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  #1  
11-02-2010, 02:38 PM
Urbane0083 Urbane0083 is offline
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Let me start out by saying I've searched this forum a bit prior to posting, and I've printed out/read the following FAQs "Understanding your source", "how to capture AVI", "capture AVI with ATI card", and "audio settings for video capturing".

OK. I've been trying to replace my very, very large library of anime VHS, S-VHS, and some LDs with DVDs. Unfortunately, a large number of my titles were never or are no longer available on DVD. Some of these tapes were commercial, so macrovision *might* be a problem

Many years ago, before I ran out of free time, I bought a PC specifically to start digitization of all my stuff. Now, with the economic downturn... I suddenly have some free time again while I look for a job.

Let me first list my available SW/HW components:
Windows XP Pro Sp3 PC
E6400 with 4gb (3 addressable) RAM
main system HD and a work drive (Seagate 250 and 750gb (16MB 7200 RPM))
~4TB NAS
AIW X1900 (catalyst 7.1)
ASUS My Cinema-P7131*
Sound Blaster Audigy
Panasonic AG-1980
HR-S4500U JVS SVHS (obviously the lesser deck)
Pioneer DVL-909
Virtual Dub 1.6.19

* (was purchased because allegedly the A/D converter available on this card and some others, a Philips P71 chip, was supposedly very good). Shows up as "713x BDA" in Virtual Dub.

Here's my goal:
Best quality possible. (well, duh)
Capture and make some minor fine-tunes on video (crop out overscan areas, adjust hue/saturation, brightness, etc).
Break captured video into episodes (~96min tape into x4 files)
View all files on living room PC through computer onto HDTV screen
File size of at most 600-800mb/hour
.MKV file format? (certainly some variant of x264 compression)

Here's what I've been doing
Capturing in UYVY 4:2:2 de-interleaved
Huffuvy 2.1.1 (settings: best, best)
capturing @ 640x480
cropping out 12 pixels on all sides
resizing to 640x480
de-interlacing using "smart de-interlace 2.8 beta 1 by Donald Graft"
running resulting file through SUPER to reduce from ~100 GB/hr -> 0.8 GB/hr

And from reading some of the FAQs here, I've apparently been doing just about everything wrong and/or doing exactly what I'm not supposed to do.

I should also add that for some reason I can't get the ATI AIW TV application to start, so I may reinstall that package. However, again in the bad luck choice, the ATI AIW x1900 card allegedly uses the theatre 200 chip which people didn't seem to like much.

I've apparently gotten things so backwards that I may as well start completely a new (not that I've gotten that far...)

The one change I was going to make was to switch to 720x480 capture mode (since this will work for vhs, s-vhs, and LD) based on the "suggested capture size" table in the "Understanding your source" FAQ. That same FAQ covered the interlacing issue in detail as well as the cropping issue. However, I'm not entirely sure they apply to my desired end-state. That's why I am asking. I suppose the best way would be to capture the signal progressively? I'm not entirely certain how to set this up.

The one piece of HW I was considering was the ATI 750 or 600 card/USB solutions (depending on what I can find). They are inexpensive enough that I can semi-justify spending the money. Will these do progressive capture and/or fulfill my needs?

I would greatly appreciate assistance. I can also upload clips if requested.

Thank you
-Urbane
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11-02-2010, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Some of these tapes were commercial, so macrovision *might* be a problem
Using a standalone TBC will remove all tape errors. Be sure to read the forum FAQ post on TBCs: http://www.digitalFAQ.com/forum/show...base-2251.html

Quote:
Let me first list my available SW/HW components:
Windows XP Pro Sp3 PC
E6400 with 4gb (3 addressable) RAM
main system HD and a work drive (Seagate 250 and 750gb (16MB 7200 RPM))
~4TB NAS
AIW X1900 (catalyst 7.1)
ASUS My Cinema-P7131*
Sound Blaster Audigy
Panasonic AG-1980
HR-S4500U JVS SVHS (obviously the lesser deck)
Pioneer DVL-909
Virtual Dub 1.6.19

* (was purchased because allegedly the A/D converter available on this card and some others, a Philips P71 chip, was supposedly very good). Shows up as "713x BDA" in Virtual Dub.
Most of the hardware sounds fine. CPU, RAM, drives, audio card.

