Manual gain controls are grayed out on ATI 650 card!

[metaleonid]

Help needed!!! Attached is the video properties of the driver for the Sapphire Theatrix Theater PRO 650 card. As you see I circled Gamma, White Balance and Backlight Comp controls. They are grayed out (disabled). Is there any way to tweak the driver and enable them? Please help. Thank you.

[kpmedia]

I forget the condition by which those controls are unavailable. I believe it may be source-related. What is the input source?

RegEdit may be your friend. As far back as the ATI AIW 128 cards (1999-2000), some settings were visible and tweakable in the Windows registry. Sometimes the entries are clearly labeled, too, which is helpful. The clear labeling in switches is one reason Macrovision detection could be disabled at the software level in the early ATI cards. Noting that hardware detection would still kick in on certain tapes.

[metaleonid]

In fact, yesterday I did try to find registry entries that I could potentially alter. But I couldn't find anything.

Then there's an obvious question. How have you guys been doing video capture from analog sources if you aren't able to adjust gamma? Don't you have a lot of bright white color spread out in the image? I can post the images with and without gamma control so that you know the difference.

In fact this is not only for ATI cards I own. This same thing is also for LifeView FlyVideo and Compro VideoMate cards I own. I think it's a part of WDM driver. The thing with LifeView is that I used the software capturing app that bypasses WDM driver and thus I can control gamma manually inside that app. But this is only for specific cards. So anyway if anyone knows any tips, please provide.

[Steve(MS)]

Seems like I read that the 650 has AGC, if that is so then that would be the reason they are greyed out.

[metaleonid]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve(MS)

Seems like I read that the 650 has AGC, if that is so then that would be the reason they are greyed out.

Thank you. Do you know if there is a way to turn AGC off?

I guess the conclusion is: there doesn't seem to exist "a so called" dream capture device which has all 3 features:
motion adaptive 3d y/c separation comb filter, manual gamma control and the ability to capture uncompressed. At least I haven't found anything. I've been googling it for a while. If any of you aware of such "dream" capture device, let me know.

Funny that I have 3 capture devices, but each of them has only 2 features: ADVC-300 has 1 and 2, but DV only, LifeView FlyVideo has 2 and 3 and ATI has 1 and 3. And I think the lack of #2 would result in worse quality.

I know I can put a "middle man" (3d comb filter), but I don't want to do it 'cause the LaserDisc player separates Y/C internaly and puts it back for composite outputs. The damage ADC-DAC-ADC is already done. Putting a middle man will result in ADC-DAC-ADC-DAC-ADC.

--Leonid

[Steve(MS)]

Actually let me correct myself, if could be the reason they are grayed out. I read sometime ago over on vh one guy complain that the 650 had AGC. I don't know which version he had either, whether usb or pci. This site recommends the 600 over other models for the main reason it has been tested out but perhaps because the 650 has the AGC too....

Back to your problem though if you can place a hardware procamp between vcr and capture, that would be one way to adjust things like brightness and the like. So according to what you are willing to spend and get....if it were me, I would get a proc amp and get the 600 usb and if you don't have a decent dvd recorder, get one of those too. I don't know if there are any users here that have the 650, if so they could chime in and let you know if it is sufficient or whether you need to get the 600...

Its best to collect what is recommended on this site and be careful about what isn't mentioned....
Good luck whichever way you go...some of this is learned by trial and error.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

They are grayed out (disabled). Is there any way to tweak the driver and enable them?

This is one reason why a hard proc amp is suggested, as opposed to software-based proc amp controls. The software based controls don't always work. It's as simple as that. For example, I've seen them work 100% properly on some ATI AIW card setups, but fail to function on others. The problem appears to be random, though it's often assumed to be a mix of issues with source and drivers. Not all features are available to all source types.

Quote:

The damage ADC-DAC-ADC is already done. Putting a middle man will result in ADC-DAC-ADC-DAC-ADC.

