ATI AIW MMC Windows 2K vs XP + create test recordings

[dianedebuda]

Set up AIW (AGP, 32) with MMC 8.x on Asus A7V mb (Athlon t-bird 1.3) under Windows 2000 an eternity ago, 2000?. Belated thanks to LordSmurf's guides from then; reason I'm Premium now. Used that sucker for a long time until HD arrived. Getting ready for analog/digital conversion of VHS & Hi8 (mostly analog but some digital) home movies. Going to setup a variety of conversion methods with what I already have to see what's the best "right now" before buying anything else.

Q1: The old W2K box is still operational. I remember there was some concern at the time about XP overhead/"security" slowing things down. (funny now, yes?) Wondering if it's worth my time to build an XP version on an Athlon 64 box? I remember my MMC build was really solid but a real PIA to setup.

Q2: To test my various conversion methods/hardware & software setups, I'm thinking about recording a 2-5 min segment from a cable DVR using both my Sony TRV480 and my JVC VCR. Any suggestions on type of material that might also give me a preview of digital quality? I'm thinking maybe Travel Channel Hawaiian beach, mountain scenery, city park or something like that. My videos are usual mix of both outdoor & indoor shots

Edit: I guess I should mention that I'm looking only at the capture part; editing and beyond will be done on a Win7 64 quad box.

Also, A7V only supports IDE; the Athlon 64 2.2 box has IDE & SATA 1.5

[dianedebuda]

Think I posted in wrong section. Probably should have been in project planning?

[lordsmurf]

If it's in the wrong section, I'll move it.

Well, I have bad news for you. The Athlon 1.3Ghz system is too slow, and Windows 2000 is a problem. Ideally, you need to use Windows XP SP2 (not non-SP, SP1 or SP3), and at least 2.0Ghz. Sometimes 1.8Ghz would work, but starting at 1.7Ghz, you'd start to have dropped frames and sync issues.

The XP / Athlon 64 system would be much better.

Wrestling is one of the most intense scenes there are -- lots of detail, flashing lights, scene changes, movement.
Then comes action -- action movie, car racing, football, etc.
The everything else.
Cartoons are one of the easier sources to encode.
All VHS tapes have noise, and the head-switching noise in the overscan is a real bitrate thief.

There nothing wrong about capturing with either IDE or SATA1. Just be careful of VIA 4-in-1 drivers. Those can conflict on some hardware. I really hated those days, and it's why I often avoided AMD system.

[volksjager]

1 thing ive run into is if you use an AMD 64 CPU you must use MMC 9.0 - 9.02 to retain Videosoap.
videosoap will be greyed out on 8.9 and lower with an AMD 64

[dianedebuda]

Athlon 1.3 too slow: was afraid of that. Had tiny hope that XP overhead might balance W2K on that box. Used to capture c-band stuff at 4.52, but figured that I'd have to do a higher rate for these home movies. Guess I was lucky that I never had VIA 4-in-1 headaches. Only real problem that I have building the Athlon 64 box is that the only XP that I have available is MCE 2004 which I know is not the preferred edition. Well, actually I do have some old, original version 30-day trials of XP Pro around too. Think I used MMC 8.8 on the W2K box, but volksjager's note may make that a problem on the Athlon 64 box.

I've got a variety of "already Have" stuff to try: AIW (AGP, 32) on the Athlon 64 box, an ATI 550 pci, an ATI 650 pci (know about design flaw), HD-PVR, iLink using TVR480, Polaroid 2001G (as a DVD recorder and as a pass-through to see if it makes any difference). Undecided whether to test 550 & 650 on the Athlon 64 box or a Socket 939 Athlon 64x2 box (has XP MMC 2004 SP3, but can rebuild to SP2) or a new Asus F2 box that I'll be building with XP Pro and Win7 Pro (separate drives). Guess you can see I'm an AMD user; probably because of price, Radeon familiarity & the fact that AMD has a local presence here in Austin.

Expect my best result for Hi8 (digital) will be with iLink. Guess it will depend on how TVR480 converts to analog for other methods. Have no real expectations for Hi8 (analog) & VHS. Have known weaknesses right now: no TBC & JVC VCR is consumer HiFi, not prosumer sVCR. Have a lot of Guides to read & study.

Wrestling: would have never thought of that. Don't know if I can stand multiple replays while testing though. Makes sense about action being a better test - guess I was thinking detail & color. Got a couple of bluray movies that I captured with HD-PVR (h.264 TS, 13.5 variable) that I could use to build a test clip with VideoReDo. Hate DVD menus and prefer to see my movies on my home LAN instead of inserting DVD - lazy? Another option is grabbing something from HBO or HD-on-Demand using my cable PVR. Figure those should be be at least as good or better when recorded to Hi8 (digital) and VHS than my home movies tapes. Just trying to limit wear-and-tear on the old tapes and have a common source for comparison.