Windows XP is the best choice, honestly, for video work. Vista and Win7 made just enough changes to be a nuisance to videographers and editors, without really making any improvements to what we could do.

I'm not too sure about the Asus video capture card. Although I'm not 100% familiar with that card, I do have experience with Philips chipset, as well as experience with bad advice online which has included Philips chipped cards in the past. The big draw to that card appears to have been ATSC (and QAM?) and FM, which make no difference to analog video work. It doesn't appear to be exceptional at analog capture in any way -- but I'd be glad to review information that says I'm wrong on that. A cursory Google search shows it to mostly garner problem posts (audio sync issues, no sound, etc), as well as posts suggesting it for what I consider silly uses -- i.e., making the PVR card turn your computer into a DIY TiVo. (If you want a TiVo, buy a TiVo.)

Does that ATI All In Wonder card use the Theatre 200 chipset? There would be a chip printed on the card that says "Theatre 200". I'm pretty sure this model is using that excellent chipset. All we need now is good ATI-made software! Does it come with ATI Multimedia Center (ATI MMC), and do you have it installed? I believe you do, but want to double check.


The AG-1980P is nice. The JVC can be a decent fall-back. I think you're pretty safe here on VHS/S-VHS tapes.

I'd use VirtualDub 1.9.x series for capturing in 2010. Notice that there's a download for it here in this forum, with the filters I use on my main setup pre-installed.

Quote:
Here's my goal:
Best quality possible. (well, duh)
Capture and make some minor fine-tunes on video (crop out overscan areas, adjust hue/saturation, brightness, etc).
Break captured video into episodes (~96min tape into x4 files)
View all files on living room PC through computer onto HDTV screen
File size of at most 600-800mb/hour
.MKV file format? (certainly some variant of x264 compression)
Best quality, that can be done. You have the gear.

Crop overscan, adjust hue/sat/etc -- relatively easy in VirtualDub, either in post-capture processing or possibly even using live capture filters.

Breaking up captured video is easy to do. There's several methods, including a VirtualDub stream copy for each chunk.

Using the computer as a media player will be fine. I have one of these, although I've largely abandoned it due to the excellent Western Digital WDTV series boxes. I can use a WDTV with far less hassle. Something to consider -- even the $50 one is nice.

MKV? Yeah, you can do that, but you'd really have to work extra hard on getting a perfect deinterlace or IVTC for H.264. It's much easier to keep video as an interlaced MPEG-2, and file space is honestly negligible compared to all the work required for a good progressive version. Time is worth something, and I could afford a 1TB, 1.5TB or 2TB hard drive much easier than I could afford to spend hours and hours and hours at a glaring computer monitor. I'd much rather spend my free time watching that newly transferred content, and not simply making it. How about you?

Quote:
I should also add that for some reason I can't get the ATI AIW TV application to start, so I may reinstall that package. However, again in the bad luck choice, the ATI AIW x1900 card allegedly uses the theatre 200 chip which people didn't seem to like much.
Yes, just reinstall it. ATI has (or at least used to have) an "uninstalled utility" that helped with this process. It may be on one of your discs, or you may have to search the ATI site for it. AMD really screwed up the ATI site after they bought out ATI a few years ago.

The first Theatre Rage (Theatre 100) chipset was outstanding. The Theatre 200 found a way to improve on that -- it was one of the most praised capture cards of its day, found in the 9000 series ATI AIW cards. With the Theatre 500/550 cards, ATI really screwed up, and I think AMD is to blame. But they redeemed themselves with the 600/650 chipset cards. The current 750 cards are again not so hot. It's been a roller coaster since AMD got control of ATI. If you read somewhere that the Theatre 200 chipset was not good, then it's probably best you quit reading information from that place -- as that's some crazy crapola.

Quote:
The one change I was going to make was to switch to 720x480 capture mode (since this will work for vhs, s-vhs, and LD) based on the "suggested capture size" table in the "Understanding your source" FAQ. That same FAQ covered the interlacing issue in detail as well as the cropping issue. However, I'm not entirely sure they apply to my desired end-state. That's why I am asking. I suppose the best way would be to capture the signal progressively? I'm not entirely certain how to set this up.
You cannot capture an interlaced signal as progress. (Well, you CAN, but it's going to look horrible. The card will either cram an interlaced signal into a progressive file, which gives you jerky playback with lines on screen. Or it will deinterlace the video, giving you some mix of ghosting, jaggy edges in the image, and stuttering motion, as capture-based deinterlacers almost always use a drop-field method.)

