Quantcast Need a good external DVD burner to record videos - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
04-18-2011, 05:51 PM
Kenneth M Kenneth M is offline
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Okay, here's the situation:

Have both NTSC and PAL VCRs that I will transfer SP recorded ex-rentals from the 1980s.

I need to go from VCR-->TBC(if needed)-->SignVideo detailer(if needed)-->Panasonic DMR-ES10(as passthru if needed)--> DVD BURNER

I have been informed that if I go into the computer as a capture device I will macroblock. I want to avoid that!

So I will go from DVD-r burn to computer, then do the rest of the work that I want.

So the DVD burner I need has to:
1) Record in PAL and NTSC.
2) Be pretty available right now, as I need to start this project asap.

I've gotten some advice for these models:

Toshiba XS32, XS34, XS35 for semi-clean sources.
Or maybe RCA DRC-8030N for really clean sources.
JVC DR-M10 / DR-M100 for not-clean sources.
or even a JVC-DRMV1/MV5

Help me set the record straight... What should I get for my specific application?

(Or... am I barking up the wrong tree and should just capture and burn from my computer, before editing?)
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  #2  
04-22-2011, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
I have been informed that if I go into the computer as a capture device I will macroblock.
This is completely false information.
Macroblock artifacts (as opposed to "macroblocks", which is how MPEG-2 video is encoded) are only visible when the encoding method lacks adequate bitrate, or to a lesser extent, when there are other mitigating encoding quality issues.

Moving on...

Do you want to capture directly to MPEG-2 ?
Or are you willing to capture to AVI, then two-pass software encode to MPEG-2, author, and burn?

Are you in a rush to "just get it on a disc", or do you want to perhaps work towards a more archival quality?

This choice is also affected by the quality of the input source. Is this retail-quality video, or is it homemade? The issue here is chroma noise. JVC S-VHS VCR TBCs will effectively knock out most lesser and mild chroma noise, while more severe issues need to be run through something known to tackle it. For example, LSI chipset based JVC DVD recorders (which is only certain models manufactured from 2004-2007).

You would find a quality DVD recorder that records both in PAL and NTSC. The few units that do this tend to be mediocre/lousy quality.

All of the DVD recorders you have been suggested so far are great under those listed circumstance. However, I'd need to know more about the source to say "Yes, get this one, it's perfect for you."

So tell me more about your tapes.

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  #3  
04-22-2011, 11:38 AM
Kenneth M Kenneth M is offline
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Everything is ex-rentals from around the world of Italian Crime films of the 1970s.

Here's a link of my collection here.

Everything is SP, 2 hr play using really good video stock. That's why "ex-rentals" are so important, is the really good video stock used for them. The "sell-thru" videotapes usually use lousy tape stock and have problems with longevity and quality.

You know what I've put into this as far as $, I have my computer built and am just lacking a few of the cheaper programs. So that's pretty much ready to go.

I just had a private conversation with someone and he said that for better quality I'd be best off going from VCR-TBC-Signvideo-Image Enhancer-DVD-R burner. Then, transferring to the computer from the burned dvd-r for further work.

I am in a rush now, but I don't want to lack any of the quality that I can get. Especially for what I've invested in this hobby. What I need now is a solid direction to go.
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  #4  
04-23-2011, 12:55 AM
NJRoadfan NJRoadfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by admin View Post
This choice is also affected by the quality of the input source. Is this retail-quality video, or is it homemade? The issue here is chroma noise. JVC S-VHS VCR TBCs will effectively knock out most lesser and mild chroma noise, while more severe issues need to be run through something known to tackle it. For example, LSI chipset based JVC DVD recorders (which is only certain models manufactured from 2004-2007).
Can these machines be used as a pass through filter like the Panasonic ES10? To add about the JVC LSI chipset... I think the later DVHS units have it too.
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  #5  
04-25-2011, 02:13 AM
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Quote:
I just had a private conversation with someone and he said that for better quality I'd be best off going from VCR-TBC-Signvideo-Image Enhancer-DVD-R burner. Then, transferring to the computer from the burned dvd-r for further work.
While this can be true, it really depends on the workflow scenario.

