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05-24-2011, 10:33 AM
hobbster hobbster is offline
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Greetings,

I have posted this same question on another forum, but am looking for strong input from folks like lordsmurf.

I am trying to set up a procedure to copy about 100 VHS tapes that contain family videos to my computer's hard drive. I currently have a JVC VCR with TBC and a Elite BVP4+ connected to a JVC DR-M10 DVD recorder. I used this set up a few years back to convert several VHS Tapes to DVD.

At the time I used programs like DVD Decrypter, Womble, and Ulead DVD Workshop to edit and then re-author the edited video back to DVD's. I was very pleased with the finished quality of video.

Now with the easy availability of Massive (1TB & Up) Hard drives, I am considering capturing more of my VHS tapes but this time I think I want to keep all of the captured video on a hard drive as the final storage location. This will allow for easy indexing of video clips by Year, Month, Date that the clips were originally taken as well as allowing for some descriptive file names like “Christmas Morning at Grandma’s, etc….)

I have looked at several forums to see if others are doing this Hard Drive storage of video’s. Surprisingly, I do not see any discussion on this "Hard Drive Storage" method.

So, my question is, what (if anything) is wrong if I use my current setup to capture VHS Video to re-usable RW DVD's using the JVC DR-M10. Then rip those DVD's to my hard drive with a program like "DVDFab". Then edit the ripped video files with "Womble MPEG-VCR" and saving the edited files to my hard drive as MPEG-2 files. I do not plan on keeping any of the captured video on DVD’s, the hard drive version of video would be my final copy.

I know that there are other "Capture Devices" and capture programs available to capture directly to my hard drive. However, for simplicities sake, I think using the above method may prove to be the fastest for me.

Plus, the saved files could be authored to a DVD at any future date and should be of the same quality as the JVC DR-M10 recorded in the first place.

Please post you thoughts / comments about this idea.

Thanks In Advance,
-Hobbster-

I am in USA, all material is NTSC
I Always Record DVD's in "2 Hr Video Mode" using the JVC DR-M10.
I am Editing with Windows 7, (Although I do have a few other PC's running XP)
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  #2  
05-24-2011, 05:14 PM
Tuco Tuco is offline
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There isn't necessarily anything wrong with storing your DVD's onto a hard drive if that is what you want to do. BUT, you have to remember that like everything else, hard drives eventually die and are susceptible to the elements so its imperative that you maintain proper backup copies of your videos( ideally on external HDs in different locations like the office or a relatives house ). Otherwise, you run the risk of losing all your hard work. I made this mistake back in 2000 when I capped an entire series onto a single HD and boxed it up. 11 years later and the data is corrupt and most of the drive is unreadable. Fortunately the TV series is now available on DVD, but your home videos won't be. Admin posted a good, well-priced external drive in the Deals section of this forum. You can find it here.
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  #3  
05-25-2011, 04:08 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbster View Post
I am trying to set up a procedure to copy about 100 VHS tapes that contain family videos to my computer's hard drive. I currently have a JVC VCR with TBC and a Elite BVP4+ connected to a JVC DR-M10 DVD recorder. I used this set up a few years back to convert several VHS Tapes to DVD. At the time I used programs like DVD Decrypter, Womble, and Ulead DVD Workshop to edit and then re-author the edited video back to DVD's. I was very pleased with the finished quality of video.
Excellent method, hardware and workflow.

Quote:
Now with the easy availability of Massive (1TB & Up) Hard drives, I am considering capturing more of my VHS tapes but this time I think I want to keep all of the captured video on a hard drive as the final storage location. This will allow for easy indexing of video clips by Year, Month, Date that the clips were originally taken as well as allowing for some descriptive file names like “Christmas Morning at Grandma’s, etc….)
I do this, too. I don't create anywhere near as many personal or hobby DVDs like I once did.

Quote:
I have looked at several forums to see if others are doing this Hard Drive storage of video’s. Surprisingly, I do not see any discussion on this "Hard Drive Storage" method.
We'll have to fix that.

Quote:
So, my question is, what (if anything) is wrong if I use my current setup to capture VHS Video to re-usable RW DVD's using the JVC DR-M10. Then rip those DVD's to my hard drive with a program like "DVDFab". Then edit the ripped video files with "Womble MPEG-VCR" and saving the edited files to my hard drive as MPEG-2 files. I do not plan on keeping any of the captured video on DVD’s, the hard drive version of video would be my final copy.
Use DVD Decrypter, not DVD Fab, for extracting footage off your JVC-made DVDs. Aside from that change, the method is still fine.

Quote:
I know that there are other "Capture Devices" and capture programs available to capture directly to my hard drive. However, for simplicities sake, I think using the above method may prove to be the fastest for me.
You're correct -- there are other methods, each with their own limitations, weaknesses and drawbacks. You're wise to stick with what works. "If it ain't broken, don't fix it."

Quote:
I Always Record DVD's in "2 Hr Video Mode" using the JVC DR-M10.
FR180 and XP are better. Read this: Is SP MODE the Best DVD Recorder Mode? (NO!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuco View Post
There isn't necessarily anything wrong with storing your DVD's onto a hard drive if that is what you want to do. BUT, you have to remember that like everything else, hard drives eventually die and are susceptible to the elements so its imperative that you maintain proper backup copies of your videos (ideally on external HDs in different locations like the office or a relatives house). Otherwise, you run the risk of losing all your hard work. I made this mistake back in 2000 when I capped an entire series onto a single HD and boxed it up. 11 years later and the data is corrupt and most of the drive is unreadable. Fortunately the TV series is now available on DVD, but your home videos won't be. Admin posted a good, well-priced external drive in the Deals section of this forum. You can find it here.
All true.