You can capture it all at 720x480 -- that's fine. If you decide to leave it as MPEG-2, then those lower VHS sources would look equally great at 352x480. The S-VHS and Laserdisc may gain some small advantages at 720x480, as they are larger than 352x480, but still smaller than 720.

Quote:
The one piece of HW I was considering was the ATI 750 or 600 card/USB solutions (depending on what I can find). They are inexpensive enough that I can semi-justify spending the money. Will these do progressive capture and/or fulfill my needs?
Don't get the 750. The 600 is a great card, but the ATI AIW you already have should be at least as good as that 600 card/USB is.

And again, you can't (don't want to) progressive capture. You need to capture interlaced as interlaced. If you absolutely must deinterlace, due it in post-capture processing. VirtualDub 1.8 or 1.9 with Yadif would look alright. There's some more complicated methods using Avisynth, but that's just going to make the process more complicated AND make it take longer!

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11-02-2010, 11:13 PM
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I would also highly suggest you look at DVDs that were released in UK, Germany or Australia -- sometimes shows are released there (and not Japan or USA/Canada).Many of my DVDs come from overseas, for this exact reason. Converting your old ratty VHS tapes (and let's face it, anime tapes were often bottom-barrel grade stuff) may be unnecessary if you can get a perfect PAL release from Europe or Oz.

Amazon UK: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/redirect....creative=19450
Amazon Germany: http://www.amazon.de/gp/redirect.htm...creative=19454
(Tip: User Google Chrome as your browser at foreign sites -- it will offer to translate the page via Google Translate in-browser.)

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11-05-2010, 01:33 PM
Urbane0083 Urbane0083 is offline
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Hello again.

Thank you both, Admin and Lord Smurf, for your replies. I was working with your suggestions and trying some optimization on my own before returning here. I figured that would be the best use of everyone's time.

As far as the external TBC goes, having given a quick glance at the prices we're talking, I can't justify spending that sort of money while unemployed. I'll keep in in mind for future notice. I DO have an ancient genlock (a GVP G-Lock VGA+) that if I remember correctly did strip the macrovison signal. I'll have to fire up the PC it is installed in, but that may be a while.

As far as overseas DVDs go, I don't have access to a PAL stand alone DVD player, and I'm not familiar enough with how to convert PAL to NTSC for my usage. I do have a region switchable DVD player, but that I've used for region 1&2(jp). Maybe I don't fully understand.

I managed to get the ATI TV application working. Apparently the second capture card was interfering. In the ATI MMC config utility, I placed that card in the "Unselected Input Sources" bin, and that fixed it. Apparently my version of the ATI TV (and MMC?) is 9.15.

I've also downloaded the AG-1980 manual from the files available here. The deck is a little quirky, for it was an ebay special. I will consult the code sometimes shows and see if the manual helps.

The ATI AIW x1900 card I have MIGHT use the Theatre 200 chip. A chip on the rear of the says Theatre (in proud bold letters) and then it looks like the typsetter ran out of room and crunched something that may say '200' on the very end of the line. The chip is the only visible one that fits your description. Certainly Virtualdub seems to support this, for it is listed as a capture entitled "ATI T200 AVStream Analog Capture (Directshow)".

Speaking of viritualdub, I made friends with the new decade and downloaded your pre-configured version 1.9 as suggested.

I would also agree with your assessment of the Western Digital WDTV devices. I obtained one for a friend in the State Department so that I could send him shows on DVD-R. I was profoundly skeptical of the device when I saw it at the store, but upon purchase and evaluation (before I gave it to him), I was pleasantly surprised. For people who don't necessarily possess the technical knowledge, time, or money for a dedicated HTPC, I'd say they are much more than adequate. Perhaps I should even say they are 'recommendable'. However, I already have a well configured HTPC, so that much is all set.

The Good News is that I've made much more progress on this overall project in the past week than I have in quite some time. I've actually produced some small clips that seem to be viewable on my HTPC & HDTV setup. I have a ways to go still... like 500ish tapes or so.

