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  #21  
08-24-2016, 05:29 PM
dinkleberg dinkleberg is offline
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Should put a warning in the OP to stay away from Huappauge cards. Getting them to work properly is a headache and takes hours of fiddling with different drivers versions, and you'll likely wind up with hardware MPEG encoded footage anyway.
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  #22  
01-13-2019, 09:44 AM
Rehnquist Rehnquist is offline
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How comparable to a Canopus ADVC-100/110 DV capture box or an ATI HD 600 is this Elgato USB stick? And is the HD 750 as good as the HD 600? Just wondering as I'm having trouble finding any 600 listings but there's a few 750 out there (on eBay...)

Side note, how does the Canopus connect to a PC?

Elgato Video Capture - Digitise Video for Mac, PC or iPad (USB 2.0) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0029U2YSA...language=en_US

Trying to feel out the best solution that is also accessible. I've found some of these are harder to come by in 2019!
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  #23  
01-13-2019, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Rehnquist View Post
How comparable to a Canopus ADVC-100/110 DV capture box or an ATI HD 600 is this Elgato USB stick? Side note, how does the Canopus connect to a PC?
Just get the ATI 600 USB, and I still have a few in the marketplace.

A Canopus is DV, loses 50% of color data for NTSC (4:1:1), only decent for PAL (4:2:0 like most MPEG captures). It must connect via Firewire, which is also becoming harder to use -- not that it was ever easy, always had screwy issues.

That Elgato is a piece of junk, 640x480 max resolution.

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  #24  
07-11-2019, 03:20 PM
murfmurfmurf murfmurfmurf is offline
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What is the difference between the ATI 600 USB series and the subsequent revisions (650, 750, etc.)? Do they use an inferior chipset or something?
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  #25  
01-08-2020, 11:01 AM
soucevit soucevit is offline
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Hi, I am planning to digitize VHS and looking for decent capture device. (VHS sorted in separate thread)
So from what I understand ATI AIW cards are more less dead due AGP not avaliable anymore and W10 driver compatibilities. Unless one likes to run Pentium 4 era computer with WXP hoping nothing will just die of old age without easy replacement.

While picking from the list on the first page I see as an options:

1. Professional capture card(Aja Kona or Matrox)+HD capture card. Is then digitizer and capture in two separate devices?
I also cannot easily see how to connect to VHS (Composite/S-Video+Stereo sound) I can see they have SDI, Component or HDMI as video input interface or some proprietary cables without any cables on photos (did not took much time digging) So quite confusing stuff with lost of worries I will not make it work. Also I am not sure if I am paying premium for no or at least lower damage of picture leaving VHS.
2. Consumer models which are
USB capture sticks which looks easy if drivers work and only issue the will be conecting audio to sound cards and capture them together from two devices (I guess no big deal)
OR
Analog to DV converters which are even easier for me, while i worked with DV camcorder for while and I have PC with firewire and capture in Premiere always worked very well for me.

Have I missed anything for PAL SD capture or there is much more to consider?

Thanks.
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  #26  
01-09-2020, 03:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soucevit View Post
So from what I understand ATI AIW cards are more less dead due AGP not avaliable anymore and W10 driver compatibilities. Unless one likes to run Pentium 4 era computer with WXP hoping nothing will just die of old age without easy replacement.
Why do you think this? You can still build XP/7 systems. AGP was on motherboards that took Core 2 Duo/Quad CPUs, 4gb+ RAM, SATA II, PCIe, etc. I have Asrock boards with XP.

Win10 is a terrible OS for video. It's a tablet OS that was crippled for audio/video, especially in latter updates (mostly due to GDPR).

Quote:
I also cannot easily see how to connect to VHS (Composite/S-Video+Stereo sound) I can see they have SDI, Component or HDMI as video input interface or some proprietary cables without any cables on photos (did not took much time digging)
Do not use HD cards, even if it "also" captures SD (as most do so badly, especially Blackmagic and Magewell cards). There are plenty of USB cards for this task -- and less costly.

Quote:
2. Consumer models which are
USB capture sticks which looks easy if drivers work
Certain cards are known to work in Win10. Most take workarounds -- again, terrible video OS -- but do work.