I'd suggest two drives of different make/model -- one of those Fantom 2TB drives (green or non-green), and one Western Digital EARS20 4k 2TB drives (either internal or in an enclosure, Windows Vista or 7 only for 4k drives!). This way you avoid fundamental flaws of any drive, if it ever comes to that. Never backup on the same disk type as the disk being backed up.

I do all of this. I can attach the Fantom drive to a WDTV player, via USB, and it's better than having a DVD player. Video playback has come a long way in the past decade, that's for sure.

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  #4  
05-25-2011, 01:23 PM
hobbster hobbster is offline
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Tuco & lordsmurf,

Thank you for the prompt and informative responses. I too, have been "bitten" in the past with loosing material that was stored on a hard drive. Once you have that happen, you become obsessive with back ups. I now keep smaller back ups "crossed backed up" on several different computers and use portable hard drives for my larger back ups.

I think clearly understood all of your responses except for one of lordsmurf's comments:

My orgional post:
I Always Record DVD's in "2 Hr Video Mode" using the JVC DR-M10.

lordsmurf response:
FR180 and XP are better. Read this: Is SP mode the Best DVD Recorder Mode? (NO!)



OK, I read the referenced document. I understand how my DVD Recorder's SP Mode is recording at 720X480 with a 5000-5500k VBR (5 Mbps). I also understand how the source from a VHS NTSC tape (due to it native size), does not need to be captured at 720x480. It may be captured at 352x480 at a (lower) bitrate of 2500-2750K and produce a smaller resulting file size with the same quality of the larger 720X480 SP mode file size.

But now for my question, I do not think I have the ability to set the capture frame size on my JVC DR-M10, I am stuck with capturing at 720x480. So, if I record in XP mode 720x480 @ (10Mbps), It seems like I am going in the opposite direction from your "Is SP MODE the Best DVD Recorder Mode" advice. I will end up with a even larger file size than my current SP capture mode. I believe the point of your article was reduce your capture size, lower the compression bit rate, and end up with more (of equal , or better quality video) in less storage space.

Lordsmurf, sorry, but I need a little more help in understanding your advice, I know I am missing something, but not sure where or what ??.....................

Thanks Again,

- hobbster -

Last edited by hobbster; 05-25-2011 at 02:14 PM.
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  #5  
05-25-2011, 08:35 PM
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Let's deconstruct it real quick.

XP mode = 1 hour of time = 720x480 @ ~7Mbps
SP mode = 2 hours of time = 720x480 @ ~5.25Mbps
FR180 mode = 3 hours of time = 352x480 @ 3.3Mbps
LP mode = 4 hours of time = 352x480 @ 2.5Mbps

So SP = LP, in terms of overall image quality.
And XP = FR180, in terms of overall image quality.

(NOTE: Technically 720x480 is "sharper", but when the source footage is not as sharp as 720x, it doesn't really matter. You can't just make it sharper by using a sharper recording mode. To illustrate this, get a blurry photo, rip it in half, then tape it back together. Did making it take "more paper" make the photo sharper? No, of course not.)

The only caveat is when the recorder is lousy as 352x480.
But the JVC DVD recorder you have is EXCELLENT at 352x480 resolution, so this is not a worry.

These "hours of time" are for 4.3GB of space, so a single-layer DVD-R or DVD+R blank.

XP and FR-180 are both better than SP, for the overwhelming majority of content a home user is able to access and record from. Old VHS tapes, for example, are well below 720, near/at 352, when converted to a digital equivalency of available detail. If you want to archive your old home movies in "best quality", select either XP or FR180.

Quote:
I believe the point of your article was reduce your capture size, lower the compression bit rate, and end up with more (of equal , or better quality video) in less storage space.
The original intention was that, yes, but the information was more along the lines of showing how SP (2-hour) = LP (4-hour), and how XP (1-hour) and 3-hour when available (FR180 on JVC) is better than both SP and LP. As added bonus, FR180 is not just better than SP, but gives an extra hour of space! XP is best of all, but 1 hour per 4GB is what is required.

The takeaway should have been this:
  • SP is not "best" -- it's the same visually as LP
  • XP is best.
  • FR180 is best when the source is a "low" medium resolution (like VHS tapes, cable, analog TV broadcasts, etc), as FR180 looks "the same" as XP.
Honestly, seeing how these are family home videos, just use XP mode, since space isn't really a big issue (since you'll be using hard drives from now on). Save FR180 for TV recordings, old VHS tapes of TV/movies, etc. Don't even bother with SP. Use LP only when you value space of the quality of the content. (Not that SP or LP are "bad" on a JVC recorder -- just not the best option.)

6-hour mode should never be used -- it's awful.

Hopefully that clears it up.

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  #6  
05-26-2011, 03:43 PM
hobbster hobbster is offline
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Lordsmurf,

OK, now I got it. I did not know that FR180 mode and LP mode recoreded at 352x480.

Now, everything you were reccomending makes sense.

Thanks for you valuable assistance,

-hobbster-
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  #7  
05-26-2011, 03:48 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is online now
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Excellent.

If you have any more questions on video, photo or web/print publishing, we'll be here.
Just make new posts in the right subforum.

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