And now... the 'Bad News' (as if 500 tapes wasn't bad news)

I first tried capturing .avi using the huffyuv-mt codec. However, at 640x480 I was running about 532 mb/min. I think I may have been doing something very wrong. Either that, or some very significant post-capture re-compression is needed. Suggestions? Is it true that .avi would be easier to work with? (see virtualdub issues below)

Therefore, I've been mostly experimenting with MPEG-2 based off the FAQ http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/vid...e-ati-mpeg.htm . There are some things that I'm having a hard time with.

The first is an issue of complete confusion on why video captured at 352x480 looks quite nearly the same video captured at 640x480? One would think that the video would be about 1/2 as wide. Yet when I watch it in windows media player, mediaplayer classic, or VMMC (vista multimedia center - the aforementioned HTPC), it appears to be as wide as 640x480. Yet when brought int Virtual dub 1.9.8, it DOES show up as about 1/2 the width. Huh?! I'm completely confused. Would this same phenomena happen if I were to capture @ 720x480?

Also, I did try using the 'auto-crop'*selection box mentioned in the guide. However, it cut out a surprising amount of valid video signal. I'll therefore no longer use this option. I've attached an example. Note that the slight scrunching of the uncropped video is from me trying to fit them both on the screen at the same time.

So I decided that I'd capture full 640x480, crop it in virtual dub... and then I run into some more problems. Although virtual dub can import the mpg, it begins to behave strangely. The menus start to have a green drop shadow. The input and output panes won't both simultaneously play, and when you move the virtual dub window, you see a green-screen chroma-key type effect in the input panel. Moving the slider only will move the output panel, and the 'play both panels' button doesn't - only output. Also, I can't figure out how to save my cropped and re-sized video as a mpg or is that not an option?

(by the way, I'm using the smart re-size filter. Is it sufficient to have only that filter installed if I'm cropping? It appears that it is applying the crop and then resizing which is what I'd want)

Finally, I seem to be running at about 34.5 MB/min. That is quite a bit more than double what I was shooting for (~800 mb/hr). My bitrate is 4.00 instead of the 3.5 in the guide. Would that make that big of a difference? Was my initial hope out-of-touch with reasonable quality? I know I've seen files that are about that size that look good. Again, I would welcome your advice.

Have a good weekend


Attached Images
File Type: jpg why not to autocrop.jpg (44.7 KB, 8 downloads)

Last edited by Urbane0083; 11-05-2010 at 01:40 PM. Reason: 2001 Error. For some reason post was full of *'s
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  #5  
11-14-2010, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
As far as overseas DVDs go, I don't have access to a PAL stand alone DVD player,
For at least 5 years now, most DVD players have been made in China using generic off-the-shelf kits. It's one reason DVD players are so insanely cheap ($25-50 each). These kits play PAL and NTSC, and the only real differences between players is the power cord and firmware (playback directions and region coding). Homemade discs (or copies of retail discs) have no regions, so that's not an issue. The power supplies are often 110~240V, so the cord is the only difference -- use it anywhere with the right plug adapter. PAL units will play PAL and NTSC, and output PAL-compatible signals. NTSC units will play PAL and NTSC, and will output NTSC.

Converting between formats is a pain an you generally lose a lot of quality with homebrew methods. If you still want to do it, there are some guides on this site for it: Guide to convert PAL DVD to NTSC DVD. But I still suggest against it.

Quote:
The ATI AIW x1900 card I have MIGHT use the Theatre 200 chip. A chip on the rear of the says Theatre (in proud bold letters) and then it looks like the typsetter ran out of room and crunched something that may say '200' on the very end of the line. The chip is the only visible one that fits your description. Certainly Virtualdub seems to support this, for it is listed as a capture entitled "ATI T200 AVStream Analog Capture (Directshow)".
Definitely a Theatre 200 chipset.

Quote:
The first is an issue of complete confusion on why video captured at 352x480 looks quite nearly the same video captured at 640x480? One would think that the video would be about 1/2 as wide. Yet when I watch it in windows media player, mediaplayer classic, or VMMC (vista multimedia center - the aforementioned HTPC), it appears to be as wide as 640x480. Yet when brought int Virtual dub 1.9.8, it DOES show up as about 1/2 the width. Huh?! I'm completely confused. Would this same phenomena happen if I were to capture @ 720x480?
The pixels are not square. The pixels are different rectangular shapes. 352x480 would only appear tall and narrow if viewed as 1:1 square pixels -- meaning it's being viewed wrong. 640x480 is square, but it's not a standard size for DVD, and it doesn't really correspond to the resolution of any video signal out there. VirtualDub and some programs showing 352 as 1:1 are being un-greedy, as ratio correction could use resources. It's just for preview purpose anyway. You can often force resize to 4:3 in the preview settings -- I do this in Womble MPEG-VCR.

