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  #1  
06-16-2011, 07:51 AM
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This has been discussed before on the forum, but I'll run down the short list again...


Best ATI All In Wonder Card Alternatives

If you're forced to use newer OS (Windows Vista/7/8/10), and newer hardware (no AGP slot), then you'll want to look at these alternatives. Choose from either $50-100 range consumer capture cards (ATI, Hauppauge, Canopus), or $200+ professional capture cards (Aja, Matrox). The price range is "used-new", where applicable. At minimum, each works flawlessly in VirtualDub, as well as their own specialized capture software.

Suggested professional capture cards: (analog to digital + other advanced video features!)
Suggested consumer capture cards: (analog to digital)
Important Notes!
  • ATI capture cards may also be sold by the following private label brands: VisionTek, Diamond, AMD.
  • ATI 600/650 series bare hardware photos only shows coaxial inputs, but the photos are misleading. A complete ATI capture card kit includes additional wiring that allows for s-video and composite input. (And no, it's not fed through the coax.) These cards are from the PVR generation, so most of the marketing text relates to recording TV, TV tuners, timeshifting, etc. Simply disregard and ignore.
  • For the ATI 600/650 series capture cards, you'll want to capture NTSC MPEG-2 with ATI Catalyst Media Center (ATI CMC, download here), and then capture NTSC or PAL AVI with VirtualDub. Unfortunately, there is no way to capture PAL MPEG-2 with this setup. It was created for Japanese and North American markets, not European markets.
  • The Matrox MX02 comes as either internal or external, for connecting to PCI express or ExpressCard.
  • Canopus ADVC series DV converters have been listed as an alternative card that will function in Windows Vista and Windows 7, but it is the least suggested card on this entire page. Canopus boxes are DV only, and tend to "cook" the color quality of your videos (saturation and contrast are both increased). The ADVC-300's so-called "TBC" does nothing observable, and the video filters do little more than make video ghosty and blurry. The ADVC-55 would be the least costly of the three Canopus DV box options, and does all that is needed. Your videos will be hardware compressed to DV AVI files, or DV MOV/Quicktime files on Mac.
  • Remember that the capture card is only a small portion of the overall equipment needed to get quality captures! You'll still need, at very minimum, a good VCR and a good timebase corrector (TBC). For 8mm formats, you'll need a good Sony 8mm/Hi8/Digital8 camera. And that's all "good" equipment by video standards, not the typical consumer's "I don't see a problem with it, so I guess it's good" non-standard (because they don't know the difference between good video, and videos with obviously flaws/problems!).
  • Amazon reviews warning! While the intention of user reviews is to provide feedback on products, more often the reviews do little more than show the knowledge (or lack thereof) of the person leaving the review. At the time of this writing, for example, there's a really bad 1-star review for the Matrox MX02 that's clearly been left by somebody that doesn't know what he's doing. (HDMI capture from a retail Blu-ray, for example -- of course that's not allowed!) Don't be overly swayed by Amazon reviews, neither good nor bad, as at least half of all Amazon reviews have clearly been left by clueless reviewers.
  • eBay buying warning! Most used capture cards found on eBay tend to be missing parts (even when the auction text claims otherwise), and have been used in unknown conditions. Capture cards are somewhat fragile hardware, and the devices can be ruined by long-term exposure to heat and cigarette smoke. You don't want somebody's old-and-abused capture card. Be very careful when shopping there. eBay is more like a garage sale or flea market than a used car lot at a dealership (where cars were inspected, fixed, complete, etc).