Quote:
and only issue the will be conecting audio to sound cards and capture them together from two devices (I guess no big deal)
No such thing occurs.

Quote:
Analog to DV converters
These lose 50%+ of color quality (for NTSC, not PAL). For PAL, the 4:2:0 is fine. Not lossless, but still decent. However, the bigger problem is connectivity, between Firewire, and software like WinDV that can act up, insists on over-segmenting everything (even when segmenting disabled).

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  #27  
01-09-2020, 05:03 AM
soucevit soucevit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Why do you think this? You can still build XP/7 systems. AGP was on motherboards that took Core 2 Duo/Quad CPUs, 4gb+ RAM, SATA II, PCIe, etc. I have Asrock boards with XP.
Well I was not planning to have dedicated PC for video capture and my current one is newer than that. However i have two PCI slots and PCMCIA adapter in one of them. Also firewire COM port floppy header. it is also Asrock board :-)

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Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Win10 is a terrible OS for video. It's a tablet OS that was crippled for audio/video, especially in latter updates (mostly due to GDPR).
I am running W10 as upgrade from W7. Never had an idea this could be an issue. I am not looking forward turning back to W7 while I have to have this PC somewhat usable for everyday tasks,

Any possibilities and comparison in Linux? While one option is dedicated capture machine, could Mac be better option? Like Mac mini could be dirt cheap, takes no space compared to PC tower, has FireWire USB, harddrive could be external if integrated is too small. I never used Mac tho...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Do not use HD cards, even if it "also" captures SD (as most do so badly, especially Blackmagic and Magewell cards). There are plenty of USB cards for this task -- and less costly.
OK, I had no intention using them. Even I was first interested in solution Technology Connections suggested it looked too good to be true and i left this idea after few discussions here and elsewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Certain cards are known to work in Win10. Most take workarounds -- again, terrible video OS -- but do work.
USB + workarounds could be way for my current setup then, but if it is worse quality option of the ones mentioned just cause W10 then I kinda do not favor it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
These lose 50%+ of color quality (for NTSC, not PAL). For PAL, the 4:2:0 is fine. Not lossless, but still decent. However, the bigger problem is connectivity, between Firewire, and software like WinDV that can act up, insists on over-segmenting everything (even when segmenting disabled).

I am in PAL territory. If I am doing this for other people (maybe) and if somebody brings me NTSC tape (unlikely) to copy to PC it is similar situation if he brings me BetaMax, Hi8 or 8mm film. (kinda more likely then NTSC tape) I just don't have any hardware for it.

Question then is how does PAL capture thru ATI AIW, USB sicks you mentioned and DV box capture compare?
As I said I captured DV from miniDV camcorder which I still have somewhere, so I can test it out again in W10 for example. It was not completely straight forward task but doable in Premire. Result was aprox 30GB avi in SD per tape which i then edited in Premiere and mastered to DVD. I did not knew better way to do it but I guess most of quality loss was at the end between processed AVI and DVD. Which I will not do now while drive space is not much of an issue as it was at the time.

Speaking of DVD. Maybe it is for different thread or bad way of thinking all together, but simply just using DVD recorder is an option? I guess it is also question which one and its settings. And for sure it lowers editing options even when using hard drive inside. On the other hand. In europe now DVB-T is being transferred to DVB-T2 and most of these are starting to be obsolete for households making them "scrap metal" so getting decent one might be easy. And I still have one from Sony home in our living room.

Sorry for such load of newbie questions. I am still looking for decent VCR anyway and just making clear my next steps.

Last edited by soucevit; 01-09-2020 at 05:28 AM.
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  #28  
01-09-2020, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soucevit View Post
I am running W10 as upgrade from W7. Never had an idea this could be an issue. I am not looking forward turning back to W7 while I have to have this PC somewhat usable for everyday tasks,
Easy solution. Yank Win10 SSD/HDD, swap to video/Win7 SSD/HDD for video only. When done, swap back. Essentially manual dual boot. My dev system has 3x HDD: WinXP, Win7, Win10. I just move the SATA cable to whatever I want to boot into.

