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  #21  
06-15-2014, 09:51 PM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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Originally Posted by premiumcapture View Post
Mine is set to report dropped frames, you're saying it does it anyways?
Yes it does. And it doesn't reinsert it, so once the frame is dropped your footage is shorter by 33 milliseconds (for NTSC).

I was using it on MacBookPro with SSHD. Mine also was set to report dropped frames.
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  #22  
06-15-2014, 09:53 PM
premiumcapture premiumcapture is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metaleonid View Post
Yes it does. And it doesn't reinsert it, so once the frame is dropped your footage is shorter by 33 milliseconds (for NTSC).

I was using it on MacBookPro with SSHD. Mine also was set to report dropped frames.
But besides the actual time, how did you find out that frames were dropped? Couldn't this just be a delay in starting/ending?
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  #23  
06-15-2014, 10:35 PM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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Because I was doing simultaneous capture going from LD-S2 not only to Black Magic but also into VC500 USB stick using VirtualDub on my laptop computer (S-Video to S-Video). And then I would again recapture the whole LD using yet another card ATI HD 750 PCIe on my desktop computer (Windows XP/VirtualDub/Composite). I then would compare the footages. The ones using VC500 and ATI HD 750 PCIe perfectly matched. But the one using Black Magic Intensity Shuttle would be short up to 8 frames. A couple of times it didn't lose any frames. A few times it lost 4 frames and a couple of times it lost 8 frames. Later I did find all the places where Black Magic lost frames. It was some kind of pattern because the distance between missing frames was almost identical. I reinserted the missing frames from VC500 capture.

The footage is usually an hour long or less. It's one side of the LaserDisc.

This is the AVISynth script I was using to convert from MOV to Huffyuv AVI:

clip1 = QTInput("Untitled 01.mov", audio = 1)
clip1 = crop(clip1, 0, 2, -0, -4)
return clip1

If you want to know why in hell I was doing 3 different captures of the same footage, that's another story.
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  #24  
06-16-2014, 04:24 AM
premiumcapture premiumcapture is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metaleonid View Post
Because I was doing simultaneous capture going from LD-S2 not only to Black Magic but also into VC500 USB stick using VirtualDub on my laptop computer (S-Video to S-Video). And then I would again recapture the whole LD using yet another card ATI HD 750 PCIe on my desktop computer (Windows XP/VirtualDub/Composite). I then would compare the footages. The ones using VC500 and ATI HD 750 PCIe perfectly matched. But the one using Black Magic Intensity Shuttle would be short up to 8 frames. A couple of times it didn't lose any frames. A few times it lost 4 frames and a couple of times it lost 8 frames. Later I did find all the places where Black Magic lost frames. It was some kind of pattern because the distance between missing frames was almost identical. I reinserted the missing frames from VC500 capture.

The footage is usually an hour long or less. It's one side of the LaserDisc.

This is the AVISynth script I was using to convert from MOV to Huffyuv AVI:

clip1 = QTInput("Untitled 01.mov", audio = 1)
clip1 = crop(clip1, 0, 2, -0, -4)
return clip1

If you want to know why in hell I was doing 3 different captures of the same footage, that's another story.
Did the missing frames noticeably affect playback (sync/stutter)?
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  #25  
06-16-2014, 07:21 AM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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In my case they could because I was taking digital soundtrack directly from optical toss link off of the LD player (not via Black Magic) and then matched with the video manually. Otherwise I wouldn't worry too much.
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  #26  
06-16-2014, 10:17 AM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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And by the way, if you have Black Magic Intensity Shuttle with Thunderbolt, why would you be looking into Canopus ADVC-300? Are you using Black Magic with MAC or with PC?
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  #27  
06-16-2014, 11:04 AM
premiumcapture premiumcapture is offline
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I have a mac and parallels so I can run both. I have read many stories about people being happy with the 300 so I was t to see a capture sample before I officially condemn it as many others have done. There really aren't many new good current options for either OS for analog capture.
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  #28  
06-16-2014, 12:18 PM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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A while back I read that Black Magic Intensity Shuttle couldn't digitize VHS on its own unless you put TBC in between (too many dropped frames). Is it so? Can you confirm? I myself haven't tried digitizing VHS using Black Magic Intensity Shuttle. I've only used it to digitize LaserDiscs (with TBC built in to the player). The image quality was great. The only problem was missing frames.

If BM works for you, I wouldn't bother looking back into old technology of Canopus ADVC-300. Plus BM is uncompressed. ADVC only gives you an option to capture in DV. The good thing about Canopus is that it's very stable. You feed the crappy VHS to it and it doesn't choke and it almost never drops frames. The audio sync there is perfect too. I didn't like audio video sync of BM. I was feeding component video and RCA audio into BM. The audio was always ahead of video about 300 milliseconds or so. At the end I was merging digital audio into video anyway and disregarding the audio portion from that of BM. So this didn't matter. But if you pay $227 for the equipment as opposed to $30-$40 (Diamond Multimedia VC500 or Diamond Multimedia ATI 750 HD PCIe), you would expect the expensive equipment to be at least as stable as the cheap one. But it wasn't.

--Leonid

Last edited by metaleonid; 06-16-2014 at 01:01 PM.
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  #29  
06-17-2014, 09:05 AM
premiumcapture premiumcapture is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metaleonid View Post
A while back I read that Black Magic Intensity Shuttle couldn't digitize VHS on its own unless you put TBC in between (too many dropped frames). Is it so? Can you confirm? I myself haven't tried digitizing VHS using Black Magic Intensity Shuttle. I've only used it to digitize LaserDiscs (with TBC built in to the player). The image quality was great. The only problem was missing frames.