Quick History on Why ATI AIW Cards are Preferred

The ATI All In Wonder card -- or more specifically, the ATI Theatre Rage and Theatre 200 chipsets on the cards, coupled with the ATI Multimedia Center (ATI MMC) software -- were an unexpected force on the video capturing market. Prior to the ATI AIW cards, you could choose from really crappy $50-100 consumer capture cards based on Bt chipsets, or high quality professional specialty cards in the $1000+ range (DV only, MPEG only, etc). ATI managed to create a card that had most of the capture abilities of higher end cards (MPEG-2, DV, etc), as well as the advantages of lossless and uncompressed AVI capturing. As an added features, it threw in some PVR type functions. These cards really ate into the business of the higher end card makers like Matrox, and pushed down the prices of inferior cards based on Bt/Conexant. For several years there, if you were capturing video (and doing a good job at it!), you were using something from ATI, Hauppauge, Canopus or Matrox.

Fast forward to about 2009, and most video capture cards and DVD recorders had died off, replaced by TiVo-like clones meant to only record from TV. Advanced features created for analog conversion had largely been dumped, making new cards useless for all but recording ATSC "digital" TV (including HDTV). Therein lies the reason many people still use, keep and look for these "old" ATI All In Wonder cards.

The suggested ATI All In Wonder cards are here: ATI All In Wonder Hacks, Drivers, Codecs and MMC

The only downside to these older cards is that you're pretty much required to use Windows XP, and you'll need a motherboard and CPU from that era. You can't buy the latest-and-greatest quad-core Intel and Windows 7. That generation of OS and hardware belongs to the "PVR" generation of video -- not the analog-to-digital conversion era.

When possible, simply get a motherboard with AGP. Dumping a motherboard is preferred to dumping the ATI AIW cards.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rappy
Well I ran into a problem. Looks like my mobo does not have an AGP slot. Just PCI. So what is my next best choice? Ati600? Really? Nothing really appealing on eBay and I hate to try that? Any other suggestions? Any other cards from grass valley or Matrox? Within reason on $$$. Or should I try the black magic? As you see from my list of goodies. I like collecting stuff. I just want it to turn out as best it can! Thanks for any feedback. Rappy
If you have any further questions on capture cards, either reply here or post a new thread.


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  #2  
06-19-2011, 08:00 PM
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Will become premium member soon!...But as an aside,from this topic..A BIG THANK YOU! For this site!!..Last year I found a Brand New Mitsu. HS-HD2000U At: "MR. TV" in Grand Terrace,Ca. for $189.00 out the door!!and sealed factory to boot!!(don't tell anyone,but they still have 2 more as of 6/15/2011!) Phone is (909)824 2500...Then got an AVT 8710,Then a new WIN 7 System with TV Wonder 650 hd...Then tried a few captures with poor results...Then After researching your forums further,discovered that An XP system built around an AIW Card IS THE WAY TO GO!! So as I started asking around the local comp and surplus stores,Not only did I get some funny looks,but also opened another bag"o"worms;Like missing I/O cables for AIW cards,AGP vsPCI,Ect,Ect,!!!...My Question is I found an AIW 2006 Edition Radeon 9600 agp 8x/4x online NEW for 59.00 @ an online retailer that looks legitimate! Should I Grab Now??? Also was wondering if any diff between the AGP /PCIE version of this particular card?Since the PCIE cards were changed for the worse???And if this card truly is NEW,it should have all the stuff and save a lot of hassle?Also,any suggestions for a low cost XP CPU components?(mob,processor,ect...)And finally,a local surplus store has an AIW x800xt for 15.00,but I would need to get the cables AND internal power cable AND PARYAY! THAT IT WORKS!.....Already located, cables n stuff are available at S.video.com and TXcess.com.Sorry for long wind,But thanks for any help!(2 years of flustration and counting)Rewards just around the corner!!??
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  #3  
06-19-2011, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
A BIG THANK YOU! For this site!!
Welcome. Glad to hear you've found it helpful.