Quote:
Any possibilities and comparison in Linux?
Linux can work with some cards, but it's fiddly and hackish more than not. Some cards, like ATI 600 USB, must have custom firmware loaded. So it's almost a 1-way trip.

Quote:
While one option is dedicated capture machine, could Mac be better option? Like Mac mini could be dirt cheap, takes no space compared to PC tower, has FireWire USB, harddrive could be external if integrated is too small. I never used Mac tho...
For PAL DV only, maybe. The newer macOS are grumpy, DV capture task for OS X days.

Quote:
Even I was first interested in solution Technology Connections suggested it looked too good to be true and i left this idea after few discussions here and elsewhere.
Perfect example of what happens when novices try to be teachers. He doesn't even know what he doesn't know.

Quote:
USB + workarounds could be way for my current setup then, but if it is worse quality option of the ones mentioned just cause W10 then I kinda do not favor it.
Of all the Win10, the Pinnacle option is best. And it's quite decent on its own merits, regardless of Windows version.

Quote:
I am in PAL territory. If I am doing this for other people (maybe) and if somebody brings me NTSC tape (unlikely) to copy to PC it is similar situation if he brings me BetaMax, Hi8 or 8mm film. (kinda more likely then NTSC tape) I just don't have any hardware for it.
Question then is how does PAL capture thru ATI AIW, USB sicks you mentioned and DV box capture compare?
AIW best.
Then USB like ATI 600 USB, clones, Pinnacle, some others.
DV is last. In PAL, decent. In NTSC, terrible.

Quote:
As I said I captured DV from miniDV camcorder which I still have somewhere, so I can test it out again in W10 for example. It was not completely straight forward task but doable in Premire.
That really will not end well. Premiere is a terrible capture software. Amazing NLE, but the capture task is terrible, lots of issues, with the main problem being dropped frames.

Quote:
Speaking of DVD. Maybe it is for different thread or bad way of thinking all together, but simply just using DVD recorder is an option?
Maybe. What is the project goal? If source is analog tapes, stick to LSI based (some JVC, some LiteOn, etc). If digital tapes, then any decent recorder known for quality (ie, NOT Panasonic, most Sony, etc).

Quote:
Sorry for such load of newbie questions. I am still looking for decent VCR anyway and just making clear my next steps.
It's what the site is for. In fact, in the name: FAQ. You got questions, we got answers.

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  #29  
01-09-2020, 02:12 PM
Bogilein Bogilein is offline
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Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
AIW best.
Then USB like ATI 600 USB, clones, Pinnacle, some others.
DV is last. In PAL, decent. In NTSC, terrible.
I have followed now for about 20 years german speaking video fourms from Austria, Swiss and Germany.

The recommended hardware for SD PAL capture on these videoforums is:

Canopus NX (Unfortunately you'll need Edius to capture your tapes).

Followed by Pinnacle 500,710 USB, Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle (capture over HDMI Input from HDMI Output from DVD Recorder, don't use the analog inputs).

The Canopus NX and the Blackmagic (HDMI capture) are not popular here on these forum but haven't been testet from the valued users.

If you will use the ATI AIW,600 it's necessary to use an external tbc. The ATI's have problems with Macrovision (false Macrovision).

My advice make your own testing and compare.
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  #30  
01-09-2020, 03:28 PM
soucevit soucevit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogilein View Post
I have followed now for about 20 years german speaking video fourms from Austria, Swiss and Germany.

The recommended hardware for SD PAL capture on these videoforums is:

Canopus NX (Unfortunately you'll need Edius to capture your tapes).
I will check these out tomorrow. Looks like there is great variety of types and slots they use. Unless it is PCI or PCIE I will need to buy MB to use them.

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Originally Posted by Bogilein View Post
Followed by Pinnacle 500,710 USB, Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle (capture over HDMI Input from HDMI Output from DVD Recorder, don't use the analog inputs).
So DVD recorder is used as digitiser (or even upscaler?) This kinda asks for references for good/bad ones in picture quality or used A/D chips and if there are some just digitizers using the very same ones while DVD recorders are bulky with loads of unnecessary parts to be used just as picture format converter.