Kenneth, after running the commercial-quality ex-rental tapes through a high end JVC or Panasonic S-VHS VCR, TBC, optional detailer/sharpener, optional ES10 for tearing/flagging correction -- Do you feel the signal quality is clean enough for you? I would imagine so.

In light of that, I'd suggest taking a look at at RCA DRC-8030N 80GB HDD recorder. It has a Zoran chipset, which outputs really clean quality. Several members here have that recorder, and I need to see about posting some sample clips. It's probably the most transparent recorder, with highly quality encodes. (The downside, of course, is that it does no further signal cleaning, which is generally needed for most VHS tapes -- most people are transferring homemade recordings, not retail VHS tapes.)

I forget the other non-HDD RCA model with the same chipset. I know it's either mention in this forum, or in some of my research materials.

The Toshiba XS series (32, 34, 35, 36), and a few other models (search past threads at this site, as I know it's been discussed in forums posts going back at least 5-6 years), offer excellent recording quality, too. Those some models have known IRE issues. These are all hard drive units.

JVC is an excellent unit, though not completely transparent. However, that's a good thing in most cases, and it almost always makes a DVD that looks better than the tape. It sort of takes 1 step back, but then 3-4 steps forward, so it's a net gain for most workflows. Just maybe not this specific one, however.

None of these are new in stores, as you surely already know (as buyer of all that other good gear).

Be careful buying used:
- RCA DVD recorders tend to have abused DVD burners,
- JVC DVD recorders tend to have the "loading" errors (a bad burner, bad HDD OR bad capacitors that need replacing), and
- Toshiba recorders tend to have bad HDDs.

To fix:
- The RCA and JVC burners are somewhat easily replaced,
- and the JVC capacitors are simple to locate and replace.
- Hard drives -- not so much.

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  #6  
04-27-2011, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJRoadfan View Post
Can these machines be used as a pass through filter like the Panasonic ES10?
LSI chip DVD recorders? No. Those functions only work on encode.

Quote:
To add about the JVC LSI chipset... I think the later DVHS units have it too.
No, not the same, not the LSI Logic DiMeNsion 86xx chipsets.
Not that I'm aware of at least.

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  #7  
04-27-2011, 01:57 PM
Kenneth M Kenneth M is offline
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Okay, so what you are saying is that:

1) Capturing to a recording device instead of a computer does not improve quality.

2) Capturing to a computer will not directly result to macro-blocking.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

So, whomever told me these things was incorrect.

However, given the situation, with the things I want to record, a great recording device would be the RCA DRC-8030N, as well as other dvd-r machines you mentioned. But these would only solve the NTSC recordings I need to transfer.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

So, if I cannot improve the quality by recording directly to these, and then run into PAL ~ NTSC problems, then it looks like I would be a fool to not just capture to my computer.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I really hope that other users can learn from your advice, as I have!

Now I've another thread to start.
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  #8  
04-27-2011, 04:02 PM
NJRoadfan NJRoadfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by admin View Post
No, not the same, not the LSI Logic DiMeNsion 86xx chipsets.
Not that I'm aware of at least.
This post states the HM-DH40000U/SR-VD400US uses the 8602: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...315#post701315

LSI press release from 2003 states their chip is used in this VCR, sadly with no specifics: http://www.cdrinfo.com/sections/news...px?NewsId=8247

This guy over at AVSForum likely knows more: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post20074846
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  #9  
04-28-2011, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth M View Post
1) Capturing to a recording device instead of a computer does not improve quality.
No. Separate concepts.
Take this analogy: "I get fat because I eat." ---- Obviously, there are some missing facts. It could be correct, or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth M View Post
2) Capturing to a computer will not directly result to macro-blocking.
Same answer.

Quote:
But these would only solve the NTSC recordings I need to transfer.
Import a PAL DVD recorder from UK/Germany, or use a capture card for those specific tapes. I'd often suggest a person just pay somebody else to do PAL work in North America, but you already have the other gear. That's a better S-VHS PAL VCR than mine, I bet, too.