Quote:
Also, I did try using the 'auto-crop'*selection box mentioned in the guide. However, it cut out a surprising amount of valid video signal. I'll therefore no longer use this option. I've attached an example. Note that the slight scrunching of the uncropped video is from me trying to fit them both on the screen at the same time.
Never crop captured video -- mask it (cover with black). If you use ATI MMC, there are two places that "cropping" must be set (when using MPEG-2 DVD format) to mask. Cropping harms interlace.

Quote:
So I decided that I'd capture full 640x480, crop it in virtual dub... and then I run into some more problems. Although virtual dub can import the mpg, it begins to behave strangely. The menus start to have a green drop shadow. The input and output panes won't both simultaneously play, and when you move the virtual dub window, you see a green-screen chroma-key type effect in the input panel. Moving the slider only will move the output panel, and the 'play both panels' button doesn't - only output. Also, I can't figure out how to save my cropped and re-sized video as a mpg or is that not an option?
Green video is a sign of codec errors on the computer -- in Windows. You also cannot play both videos at the same time, as they both want the singularly available "overlay" mode of the graphics card. I see green, too, when trying to view two VirtualDub previews side by side in Windows Vista or WIndows 7. This was never an issue on my Windows XP systems. Vista/7 had changes in how media was handled, and none of it was good for us video editors.

Quote:
Finally, I seem to be running at about 34.5 MB/min. That is quite a bit more than double what I was shooting for (~800 mb/hr). My bitrate is 4.00 instead of the 3.5 in the guide. Would that make that big of a difference? Was my initial hope out-of-touch with reasonable quality? I know I've seen files that are about that size that look good. Again, I would welcome your advice.
Which guide are you using? What software is being used for capture? What codec or video format has been selected? Are you capturing in MPEG-2, MPEG-2 for DVD, AVI (if AVI, which codec?), etc?

Thanks!

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11-15-2010, 02:37 PM
Urbane0083 Urbane0083 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
For at least 5 years now, ... and will output NTSC.
Hmmm. This isn't surprising.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
The pixels are not square....
I wouldn't have guessed that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Never crop captured video -- mask it (cover with black). If you use ATI MMC, there are two places that "cropping" must be set (when using MPEG-2 DVD format) to mask. Cropping harms interlace.
Ok. I'll look at masking in vdub filters. I don't recall seeing it though. I'll also look at the ATI setup for masking. Obviously, I will do one or the other and not both


Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Green video is a sign of codec errors on the computer -- in Windows. You also cannot play both videos at the same time, as they both want the singularly available "overlay" mode of the graphics card.
It's not so much the video is green that the area in which videos can play is green. Also, I can play and preview both panels at once with AVIs (which is great to see the effects of applied filters), but I cannot with MPG. I notice that Vdub needs to import the MPG format, so I'm guessing there is some limitation with the compression format or vdub's interpretation of it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Which guide are you using? What software is being used for capture? What codec or video format has been selected? Are you capturing in MPEG-2, MPEG-2 for DVD, AVI (if AVI, which codec?), etc?
Mentioned above in my post, I'm using the guide from here:
http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/vid...e-ati-mpeg.htm

I was using the huffyuv-mt codec for .avi files, but I was alarmed by the capture size leading me to think I was doing it incorrectly. (See in my prev post).
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11-15-2010, 06:52 PM
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There's really no way to encode high quality interlaced MPEG-2 video with an end filesize of 800MB/hour. It's going to end up larger. Even something at a rate of 1100MB/hour (4 hours per DVD SL) is going to be compromised quality, unless it's a cartoon or something with minimal motion or B&W content (certain sitcoms, for example). You ideally want to be at 1700MB/hour (3 hours per DVD SL @ 352x480) for good quality, or double that for 720x480. You could do 2200MB/hour for compressed 720x480, but it will be compromised ("SP mode" 2-hour DVD SL).

Video the bitrate charts at the bottom of this page: http://www.digitalFAQ.com/guides/vid...nd-sources.htm

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11-19-2010, 10:40 AM
Urbane0083 Urbane0083 is offline
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This is taking a bit...