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Originally Posted by Bogilein View Post

If you will use the ATI AIW,600 it's necessary to use an external tbc. The ATI's have problems with Macrovision (false Macrovision).

My advice make your own testing and compare.
As I understand TBC can be part of high end S-VHS machine. Also Macrovision (if you mean VHS copy protection) will not be on any tapes I like to digitize. Unless our long time gone Mitsubishi VCR put it on our home videos. If somebody will ask me to digitize some released VHS movie, will get link to the online store to buy DVD or Blu-ray anyways.

I will make my testing for sure and I will be more than happy to post results here. It sounds like good idea to identify "dead ends" first before i set sail for my dream VHS remastering setup.
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  #31  
01-09-2020, 10:38 PM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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This will be a rambling post, but I can't think of a better way to clean it up. So: your goal is PAL VHS capture, ideally on Win10.

Some quality comparison threads you might like to look at. My VideoHelp username is vaporeon800; I wrote a lot of replies in the thread below.

VideoHelp: Conventional analog capture workflow vs alternative methods - comparison (sprawling thread because FLP347 made a lot of config errors while learning, but includes a lot of nice samples so you can see quality differences for yourself vs. taking someone's word for it)

Test comparison: AVT8710 + Canopus NX + DMR EH65

---

For most of my own NTSC captures, my preferred workflow is the second method mentioned by Bogilein, though slightly modified. Instead of:

S-VHS player <S-Video> DVD recorder <HDMI> HDMI splitter* <HDMI> Blackmagic Intensity variants

I do:

S-VHS player <S-Video> analog proc amp <S-Video> DVD recorder <HDMI> HDMI splitter* <HDMI> AVerMedia C027 or C127

* Specific models that remove copy protection

The choice of DVD recorder model is critical, since it's replacing the digitization function of a typical capture card setup and externalizing it outside of the PC.

latreche34 aka dellsam34 uses a similar externalized approach, but with SDI instead of HDMI.

As he notes, some downsides of using consumer HDMI devices instead of pro SDI devices can include forced signal processing. For example, although I can disable the scaling functions of the three NTSC HDMI DVD recorder models I've used, I can't disable deinterlacing (lowest res is 480p). Fortunately, it's 100% losslessly reversible (I confirmed with careful testing). But it's an annoying extra step. My understanding is that all of the popular PAL models allow 576i over HDMI.

Note: some HDMI and SDI capture cards change the incoming video instead of capturing the digital signal as-is, so you do have to be careful of that as well. (I thought I posted the images of my Osprey card altering colors of SDI test patterns, but if I did I can't find them.)

---

If you're interested in the Canopus NX PCIe hardware (Canopus NHX-E2), I'm willing to sell mine. But I don't have a copy of the necessary software to offer. (And shipping from Canada to your PAL land will probably negate any deal I could offer.)

I bought it because PAL users on forums say that it corrects horizontal jitter, but I found this wasn't the case with my NTSC tapes. And I don't have a PAL VCR to test with. https://gleitz.info/forum/index.php?...orrektur-ntsc/

I imported my NHX-E2 from Japan, where it was called Velxus 300. The photos on this Greek eBay listing also show "Made in Japan", so I assume they were all made there. (Canopus was a Japanese company.)

https://web.archive.org/web/20051208...s300_index.htm
http://www.canopus.ir/products/ediusnx.htm

I've got the NX Bay and Component Output board shown there, but never tried to use them.
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  #32  
01-10-2020, 01:36 AM
soucevit soucevit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post
This will be a rambling post, but I can't think of a better way to clean it up. So: your goal is PAL VHS capture, ideally on Win10.

Some quality comparison threads you might like to look at. My VideoHelp username is vaporeon800; I wrote a lot of replies in the thread below.