This isn't really an issue, for reasons explained in this thread: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...html#post20979 in post#7.

Your sources aren't going to good enough for this to have an practical application. It's mostly theoretical loss.

[metaleonid]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve(MS)

were me, I would get a proc amp and get the 600 usb and if you don't have a decent dvd recorder, get one of those too. I don't know if there are any users here that have the 650, if so they could chime in and let you know if it is sufficient or whether you need to get the 600...

Hi Steve,

Thank you. I have of course looked at 600 USB before I bought 650. Right I now have both 650 ATI devices: USB (VisionTek) and PCI (Sapphire). The 600 doesn't have 3d comb filter so I went with 650 one. By the way on Diamond Multimedia website it says that the 600 one also has AGC.

DVD recorder is not an option. I don't want to digitize into mpeg2. I would like to digitize into losslessly compressed AVI. Then I will make a decision whether to go for DVDs or Blu-Rays or whatever format will be available.

As for my budget? Honestly, after seeking the capture device that satisfy my needs, I am ready to spend even 1K just to be done with it with highest quality possible. Then I will just sell the device and LaserDisc player.

--Leonid

[metaleonid]

I just got Elite Video - Broadcast Video Processor Plus off of ebay for $338 all together. But no manual. Haven't tested it yet. Does anyone happen to have manual? I am not sure what most of the knobs and controls mean. Thanks.

[NJRoadfan]

Manual is here on the forums: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...video-bvp.html

[lordsmurf]

Certain JVC Professional Series DVD recorders also recorded to DV tape.

[admin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve(MS)

Seems like I read that the 650 has AGC, if that is so then that would be the reason they are greyed out.

I can confirm this is the issue. I tested some (finally!) this weekend. ATI 600 vs. ATI 650 on Windows 7.
It disappointing that ATI made a POS card in the post-AIW era.

Note: I know the post is somewhat old (1 year), but everybody involved is still around, and it's an important confirmation.

[metaleonid]

What do you mean by POS card? So you finally tested this USB device that I sent you a while back?

[Steve(MS)]

It means "piece of s---".

If you live in the U.S., you likely will know what goes in the blanks.

[metaleonid]

LOL. Sad but true.

[msgohan]

LS, what's wrong with the 650?

On the subject of multiple A-D-A-D-A-D, I think I might try this with some test patterns to see if there is anything to the idea of visible generational loss.

Quote:

Originally Posted by metaleonid

there doesn't seem to exist "a so called" dream capture device which has all 3 features:
motion adaptive 3d y/c separation comb filter, manual gamma control and the ability to capture uncompressed. At least I haven't found anything. I've been googling it for a while. If any of you aware of such "dream" capture device, let me know.

Funny that I have 3 capture devices, but each of them has only 2 features: ADVC-300 has 1 and 2, but DV only

I thought the ADVCs all used Philips SAA7113H.

BTW, I'm pretty sure the greyed out options only exist on the Proc Amp page because the driver model doesn't differentiate between any type of video input device. Those bottom settings are enabled for webcams.

[metaleonid]

Quote:

Originally Posted by msgohan

LS, what's wrong with the 650?

On the subject of multiple A-D-A-D-A-D, I think I might try this with some test patterns to see if there is anything to the idea of visible generational loss.



I thought the ADVCs all used Philips SAA7113H.

BTW, I'm pretty sure the greyed out options only exist on the Proc Amp page because the driver model doesn't differentiate between any type of video input device. Those bottom settings are enabled for webcams.

So how would I enable it for ATI card?

[msgohan]

I'm not sure what you're asking. ATI cards aren't webcams.

[metaleonid]

So ATI 650 is not an option. What about USB ATI 600? Does it have manual gain in proc amp settings?

[lordsmurf]

The ATI 600 USB is fine.

You can fund these cards on both Amazon and eBay.
All you need is the "stick" and the jutting out bundle of wires (composite, s-video). The remote/antenna/etc is worthless.