#1  
11-24-2010, 03:36 PM
PonchoPower455 PonchoPower455 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hello all,

This is my first post here, sorry it's a big one but here goes. I have a system rebuild looming large and seem to have run into a wall regarding a new capture card in the current market and could really use some help. I will primarily be recording from VHS, cable input, and dvd player input when needed. My setup is as follows on an XP Pro machine:

Input "X"Device>TBC>ATI AIW9600>MMC for capture and cleaning>output to AVI,MPEG2

As you can see my biggest problem is replacing the ATI/MMC. For me this setup has worked with stellar results. Unfortunately the newer ATI cards seem to suffer from AGC disease that cannot be controlled. I would like to get a replacement of equal capture quality and flexibility as the AIW but my research has led me in circles. Picking a new video card was bad enough but the TV card debacle is giving me a stroke. IMO/experience AIW/MMC was da bomb, the newer stuff seems to be lacking in many ways. Can you guys help?

Thanks in advance

Rob

Last edited by PonchoPower455; 11-24-2010 at 03:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
Someday, 12:01 PM
admin's Avatar
Ads / Sponsors
 
Join Date: ∞
Posts: 42
Thanks: ∞
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
  #2  
11-27-2010, 02:23 PM
admin's Avatar
admin admin is offline
Site Staff | Web Development
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,310
Thanked 654 Times in 457 Posts
Quote:
I will primarily be recording from VHS, cable input, and dvd player input when needed. My setup is as follows on an XP Pro machine:
Input "X"Device>TBC>ATI AIW9600>MMC for capture and cleaning>output to AVI,MPEG2
Looks good to me. I use an identical setup:
  • S-VHS VCR > AVT-8710 > ATI AIW 9600 with ATI MMC > nice clean high-quality AVI and/or MPEG-2

Why are you looking to replace it?
Honestly, there's nothing that can truly replace the classic ATI All In Wonder Radeon AGP cards.
You would be better served by having a dedicated Windows XP system for capturing, using the current configuration. Then add another computer, for whatever reason, as needed. If you don't want multiple mouse, keyboards, LCD/monitors, speakers, etc -- then use a good KVM. Same setup is used here.

You are entirely correct about new cards not being very good. In the days of the ATI AIW, video cards were for "capturing" video. These days, it's about "recording TV" and therefore most quality functions that we're used to are completely missing or severely reduced. (i.e., AVI capturing, clean-up filters, MPEG-2 capture hybrids/hardware, etc).

Can you keep the current system?

- Did this site help you? Then upgrade to Premium Member and show your support!
- Also: Like Us on Facebook for special DVD/Blu-ray news and deals!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
11-28-2010, 10:58 PM
PonchoPower455 PonchoPower455 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
My setup is actually 9600 AIW>AP41>SCC>MMC

My system is getting old, IDE HDD's, AGP, limited memory capacity, it's getting hard to upgrade and I'm running out of room on my hard drives. I really don't have the room for two PC's but have thought about that. The problem is it makes the new build that much more expensive as I cannot salvage anything from the other unit and have to build from scratch. The AIW's were the bomb! I didn't realize it at the time but later on the value became 10 fold. Plus the fan is starting to go on the AIW.

My 3 options were/are??

Pinnacle AV/AD
Pinnacle Movieboard HD
Hauppauge 2250

I'm not really thrilled with any of these but.....whachagonnado. If anyone has feedback on these choices I would appreciate it. I'll have to give up the tuner option most probably but it is a trade off that is worth it I guess for better quality capture. The KVM it a great idea actually.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
11-28-2010, 11:36 PM
NJRoadfan NJRoadfan is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,155
Thanked 357 Times in 293 Posts
I have an AVermedia HD DVR PCIe card. The software it comes with isn't the greatest for analog SD capture (auto deinterlaces, clunky interface), but the card does have DirectShow drivers and works with any DirectShow capture program (ie: VirtualVCR, VirtualDub, etc.). Being a modern card, it also has full support for Windows Vista/7 32 & 64bit, the cards you mention may have spotty support. The card itself has no hardware MPEG encoder, its a raw capture card, compression is all software based. Note, there is a USB HD DVR, it DOES have a MPEG encoder, but forces you to use AVermedia's crappy software, there is no DirectShow support and should be avoided.