VideoHelp: Conventional analog capture workflow vs alternative methods - comparison (sprawling thread because FLP347 made a lot of config errors while learning, but includes a lot of nice samples so you can see quality differences for yourself vs. taking someone's word for it)

Test comparison: AVT8710 + Canopus NX + DMR EH65

---

For most of my own NTSC captures, my preferred workflow is the second method mentioned by Bogilein, though slightly modified. Instead of:

S-VHS player <S-Video> DVD recorder <HDMI> HDMI splitter* <HDMI> Blackmagic Intensity variants

I do:

S-VHS player <S-Video> analog proc amp <S-Video> DVD recorder <HDMI> HDMI splitter* <HDMI> AVerMedia C027 or C127

* Specific models that remove copy protection

The choice of DVD recorder model is critical, since it's replacing the digitization function of a typical capture card setup and externalizing it outside of the PC.

latreche34 aka dellsam34 uses a similar externalized approach, but with SDI instead of HDMI.

As he notes, some downsides of using consumer HDMI devices instead of pro SDI devices can include forced signal processing. For example, although I can disable the scaling functions of the three NTSC HDMI DVD recorder models I've used, I can't disable deinterlacing (lowest res is 480p). Fortunately, it's 100% losslessly reversible (I confirmed with careful testing). But it's an annoying extra step. My understanding is that all of the popular PAL models allow 576i over HDMI.

Note: some HDMI and SDI capture cards change the incoming video instead of capturing the digital signal as-is, so you do have to be careful of that as well. (I thought I posted the images of my Osprey card altering colors of SDI test patterns, but if I did I can't find them.)

Thanks for another view and sources for comparison. I will look thru it over weekend.


Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

If you're interested in the Canopus NX PCIe hardware (Canopus NHX-E2), I'm willing to sell mine. But I don't have a copy of the necessary software to offer. (And shipping from Canada to your PAL land will probably negate any deal I could offer.)

I bought it because PAL users on forums say that it corrects horizontal jitter, but I found this wasn't the case with my NTSC tapes. And I don't have a PAL VCR to test with. https://gleitz.info/forum/index.php?...orrektur-ntsc/

I imported my NHX-E2 from Japan, where it was called Velxus 300. The photos on this Greek eBay listing also show "Made in Japan", so I assume they were all made there. (Canopus was a Japanese company.)

https://web.archive.org/web/20051208...s300_index.htm
http://www.canopus.ir/products/ediusnx.htm

I've got the NX Bay and Component Output board shown there, but never tried to use them.

Thanks for offer, but I guess Canada is too far for shipping to make sense. Colleague of mine will spend some time in states next month, so maybe if he can bring it to me, but if possible I will look in local sources.
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  #33  
01-10-2020, 08:36 AM
hodgey hodgey is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post
For most of my own NTSC captures, my preferred workflow is the second method mentioned by Bogilein, though slightly modified. Instead of:

S-VHS player <S-Video> DVD recorder <HDMI> HDMI splitter* <HDMI> Blackmagic Intensity variants

I do:

S-VHS player <S-Video> analog proc amp <S-Video> DVD recorder <HDMI> HDMI splitter* <HDMI> AVerMedia C027 or C127

* Specific models that remove copy protection

The choice of DVD recorder model is critical, since it's replacing the digitization function of a typical capture card setup and externalizing it outside of the PC.
I've also used the DVD-Recorder -> HDMI setup quite a bit, in addition to the VC500 on other machines. I use a Sony RDR-HX750 for good tapes and a Panasonic DMR-EH57 for more problematic tapes the Sony's TBC can't deal with well . (For REALLY bad tapes I have an ES10 as well, but that doesn't have HDMI). I've used a JVC DR-M300 a bit in the past as well.

As msgohan noted, the downside with this approach is that DVRs can have filters and settings that are not very tuneable. I'm in PAL land, so I haven't had any issues with getting the DVRs to output 576i. However, the Panasonic and to a much lesser extent JVC have a tendency to clip whites, so I use a make-shift analog "proc-amp" (actually just a potentiometer from a cassette deck connected between Y and ground) to lower the video level a bit. The Sony (and related pioneer models) have adjustable brightness levels and AGC so it rarely gives me level issues.

The Sony uses a chipset made by NEC. NEC's brand for their multimedia system chipset solution is EMMA. It's also used in Pioneer DVRs (newer Sony and pioneer models are basically identical). Early Sony and Pioneer models used different hardware, though that was pre-HDMI. Toshiba used similar hardware for some DVRs, but they've also seem to have used a zoran-made chipset and later models are rebranded Funai units that use panasonic A/D chip.

