There were only two video chipsets on those ATI AIW cards of that era: Rage Theatre (100) and Theatre 200. The chipsets essentially have the same quality, and both are hardware-assisted MPEG encoding (hardware + software/CPU), as well as software AVI.

All of those models like "9600" mostly designate the graphics chipset model, and has no bearing on the video in any way. As years went by, I read myths online stating that 9000 series cards would give a better experience in Vegas/Premiere/NLEs, but that was just random baseless guessing on the part of forum members online. The graphics GPU doesn't offload the rendering from the CPU/RAM, in an NLE, except in cases where using an NLE card (which the ATI isn't). The people saying these things had upgraded a whole computer, and gave credit to the 9000 card instead of their new RAM/CPU/motherboard/etc. A silly, but unfortunately too-common, mistake.

The amount of RAM on a card was again related to the graphics chipset. The 32MB cards act the same as the 512MB cards, in terms of video, be it capturing or NLE work.

The only reason anybody bought those 128-512MB cards was for video games. But at this late date, modern 2009-2010 games generally have minimum/ideal requirements that far exceed even the best ATI All In Wonder Radeon AGP card ever made.

So yes, that ATI AIW 9600XT card is a "good one" -- but so is a ATI AIW 7200 or 7500 card. Or for that matter, a 128 Pro Theatre-chipped card.

Since all of these cards are now going to be bought used/pre-owned, the most important issue is if the ATI All In Wonder cards come complete with all wires, all the drives/software, and are in good working order. No burnt-out inputs, includes purple dongle/breakout box, CD/DVD with software, etc. A lot of what I see has been used/abused heavily, although good condition units do appear. We have some for sale here, contact admin here in this forum to get one while available. I'm adding two more to the available pool of cards as of this week, a 128 Pro and a 7500 (or 9000, forget, would have to look again).

I hope that helps. Thanks.

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  #11  
05-20-2010, 05:18 PM
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Thank you for the comprehensive reply Kp
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  #12  
06-29-2010, 08:09 PM
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Hello again

After a busy month at work I finally got some time to install my AIW card. Its been a bit of a struggle for me as I only have limited access to the internet :-(

Thank you for the AIW card the picture looks great unfortunately I haven't been able to get the sound working. The software dvd you sent is quite confusing and this has been my first chance to ask you for directions for install. I see thiers all I would ever need on the disk but where to start. I seen a note that said 2004 use this and I was being impatient . But when I tried it I got a error message saying display driver not found for this hardware. eventually I got the self installing 7.1 to take
But no sound :-(
In the setup Wizard they show a pic of what looks like a S-Video cable Out into a headphone jack from the Video card to the Soundcard ..
How hard is one of these to find ? ...
After trying all the settings I assume I need one of these S-Video Out Headphone In Cords am I Correct ?

My onboard soundcard is a Realtek AC97

any Help would be greatly appreciated
Thanks again
Riff
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  #13  
06-29-2010, 08:14 PM
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After just posting this I see the thread thats answers most of my questions regarding sound Sorry


I would guess I need a ATI "output bundle ? Correct ?

Riff

Last edited by Riff_Raff; 06-29-2010 at 08:19 PM.
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  #14  
06-29-2010, 09:04 PM
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I think you'd do better to get one of the internal wires. I really do not suggest the output bundle connections for the audio connections, for capturing.

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  #15  
06-30-2010, 06:50 PM
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I see the 2- 3 Pin connectors On the Video card
But I do not see a 3 pin on the motherboard
their is one spot that has a 4 pin position with one pin missing and is labled spk1 .... would this be the spot for the connection ? of my onboard soundcard

Or do you think I should just look for an older audigy pro card to get this worked out ?

Thanks
Riff
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  #16  
06-30-2010, 11:44 PM
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The pin connector you're seeing is for the PC speaker connection. Not all integrated audio features found embedded on motherboards have the full range of features you'd find on a dedicated audio card. That's one reason these extras are cheap, and don't really add much price to the motherboard -- they're just basic sound card implementations.

I'd definitely look at getting a dedicated PCI audio card, for video capturing work, when using the ATI All In Wonder cards. (Same for most capture cards, actually.)

And then you should be fine.

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  #17  
07-01-2010, 08:58 PM
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I found this SB Audigy SE card but I do not see any 3 pin connector on it ?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ImageG...20Sound%20Card
Do you think I will still need to hand wire the sound to the AIW or will this just be a plug and play ?

Riff
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  #18  
07-02-2010, 12:03 AM
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Wait a minute ... 3 pins?

I took another look at one of the ATI cards just now, to re-verify. It's a 4-pin connector that connects the ATI audio feed into the soundcard's auxiliary input, not a 3-pin. Sorry for the confusion. I've corrected the other ATI All In Wonder sound setup post, too.

Your motherboard may or may not have such an audio connection. Even if it does, I still highly suggest a dedicated audio card. You're welcome to try using the motherboard, but look closely for sync issues.

The 7.1 card you've linked to should be fine.

You can get this card for $30 with free shipping from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...SIN=B000LP0R3E

It has the connector:

amazon-soundblaster-4pin.jpg


Side note on 5.1/7.1 SB cards: I don't want to scare you, but when Audigy 5.1 cards first came out, they were often reported to have caused sync errors with capture cards. I've not seen complaints like that in many years, so it may have gone away with better drivers and/or latter generations of cards. That's why I'm always hesitant to say "yes, buy SoundBlaster cards, they're the best!" Hence my previous warning. SoundBlaster's stereo cards were pretty good. When Turtle Beach made stereo cards, those were the best for video capturing, with an even tighter clock sync than the Creative SB cards. I would not necessarily avoid SB cards now. I'd buy one of these, if it was needed.



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  #19  
07-09-2010, 01:38 PM
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If I understand you right
An older sound card such as Sound Blaster Live CT4780 Sound Audio Card will probably have better sync capibility

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sound-Blaster-Li...item563dbec46b
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  #20  
07-10-2010, 09:24 AM
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At this point in time, I think any of the cards would be fine. That card on eBay looks to be a great bargain at $10 with free shipping. As long as it works properly, and comes with drivers, I'm sure it will work out just fine.

Thanks.

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