The Bad:
I had a few issues with capture inserting frames, but its likely an issue with my machine's hardware (likely the 640GB harddrive). Others have had great success with this card capturing HD with no dropped frames, so thats unusual. Also this card is EXTREMELY sensitive to unstable sync on video tapes, a TBC is a must.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
11-29-2010, 01:18 PM
PonchoPower455 PonchoPower455 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
@njroadfan,

Thanks for the reply, I aggree a TBC is must, thats no problem I use one all the time. Windows 7/Vista doesn't concern me as I sticking with XP. Mpeg encoding would be nice but AVI or HuffyYUV is the way to go for clarity, so no problem there. I am a little confused as to why you think a large hard drive is a "problem"? Dropped frames 90% of the time result from CPU interruption or a slow machine. My biggest concern is quality, clear captures(as good or better than an AIW) from an analog source i.e. NTSC TV, VHS. Without frame drops and sync problems due to the hardware
Reply With Quote
  #6  
11-30-2010, 11:10 AM
NJRoadfan NJRoadfan is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,155
Thanked 357 Times in 293 Posts
I never really isolated the problem with capture on my machine. The problem appeared to be something at the driver level. While capturing, the video preview would freeze/stall and VirtualDub would insert null frames to compensate, almost like the capture driver stopped randomly sending video for no reason. No complaints about capture quality, SVHS and broadcast sources look great. I haven't tried HD capture yet, but there are plenty of samples on YouTube for that.

I haven't had any audio sync issues using the onboard audio inputs either.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
11-30-2010, 07:29 PM
admin's Avatar
admin admin is offline
Site Staff | Web Development
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,310
Thanked 654 Times in 457 Posts
Quote:
My setup is actually 9600 AIW>AP41>SCC>MMC
ATI All In Wonder 9600 AGP
Hotronics AP41 TBC
Sima SCC for proc amp feature

Understood.

Quote:
I really don't have the room for two PC's but have thought about that.
I would migrate all data to the new computer -- heck, clone the whole C:\ hard drive over to an "Old C Backup" folder on the new computer, just in case. The old computer only needs a C:\ OS drive, and a secondary drive large enough to hold your captures. Any other drives can be moved to a new computer, if there's room. Then re-format the old system, install Windows XP and the ATI All In Wonder drivers with ATI MMC, VirtualDub, Womble MPEG-VCR (or Womble MPEG Video Wizard or VideoReDo), and other small video-related incidentals as needed. For me, that's usually SoundForge, the XVID codec, VLC, HuffYUV, Avisynth, etc.

Then keep both computers. You can simply use a KVM.
More on Using KVMs to control multi computers at http://www.digitalFAQ.com/forum/show...trol-1615.html

Quote:
The problem is it makes the new build that much more expensive as I cannot salvage anything from the other unit and have to build from scratch. The AIW's were the bomb! I didn't realize it at the time but later on the value became 10 fold.
You really cannot and/or should not anyway. Even the cases from a decade (or half decade) ago did not provide quality airflow needed for today's overheating rigs. For example, those 1TB-2TB hard drives really need fans that blow over them, otherwise they die in just a couple of years. Some of those new CPU's and video cards require heat sinks so large that you really should get a modern case made for that sort of mess.

Power supplies are different these days, too, and sometimes don't fit well in old cases. The layout of the fans and screws are off a bit. It's still ATX, but a far later version. Been there, done that.

If you're worried about size, buy a pre-built HP slimline computer for about $500, for all your non-capturing needs. These things are about the size of a 20th century kids school lunchbox. Lots of slims to choose from at http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.ht...reative=390957
Best of all, you can carry it to a TV, and connect via HDMI. It comes with a remote control that can operate the media center aspect of it, or you can get a cheap wireless mouse/keyboard set and operate from across the room. I do this from time to time. Mine is stocked with a Blu-ray drive, too.