I hate writing posts; how'd this get to be so long?

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dianedebuda

that the only XP that I have available is MCE 2004 which I know is not the preferred edition. Well, actually I do have some old, original version 30-day trials of XP Pro around too.

Most people download unofficial copies of Windows XP, now that Microsoft has quit selling it. If you still have an old CD, there are ways to remove the 30-day trial. Not suggesting this, but also not condemning it. It is what it is. When official methods to obtain things are rendered unavailable, people will turn to unofficial ones. What people will NOT do is do without.

Quote:

Expect my best result for Hi8 (digital) will be with iLink.

"iLink" is another name for Firewire 400 + DV. Personally, I prefer to convert 8mm tape formats with an ATI card, either to 4:2:0 MPEG or 4:2:2 lossless -- not lossy 4:1:1 DV. DV was never meant to be a conversion format. But you can certainly do it if you want.

Quote:

Have known weaknesses right now: no TBC & JVC VCR is consumer HiFi, not prosumer sVCR. Have a lot of Guides to read & study.

You'll need to at least get
(1) a good VCR,
(2) a good TBC,
(3) a good capture card.

Quote:

Hate DVD menus and prefer to see my movies on my home LAN instead of inserting DVD - lazy?

I play the DVD ISO files over the network with a WDTV Live.
Amazong has some: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...&tag=thdifa-20

Quote:

I hate writing posts; how'd this get to be so long?

This is why I use few words.

[dianedebuda]

Like I said, am planning to try several scenerios with existing equipment just to compare outputs. May be "good enough" or need "more". The JVC HiFi VCR was very good for its time, just not a prosumer level. My weakest link: no TBC.

Quote:

Expect my best result for Hi8 (digital) will be with iLink.

What I mean here is that (as I understand) the recordings actually recorded by the TRV480 are stored digitally on the tape, not in analog format. I'm assuming that I'd get "everything" with an iLink xfer; if I "play" it, it has to do a digital/analog conversion. Have I made a bad assumption? Does the iLink xfer only send part of what is digitally on the Hi8 tape? Edit: per volksjager's next post, I should be saying Digital8, not Hi8 (digital) here.

Found a 120-day trial of orig XP Pro among the junk I acquired when I used to attend MS briefings. Have updated to SP2 and only added a handful of non-security updates since my 2 test boxes are standalone. Am finally ready to add my ATI stuff.

Quote:

I play the DVD ISO files over the network with a WDTV Live.

Have one of those & an Asus O!Play Air which I like better. But mostly I play my vids on my computer with PowerDVD or mpc-hc64.

[volksjager]

VHS without a TBC you are going to get alot of dropped frames.

original tapes made on a Sony DCR-TRV480 are Digital8 and not Hi8
Digital8 records DV footage onto Hi8 tapes
for digital 8 you simply need to transfer the footage to a PC via firewire - no capturing required

[dianedebuda]

Thanks, guess I was using the wrong term. My "Hi8 (digital)" should have been Digital8.

Quote:

VHS without a TBC you are going to get alot of dropped frames.

Only have around a dozen VHS tapes. Am checking TBC prices while I do this testing. If Hi8s can be done ok "as is" w/o TBC, may be as cheap to have the VHS done by a pro if my conversions are not "good enough".

[volksjager]

if you only have a dozen tape you will save tons of time and money by have them done by a pro.
the site staff here can do them.

[dianedebuda]

Only a dozen or so VCR tapes; many, many Hi8 & Digital8 tapes. One (and only one) VCR tape is "commercial": from the Polynesian Cultural Center and has MacroVision. I confirmed with them that this particular show was never available on DVD, so I've got to mess with it. Would guess pros don't touch this stuff. Somewhat paranoid about "sending" tapes - bad experiences with shippers/post office from time to time I guess.

[kpmedia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dianedebuda

One (and only one) VCR tape is "commercial": from the Polynesian Cultural Center and has MacroVision. I confirmed with them that this particular show was never available on DVD, so I've got to mess with it. Would guess pros don't touch this stuff. Somewhat paranoid about "sending" tapes - bad experiences with shippers/post office from time to time I guess.

It's fine.

We've literally sent thousand of package in the past, and have zero issues. There's two rules to safe shipping:

1. Send it fast, not slow. UPS/Fedex 2-3 day is best, and has tracking. USPS Priority Mail is okay, but not best. UPS/Fedex Ground is okay, too.
2. Use a sturdy box with plenty of padding. Far too many people use too little padding, and use envelopes. I've seen many electronics arrive completely ruined because of this (VCRs, DVD recorders, proc amp, etc). Sometimes tapes arrive with clamshells damaged because it this. eBay and Amazon sellers skimp on padding far too often.