The Sony (and related pioneers) have ok jitter correction, but not as good as the panasonic models. There are some H sync and V sync settings in the service menu though, which I plan to test as I picked up a programmable remote that I can put the service remote codes on.

I know there is at least one capture card, the Avermedia M780, that uses related NEC chips for video decoding but I don't know how well it works. There may be more out there but it doesn't seem to be used much on capture devices, avermedia seems to mostly use conexant chips on their SD capture cards.

The Panasonic unsurprisingly use a panasonic chipset, it has pretty decent jitter correction and is good at keeping sync in general, though not quite as good as the older ES10 I got. I've never seen any capture devices using panasonics chips.

The JVC has a custom JVC A/D chip (I thought used a TI TVP5150 but turns out it has that chip is used for something else in it.) and a LSI chipset for mpeg encoding and general system stuff. It has barely any jitter correction, though I found it can do a decent job otherwise. One interesting thing is that unlike the two other DVRs, the HDMI out does not require HDCP for material that is not copy-protected (Sony and Pana does not work at all without my HDMI splitter for capturing). It pops up with a copy-protection message if it detects it when connected to a non-HDCP device instead.

I do also have a LG DVR with HDMI, which uses a Philips/NXP SAA7136, though I've only briefly tested it on a monitor, it does not do jitter correction at least. That chip is found in some capture cards, and related philips A/D chips are (or were at least) widely used in dongles and pci cards.

One interesting thing with capturing via this method is that pixels on the left/right edge of the picture is are blanked as they typically are when using a TBC or DVR via S-Video out, usually there is nothing there but on some tapes it does pick up a bit more image.

Last edited by hodgey; 01-10-2020 at 08:54 AM.
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  #34  
01-10-2020, 11:39 AM
soucevit soucevit is offline
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Thanks for all the replies. Its getting bit too overwhelming and seems situation is more like "every family has its own perfect BBQ" than "here is cookbook recipe everybody loves"

As DVD recorder I have Sony RDR-HXD790. Never used any analog inputs so I even don't know they work and how quality looks. We bought it new so I am not worried about it and I will for sure try it.

One thing in discussion have caught mine eye.
How about setup:
(S-VHS VCR) >>---S-Video+RCA Stereo sound--->> (SD Digitizer) >>---SDI--->> (PCI/USB/PCIe digital capture card)
If the capture card and its driver can just save the stream to some readable format, that can be later processed without real time dependency it could help preserve quality of digitized media. Like if capture takes hundred(s) of gigabytes and takes week(s) to lossless compress to something more practical, I am fine with it. So question is if those HDMI+SDI (Blackmagic) cards do this?
I guess then finding right digitizer would be the main issue. SD-SDI is 90s studio format so maybe some old studio equipment? How much could these things wear under everyday use? And did they care about quality that much at the times of analog TV while processing digitaly? And I kinda can see no answers will be straight forward.

The point behind this one is: If I am recording digital HDMI source to PC, there will be loads of devices varying quality. Starting at those dollar amazon/ebay/aliexpress unranded boxes nearly small as connectors, thru various DVD recorders, to professional studio tech for thousands. SDI cuts this to much smaller group of devices making selection somewhat easier. Or more difficult to find.
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  #35  
01-11-2020, 02:50 AM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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My personal take is that while I would prefer to use "pro" SDI gear, the reality is that proper handling of consumer tape sources was not at the top of the engineers' priorities. Whereas there was a period where consumer DVD recorders were designed to finesse crappy consumer tapes.

I have one SDI TBC with a mode specifically designed for what the manual calls "home type VCRs", but it performs worse than a DMR-ES15.

latreche34 enables the line TBC of his JVC S-VHS when feeding it into his small, modern SDI frame TBC box. So he's using it as ADC & frame sync only, which any HDMI DVD recorder also does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hodgey View Post
I know there is at least one capture card, the Avermedia M780, that uses related NEC chips for video decoding but I don't know how well it works. There may be more out there but it doesn't seem to be used much on capture devices, avermedia seems to mostly use conexant chips on their SD capture cards.