Quote:
Question is I found an AIW 2006 Edition Radeon 9600 agp 8x/4x online NEW for 59.00 @ an online retailer that looks legitimate! Should I Grab Now??? Also was wondering if any diff between the AGP /PCIE version of this particular card?Since the PCIE cards were changed for the worse???And if this card truly is NEW,it should have all the stuff and save a lot of hassle?
As per the above post, ATI All In Wonder cards are a preferred card for converting analog video (VHS, 8mm, etc) to lossless and uncompressed AVI files, in order to further process and edit them with software like VirtualDub or Adobe Premiere Pro. It's an excellent way to capture video that will later need more restoring. In many cases, it's also a perfect way to capture already-flawless video (non-VHS sources) directly to DVD-ready MPEG files. (Note: For VHS sources, it can be used for direct-to-MPEG recording, and will look decent filtered with VideoSoap, but LSI chipset based DVD recorders, such as the JVC DR-M10 and DR-M100 models, will do better.)

As far as the nuanced differences between the various ATI All In Wonder Radeon cards,
Read this post: ATI All In Wonder Hacks, Drivers, Codecs and MMC

The 2006 edition card was the last AGP slot card, and was for AGP 4x/8x motherboards only. Only buy this card is your motherboard has a true 8x AGP slot in it. Otherwise it will not function. That's the only real trick. I don't offhand recall what versions of ATI MMC 9.x it was limited to, but would not be surprised if it was for the final non-VideoSoap editions.

If it is sold as "new" and the seller is not lying, then I think it's fair to assume all parts be present.

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  #4  
07-06-2012, 02:34 PM
Zerowalker Zerowalker is offline
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I got a Conexant 2388x, MSI TV @nywhere, how is that compared to the one recommended?
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  #5  
07-13-2012, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerowalker View Post
I got a Conexant 2388x, MSI TV @nywhere, how is that compared to the one recommended?
I don't completely recall if this is an MPEG-2 hardware encoder, or if it was a generic BT8x8/Conexant type capture chipset (meaning AVI-only capturing suggested). I do at least remember that it gave decent quality captures for its time. What software comes with it? Or what should have come with it, when it was new? I know a lot of so-called "MPEG" cards were using really lousy MPEG software, like PowerVCR, WinDVR or neoDVD -- all of which shriveled up and went away, which is good.

Jog my memory.

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  #6  
07-13-2012, 06:15 PM
Zerowalker Zerowalker is offline
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I have no idea what the original software is supposed to be.
I bougth the card separate from Ebay, and used special drivers to get it working in windows 7 x64.
And now i am currently using it in Dscaler, which in the latest version has a unique drivers which works even better.

I can capture Yuy2 Lossless, NTSC,PAL,SECAM,PAL60(only with dscaler driver).

Donīt know whatīs more important, maybe that the White Crush isnīt Ideal so i am trying to tweak it.
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  #7  
07-19-2012, 02:57 AM
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I don't remember how the quality compared to ATI and others listed here.
But I will say this: I do NOT remember there being any widespread complaints about this card. And that's a good sign.

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07-21-2012, 02:44 PM
Zerowalker Zerowalker is offline
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Well that's good

But what is the main difference between cards? As there isn't a Precise way to capture analogue.
If we skip the part where they drop frames thanks to no-tbc etc, or the likes. And just go with the quality of the picture?

From what i have read does the Intensity Pro have issues with frame drops without a TBC, when older cards (ATI, Conextant etc) doesnīt.
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09-01-2012, 12:19 PM
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Compared to the 878, there's adaptive comb filtering and 10bit adc. The white crush problem could be corrected by another device with a procamp. The procamp controls on the cx only multiply the values that were already digitized. The cx has one nice feature though, a vbi mode that can record the entire raw signal including hsync, about 1400 pixels per line. I'm working on using that for line-tbc.
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  #10  
09-01-2012, 06:36 PM
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Oh i see, well i wouldnīt want something else in my chain.

And yeah i know, from Doom9, itīs really interesting, and tell me if i can help you with anything.
I am not technical and stuff, but i have the card so i may be able to do something perhaps

But why canīt the White Crush be solved without something else in the chain btw?
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  #11  
09-14-2012, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmac698 View Post
The white crush problem could be corrected by another device with a procamp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerowalker View Post
But why canīt the White Crush be solved without something else in the chain btw?
It's almost impossible to correct crushing problems, as the data is lost. Hence crushed. All a proc amp does is compensate for it.