However, I suppose if I get all the details right before I really start working on this that I will not have to re-do anything.

So I am back with some additional questions. I'm starting to realize this isn't going to be as quick as I had hoped.

I have at least previewed some of the files (back when I was scratching my head about the "not square" pictures) on my HTPC and TV, and it looks not too bad - given age of tape and other issues.

1) Since cropping is bad, how do I add a mask to my video file (be it .avi or .mpg)? There doesn't appear to be a place to do so within the ATI software, and I cannot find a mask filter within virtual dub (It's not impossible that I overlooked said filter). I'm using the pre-load Virtual Dub acquired from this site.

2) Editing a video file. Ok, so I have a file that I pressed record and walked away. There is blank space on end of file. I can trim that out easily enough in virtual dub, but then when I go do save the file, it seems to want to re-compress the entire captured file - resulting in about a 40-50 minute wait. Is this really right?

3) I tried capturing as .avi using the ATI card in virtual dub, but it reported a colossal amount of inserted frames. Is this expected?

4) .mpg seems to require importing to virtual dub, and I'm not certain how to correctly "save" edits (again the issue in question one). Similarly, still looking to mask out the bad portions of the signal (over-scan on bottom and jagged/feathered/rough edges on left and right).

5) When I bring a .avi file I captured with ATI TV into vitual dub, it gives an error about non-zero start time on audio stream. Expected? In a possible "bad idea" move, I've not done any work with the audio portion of this project since I restarted the project (shortly after posting here). I should note that my ATI card does not have an audio-loop back port and the added dongles do have RCA Red&White audio ports. Previously, I was using the sound blaster card and the other ASUS capture card (which admin's evaluation blasted into small smoking bits).

6) Finally... Yes, these are all cartoons (anime) so it may be possible to reduce bitrate some. I'm looking at about 500 tapes with on average 98 mins (~1.65 hours) each (entire range is from 40 mins to about 159mins on a T-160 tape). So, at 1.7 GB/hr, I'm looking at about 1.4 TB, which would take up most of the space on my NAS (1.8 TB remains). So I would like to know a way I can get closer to that 1gb/hr mark without shooting myself in the foot.

7) I have very few LDs I'd like to preserve, so that's good. I'll hit them up @ 720x480 and whatever space they take - they take. However, I'd like to subtitle them using the various jacosub and ssa scripts I have. What experience/advice do you guys have with using scripts in virtual dub? Will it be compatible with .mpg or will I have to work with .avi in those (about a dozen) cases?

Thank you again. I'm headed home for the gluttony holiday soon, so I'll be able to check these boards, but not try your suggestions. I hope you all (and fellow posters) have a good Thanksgiving.
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12-06-2010, 11:07 PM
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Any additional input or help here? I waited a bit before /bumping since this is all help people are giving on their own time, but I can't wait too long
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12-09-2010, 07:18 PM
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It's taking us a while to get to some of these more advanced questions, which require longer answers and even screencaps. Currently working to answer Premium Member questions, and getting to Free Members as time permits -- while working on other projects due before Christmas break.

In brief:

1. The options for masking in ATI are called "cropping" in both places. It only works for MPEG-2 DVD captures. Otherwise you'll have to capture with overscan, and mask it in an editor later.

2. If the capture is an uncompressed or lossless AVI, you can chop off what you don't want in VirtualDub, and save a new AVI. To not re-encode, select "direct stream copy" from the video options.

3. No. Frames are being dropped.

4. VirtualDub is an AVI editor that can import MPEG. For MPEG editing, use an MPEG editor like Womble. See the "FAQ" threads at the top of the editing subforums.

5. Use a dedicated audio card, and internally connect the audio from the soundcard to the ATI card. This is shown in another thread in the forum, with photos, from several months ago. Not sure which capturing subforum or workflow subforum thread this was in. Sometimes the "non-zero" start error is a false alarm. Is the audio still in sync?

6. You can generally subtract about 500kb of bitrate for animation.

7. I don't have much for you here. Maybe somebody else will come along with more in the area of subtitles.

Hope that helps.