The Panasonic unsurprisingly use a panasonic chipset, it has pretty decent jitter correction and is good at keeping sync in general, though not quite as good as the older ES10 I got. I've never seen any capture devices using panasonics chips.
I bought a "custom" card put together by danno78 that works with the drivers of AVerMedia H777 (linked pic shows NEC µPD61253). Another model with same chip is this weird F210 Ethernet box. But I can't see what chip my XCard actually uses. This other guy seems to think it's a separate model entirely.

It's pretty good with ordinary recordings, but can't handle the stress of multi-gen: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...deo-samples%29

---

Off the current topic because they're NTSC-only & require old Windows versions, but Japan got some exclusive models advertised as touting TBC, 3DNR, & 3DYC. I have a 13-page Google Doc full of my research compiled from 2014-2016, but they're just my own notes, not really in a form I'm comfortable sharing.

I bought a few of them. In my comparison, I-O DATA GV-MVP/RX3 [μPD61153B] & GV-MVP/GX2 [XCodeII-E with "frame synchronizer (TBC equivalent)"] actually had worse horizontal stability than old ATI cards. https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...on-screenshots

I also got a capture card that uses a Panasonic chip for TBC; it's not included in that thread because it arrived in a semi-functional state. But my testing showed that it seemed to match the performance of my DVD recorder captures, including their faults.

Old 2chan post with some comparisons. Canopus MTV2000 is one of the cards containing a Panasonic video processor.
Quote:
314 : 名無しさん@編集中[sage] 投稿日:2014/12/25(木) 23:48:33.06 ID:Qt3Ht8lp [4/5回]
訊いてばっかりも何なんでTBCの比較をどうぞ
ソースはEV-NS9000でHi8のLPモード

GV-USB2 (TBC一切無し): 画面上部が常にヘロヘロと不安定。
http://i.imgur.com/qLv6Qoq.png

EV-NS9000 内蔵TBC: 画面上部が常に一体の形で歪む。スイッチングノイズはトリミングされる。
http://i.imgur.com/IaZZZdQ.png

MTV-2000: 上から下までバッチリ安定。スイッチングノイズもほぼ除去。
http://i.imgur.com/GyJNKe9.png

RD-Z1: 画面上部に大きな歪み。
http://i.imgur.com/syDAeyN.png

FA-310: スイッチングノイズ消滅。激しく乱れると暴走することあり。
http://i.imgur.com/N1Ve3on.png

FA-390: 話にならない。
http://i.imgur.com/pk3zD8m.png
Another interesting thing I found in my research was this "stabilizer" box built around a Panasonic chip; but being from 2003 it doesn't have HDMI.

Last edited by msgohan; 01-11-2020 at 03:17 AM.
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  #36  
01-11-2020, 06:11 AM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
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From ~18 years ago.

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...OK-VERY-HOT%29
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  #37  
01-22-2020, 03:59 AM
ginopilotino ginopilotino is offline
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The price of mxo2 has gone down a lot. Here in europe is about 300€ (340$) or even less. I got one.
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The following users thank ginopilotino for this useful post: swiego (01-23-2020)
  #38  
02-07-2020, 04:33 PM
bakerie bakerie is offline
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Are any of the old internal PC Hauppauge cards any good? I have one in the attic, but I'm not digging it out if they're all rubbish.
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  #39  
02-08-2020, 12:38 PM
bakerie bakerie is offline
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I've managed to find a video card I have from 2003. It works off a Phillips SAA7134HL. This does all the work. Has anyone any experience with it?

Here's the data sheet:
http://pdf.datasheetcatalog.com/data...ps/SAA7134.pdf
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  #40  
02-08-2020, 01:22 PM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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https://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Saa713x_devices

I have a SAA7133HL card. On Windows XP and probably Linux, it's extremely configurable. It handles unstabilized VHS much better than any USB capture device I've tried. Of course, without using any line TBC there is still some wiggling even with my most stable retail tapes.

One downside is that it's only 9-bit; there is banding in histograms of all my captures with this card regardless of Proc Amp settings. Visually, I haven't seen this banding. The noise in my VHS caps may be enough to mask it. I haven't yet tried to capture any DVD test patterns with it, but it's on my to-do list.
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