Black levels (IRE) isn't quite as bad of an issue, as it tends to just brighten black, as opposed to destroy shadows. But it's in the same family of errors. And it can go either way -- reparable or irreparable.

Also remember that this can alter luminance, which includes green color shifting.

Ideally, you want all devices to respect colorspaces properly.

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03-18-2015, 10:25 AM
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I see BM has a new Intensity Pro 4K. It replaced the Intensity Pro, and comes with DaVinci Resolve Lite (as a download), at the same $190 price point (at B&H).

Anyone tried it? It supports 10-bit analog capture now, both uncompressed and compressed formats. It requires 4-lane (or more) PCIe v2 slot (the prior Pro card did work in a 1-lane).

The TBC mentioned on their site is not a true TBC in the usual line or frame/field sense. It was described as being more tolerant of time base error and will be less likely to drop the video. Instead of dropping video with time base error you now capture it with any time base error visible.

Anyone tried it?
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03-23-2015, 06:22 PM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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It does drop frames. On VideoHelp I shared my experience trying it out. I haven't had time to do anything more with it yet.
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03-25-2015, 08:37 PM
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Bump!bump!bump!bump!
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  #15  
04-26-2015, 01:08 AM
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I've taken over this sticky thread, and have given some updates. If you have something to add, please do so.

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  #16  
09-02-2015, 07:20 AM
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The first one capture card in the list is Hauppauge 610 USB2 capture stick. Does this mean that other cards with same chipset (Conexant CX23012) are as good as this card or is it special in some way? I have AVerMedia DVD EZMaker 7 and Gotview MasterHD 5, but I have one issue with them, and I wonder if I have to replace them or just getting one of the recommended VCR will be enough to solve it?
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12-05-2015, 08:58 AM
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Two quick checks on the MD Intensity Pro and Intensity Pro 4K capture cards.

Source: live s-video feed from a NTSC Canon XL1 3-CCD camcorder.
Target: MacBeth ColorChecker chart illuminated by two halogen floods
Manual white balance to gray card.
Exposure set so that the bright white square (lower left) is on the verge of zebra (about 95 IRE)
The IP and IP4K Desktop Video Utility capture configuration in neutral setting.
Uncompressed 4:2:2 8-bit YUV AVI capture format.
No filters or other processing applied

The JPG created by loading the video clips on an Edius 7.5 Pro timeline and a still saved for each clip.
Still1205_00001.JPG from the Intensity Pro with the 10.4.2 drivers and Media Express 3.4.1.
Still1205_00002.JPG from the Intensity Pro 4K with the 10.5.1 drivers and Media Express 3.5.

Note that this is from a stable source, and says nothing about the ability of the cards to capture from a source providing a signal is outside the NTSC legal bounds. It does show the differences between the cards/drivers color balance.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg Still1205_00001.jpg (28.8 KB, 48 downloads)
File Type: jpg Still1205_00002.jpg (28.1 KB, 38 downloads)
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12-05-2015, 01:53 PM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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If these are being fed the same signal, it looks like your IP4K is also misaligning the image (causing the bottom to be cropped) like mine.
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12-05-2015, 04:13 PM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
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Same signal source and settings, but the camera may have shifted a bit as the cables were changed from one computer to the other.
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  #20  
12-06-2015, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpalomaki View Post
Two quick checks on the MD Intensity Pro and Intensity Pro 4K capture cards.
The Blackmagic cards just have too many flaws to be suggested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivan View Post
The first one capture card in the list is Hauppauge 610 USB2 capture stick. Does this mean that other cards with same chipset (Conexant CX23012) are as good as this card
Well, you have to remember that cards are more than chipsets alone. In the world of photo, Nikon and Sony both use Sony sensors. But the cameras are vastly different, and both makers have their own use of the sensors. Video is the same. They may use the chips, but they're not the same.

AVerMedia is not a quality brand.

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