Quote:
So, if I cannot improve the quality by recording directly to these, and then run into PAL ~ NTSC problems, then it looks like I would be a fool to not just capture to my computer.
Maybe. I use all of the above. AVI captures, MPEG captures, DVD recorder captures. Whatever suits the scenario. No two tapes ever act the same, so many methods are available to fight the tape. Let's be honest here, converting tapes is a bit like jousting. I'm reminded of that funny Mac video some many years ago. (It's true, too. You don't use a Mac as much as you fight with it, and make it obey your commands.)

Quote:
I really hope that other users can learn from your advice, as I have!
Hey, that's why the site is here.

Quote:
Now I've another thread to start.
I think I just answered in it, too.

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  #10  
04-28-2011, 10:03 AM
Kenneth M Kenneth M is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
No. Separate concepts.
Take this analogy: "I get fat because I eat." ---- Obviously, there are some missing facts. It could be correct, or not.
Scenarios? Or just even consider where I'm at... What would you do? SP tapes on good tape stock needing archiving...

Quote:
Import a PAL DVD recorder from UK/Germany, or use a capture card for those specific tapes. I'd often suggest a person just pay somebody else to do PAL work in North America, but you already have the other gear. That's a better S-VHS PAL VCR than mine, I bet, too.
Well the majority of my collection is PAL. So, most of my work will be in PAL.

I actually fought over finding a PAL 9700 JVC after reading on VH how much you loved that particular VCR in NTSC. Then after reading here how the Panasonic MV-HS1000 might be even better, I had to buy it too. The only other VCR I wish I could add would be the JVC BR-S822E with TBC and noise reduction options. Studying PAL-land I think those might be the top three PAL machines for playback.

Quote:
Maybe. I use all of the above. AVI captures, MPEG captures, DVD recorder captures. Whatever suits the scenario. No two tapes ever act the same, so many methods are available to fight the tape. Let's be honest here, converting tapes is a bit like jousting. I'm reminded of that funny Mac video some many years ago. (It's true, too. You don't use a Mac as much as you fight with it, and make it obey your commands.)
Lol! Again, given my scenario, with what tapes I am transferring and what I have equipment & computer-wise, what would you do at this point? Do you think I would benefit from importing a dvd burner, or should I capture straight to the computer?

Quote:
I think I just answered in it, too.
Thank you thank you thank you!!
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  #11  
04-28-2011, 12:13 PM
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What would I do?

For NTSC tapes, I'd use my RCA or hunt down a Toshiba XS, for MPEG recording. Recordings would be "DVD ready" right away. Or if I felt it could use more cleanup, my JVC recorders. Rarely would I capture quality NTSC tapes to AVI.

For PAL tapes, I'd use my ATI All In Wonder AGP cards. Or My ATI 600 USB card. Probably opt for high bitrate MPEG-2 files (15-20k), and then downsize in MainConcept Reference to smaller DVD compliant bitrate.

In fact, that's not just what I "would" do, but it's what I do do. ("Si, I mean oui.")

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  #12  
04-28-2011, 02:55 PM
Kenneth M Kenneth M is offline
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Laughed at your last comment. Funny stuff...

Okay, so I got the Toshiba on ebay... Linky

It was way more than I could afford, but what the heck...

I'm going to hope it'll burn PAL too. If not, it looks like I may be in for a search in Europe for a good burner....

Thank you sir!
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  #13  
04-28-2011, 05:48 PM
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Good gear holds its value. A "wanted" DVD recorder is worth at least 50-75% of MSRP. This DVD recorder was $400+ new, and it still holds out for a good $200+ in prime condition. So you paid a fair an typical price for it, assuming it works. (By comparison, you can't even give away and unwanted DVD recorder for free.)

The fan on this model runs 24/7, so unplug it when not in use for long periods of time. There are also some mods to simply disable the fan, or even add a toggle switch. There is some LiteOn modification info on this site, in the forums, and it could also be applied to the Toshiba. It's one of those little "whirry" type fans you find in some external hard drive enclosures.

It may or may not be noticed, depending on how good your hearing is, and what else is in the room.

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  #14  
04-28-2011, 06:23 PM
Kenneth M Kenneth M is offline
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Wow! Really good info on this model. Thank you for the heads up. I will definitely unplug it between uses, as that's what I plan on doing to save money on the electric bill.

I will follow up on a PAL machine here shortly.

Thank you for all your help!
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