Quote:
Plus the fan is starting to go on the AIW.
It honestly does not need a fan. Get yourself a RAM chip heatsink, cut it in half with a hacksaw, sand it with metal sandpaper, wash it in water and dry it in paper towels, let it dry overnight, then attach it with the sticky pad it came with.

For example, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...SIN=B003WGLSNW
Although these do not come with adhesive.
However, this is cheap, and comes with the right tape: http://www.jdoqocy.com/click-3235990...82E16835119015

Quote:
Pinnacle AV/AD
Pinnacle Movieboard HD
Hauppauge 2250
None of the above.

If you really insist on a new PCI-E chipset motherboard for capturing, then you'll want to hunt down one of the rarer ATI All In Wonder cards that still used Theatre 200 + ATI MMC. For example, the ATI X1800. See it at http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...SIN=B000CC0NYO

Quote:
The KVM it a great idea actually
If you get the one in my link, you'll love it!
This Airlink is awesome: http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.ht...reative=390957
Even with four computers, everything fits on/under the desk! One mouse, on monitor, one keyboard, one set of speakers. And if your desk is using slimline/mini type computers, it's an itty-bitty footprint overall. If you have "big" desktop cases, and are equipped with Thermaltake silent 140mm fan power supplies -- and you go with 90mm+ sized adjustable-speed quiet fans -- you can have 4 computers on, and you'll barely hear anything at all. I do this.

The bueaty of a KVM is you can have one computer capturing, then switch to the other system to take care of other work. Want to transfer files fast between them? No problem. Gigabit ethernet cards ($10 each) and a gigabit switch ($20-30) is all you need. I highly suggest the DLink gear: http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.ht...reative=390957

Quote:
I am a little confused as to why you think a large hard drive is a "problem"?
Sounds like a local issue, not an issue of it simply be a large drive. As he replied...
Quote:
The problem appeared to be something at the driver level.
There are quite a few crappy drivers out there for SATA/IDE, especially when it comes to VIA chipsets. One of my systems is on a VIA board, and the IDE/SATA drivers can be a nightmare when refreshing the system -- which I don't do very often, for this reason.

Quote:
My biggest concern is quality, clear captures(as good or better than an AIW) from an analog source i.e. NTSC TV, VHS. Without frame drops and sync problems due to the hardware
Which is why most cards won't work for you.

The other options available, but for which I've intentionally shied away from, is the ATI 600 USB2 cards. In my eyes, that's a compromise compared to owning a full dedicated ATI AIW AGP system with ATI MMC and VirtualDub.

There's been a number of threads about it. Search and read them all: http://www.digitalfaq.com/search.htm -- that is, if you're determined to ditch the old system and create an entirely new one.

Another thing about new computers -- you probably want Vista x64, not XP. Maybe XP x64. Some of the latest hardware, such as 4K drives, just isn't going to work well on XP systems. Leave XP for non-new dedicated video systems, relegated to video tasks. Use the new computer for editing or encoding at most, and then everything else like Office, email, web browsing, etc. Keep the old system as a virgin. At most, install Chrome as the web browser on the old one.

If you want ATSC or QAM capture, then there are some Hauppauge cards, PCI or USB, that provide that function. And there's no harm in having a good ATI for NTSC, and a good Hauppage for ATSC/QAM at the same time. I do it.

- Did this site help you? Then upgrade to Premium Member and show your support!
- Also: Like Us on Facebook for special DVD/Blu-ray news and deals!
Reply With Quote
Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Blank Media Guide Confusion - TDK CMC MAG M01 pmdiaz23 Blank Media 3 10-16-2010 05:34 PM
Capture card for my JVC HR-S9900U soundlight Capture, Record, Transfer 8 11-19-2009 06:58 AM
Looking for used capture card naga Capture, Record, Transfer 6 07-07-2008 09:52 AM
Capture card Wineslurper Capture, Record, Transfer 6 07-12-2005 08:04 AM

Thread Tools



 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:00 AM