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  #11  
12-14-2010, 12:27 AM
Urbane0083 Urbane0083 is offline
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Thank you for your reply. I know what the holiday crunch is like, so I'll be patient. I hope I can pony up the $$, which I'll gleefully do if I can get this all figured out. Just some responses to your post:

I am apparently "stuck" with ATI MMC version 9.15. I have the X1900 AIW, which is a PCI-E card as you mentioned here:

Quote:
The latter versions of ATI MMC 9.x required by the PCI-E generation of cards also removed or limited some recording options coveted during the "classic" years, such as VideoSoap. There was also more emphasis on MPEG-4 recording, even though it made for a horrible capture format.

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/show...41&postcount=6
So I while I did locate cropping - it is really very gruesome (as shown in my post above). I'll have to go with overscan capture

I found the direct stream copy (finally). It's still somewhat slow, but much quicker. I just have to remember to change it back to full processing mode as I start improving the video.

In reference to capturing in virtual dub and seeing massive inserted frames, you said this is bad
Quote:
3. No. Frames are being dropped.
What can I do to fix this?


I will look up womble. I know nothing of Womble yet and it may be exact what I need.

This one is problematic:
Quote:
5. Use a dedicated audio card, and internally connect the audio from the soundcard to the ATI card. This is shown in another thread in the forum, with photos, from several months ago. Not sure which capturing subforum or workflow subforum thread this was in. Sometimes the "non-zero" start error is a false alarm. Is the audio still in sync?
You're probably referring to
http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/show...-ati-2292.html

The thing is, my videocard (AIW X1900) doesn't seem to have a sound connector of the nature pictured and definitely nothing on back. It does have a white connector with a single row of eight pins. My soundblaster card has a connector with a single row of ten pins. Since it is PCI-E, does it 'break the rules' and do both sound and video in one slot?

I will try a slightly reduced bit rate and I will examine the subtitle angle some more on my own. I'm pretty sure I saw a subtitle virtual dub filter and I have a copy of SSA (Sub Station Alpha) somewhere that I can use to make more scripts.

I will also drop you a PM after this post, which I hope you have the time to look at.

Thank you very much.
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  #12  
12-15-2010, 07:30 AM
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kpmedia kpmedia is offline
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Quote:
The thing is, my videocard (AIW X1900) doesn't seem to have a sound connector of the nature pictured and definitely nothing on back. It does have a white connector with a single row of eight pins. My soundblaster card has a connector with a single row of ten pins. Since it is PCI-E, does it 'break the rules' and do both sound and video in one slot?
Then you'll probably have to use the audio loopback method, with external wiring, as shown in the referenced diagram/photo ATI AIW audio setup forum post. I guess your card doesn't have the internal audio pass abilities. I've not seen an PCI-E version card in a long time now, so don't remember. When I get a few minutes of time, I'll see if there are any diagrams of the card online (doubt it, but worth a quick search).

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  #13  
12-15-2010, 10:47 AM
Urbane0083 Urbane0083 is offline
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Using my AIW X1900, I tried to capture audio w/o using internal and/or external connectors, and it worked fine in the ATI TV (v 9.15) program in all the differnt modes (avi, mpeg-2) I tried. So I have to assume the PCI-E nature of the card is allowing for this dual functionality. However, attempting to select the ATI card as both the video device and audio device in virtual dub caused virtual dub to hang and required a reset button re-start of the PC.

I've installed Womble now, and I found the "clipper" (which masks areas of video w/ designated color), and it appears to be the filter that has been reccomended all along - one that doesn't change the size of the video area, but instead removes ojbectionable overscan noise and replaces it with black.

I've attached some pictures of my card (sorry, my only digital camera is very old and doesn't handle close-up pictures very well).

What I'm doing now is I've set up a 2hr video capture using the ATI MPEG settings from the guide on this site ( http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/vid...e-ati-mpeg.htm ). I'll work with the catpured file and will return in a day or so.

I'm hoping I get this all lined up and figured out. Once I do, I have my work cut out for me. Thank you again.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg Full pict of card.jpg (56.0 KB, 9 downloads)
File Type: jpg AIW closeup.jpg (57.5 KB, 7 downloads)
File Type: jpg back of card.jpg (14.7 KB, 6 downloads)
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  #14  
12-15-2010, 11:25 AM
NJRoadfan NJRoadfan is offline
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The card likely has onboard audio line-in. DirectShow capture devices can have this ability, it wasn't possible with old VfW devices because the driver architecture didn't allow for it. In VirtualDub, selecting the video capture device (not the WDM VfW wrapper) should automatically select the corresponding built-in audio input on that device.
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