If BM works for you, I wouldn't bother looking back into old technology of Canopus ADVC-300. Plus BM is uncompressed. ADVC only gives you an option to capture in DV. The good thing about Canopus is that it's very stable. You feed the crappy VHS to it and it doesn't choke and it almost never drops frames. The audio sync there is perfect too. I didn't like audio video sync of BM. I was feeding component video and RCA audio into BM. The audio was always ahead of video about 300 milliseconds or so. At the end I was merging digital audio into video anyway and disregarding the audio portion from that of BM. So this didn't matter. But if you pay $227 for the equipment as opposed to $30-$40 (Diamond Multimedia VC500 or Diamond Multimedia ATI 750 HD PCIe), you would expect the expensive equipment to be at least as stable as the cheap one. But it wasn't.

--Leonid
Something people might not know - I hate VHS. It's terrible. Granted, it allowed us to make the advance towards what we have today but better technology was availible before it (Beta). Because I believe its terrible and its quality is terrible, I don't necessarily hate the Canopus. VHS is garbage to begin with. Certainly the quality loss will be noticeable to someone looking for it, but VHS being what it is, I even stretch to use the word quality.

The Intensity doesn't like VHS without a TBC. A built-in TBC on the AG 1980 or a JVC unit will generally suffice unless it has serious damage. I don't believe the intensity itself was built for analog capture - granted it can do it, but the hardware is built for someone capturing uncompressed digital video.
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  #30  
06-18-2014, 08:34 PM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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Premiumcapture, what source are you using to begin with? Hi8, VHS or you're not using any analog to begin with? If you're not using any analog source, forget Canopus. You really don't need it.
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  #31  
06-18-2014, 09:12 PM
premiumcapture premiumcapture is offline
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Just VHS for now. Not plugging in my AVCHD camera to capture to S-Video lol.

I was at a broadcast station on Monday working out details for a Vietnam documentary I will be making for TV. I asked for a tour of the tech and was surprised to find they have stations that take DV tapes and VHS. I was surprised to find their VCR was a JVC V10SU (or close model number), I was expecting a magic machine but VCRs are apparently just VCRs, the key to broadcasting is apparently the encoder they use for everything they air.
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  #32  
06-18-2014, 09:56 PM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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So and you need the device to digitize it, right? Have you tried Black Magic Intensity Shuttle with external TBC to digitize the VHS? What devices do you have in mind to use to digitize? Just curious?
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  #33  
06-18-2014, 10:26 PM
premiumcapture premiumcapture is offline
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Like I mentioned before, with a VCR that has a built-in TBC, the Blackmagic products generally won't drop frames, sometimes at the end where there is whitespace but it won't affect the final recording considering it gets cropped off.

I just ordered a brand new ATI 600, and will be giving that a go when it comes in the mail. The Intensity products seem to work well over HDMI, arguably one of the best HDMI capture devices out there, but for analog, I am thinking there are better suited devices.
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  #34  
06-18-2014, 10:51 PM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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The fact that you've ordered ATI 600 is a big mistake. I still don't understand why it is highly recommended here in this forum. Just take a look at this thread:

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...i-600-usb.html

I have one and it's exactly the same problem. People trash Canopus ADVC-300 for DV which results in bad chroma, but ATI 600 screws chroma up even worse. Yeah, I agree that $20 is better than $400 but still....

If you want to go with a similar device but with the ones that have good chroma, go with http://www.diamondmm.com/vc500-diamo...it-stream.html. This was recommended to me by a member msgohan who is on this forum. I'm sure he can recommend you the proc amp settings. If not, I can try to dig his email to me.

You can get it on newegg http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16815306013 or try to find it on Amazon.

But what I want to know is what exactly you are not happy with when you capture analog video using Black Magic?

As far as I remember I didn't like S-Video image quality from Black Magic. But I have no complaints about component video in.

BTW, I just sent you a private message.
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  #35  
06-19-2014, 11:47 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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From what I've read, there were several revisions of the ATI 600 card. Most do not have a problem, and mine is fine. It has some quirks (incompatibilities with some hardware setups/workflows), but this is not one of them. Not one that can be repeated, at least.

But again, the ATI AIW is better -- better than ATI 600, much better than ADVC 300 DV boxes.

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  #36  
06-24-2014, 10:25 AM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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Hi Lordsmurf,

Do you happen to have spare ATI 600 card that just like yours doesn't have an issue (I will be happy to buy one). Or can you at least point me out to one? The one I have has screwed up chroma.

ATI AIW is AGP or PCI, correct? Unfortunately there's not an option for me since I need to buy a special old computer for that. Unless someone has cheap for sale here.

Also in what way ATI AIW is better than ATI 600? Better color handling? Sharper? In what sense overall?

Thanks.

--Leonid
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  #37  
06-24-2014, 11:46 AM
volksjager volksjager is offline
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the later AIW cards are PCI-E
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  #38  
06-26-2014, 05:19 AM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
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Quote:
...the key to broadcasting ...
Content is king, followed by complying with the signal standards of the station.
Think back on some of the most compelling lousy image video of recent time. Was the Rodney King tape, or the Weather Channel storm footage.

As a point of slight interest, the old Pinncacle Systems DV500 and Liquid edition 5.5 (?) NLE systems capture was based on an ATI Rage chip-based video card that included an IEEE1394 port and a break-out box for analog I/O (composite, s-video and audio).
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  #39  
07-20-2014, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metaleonid View Post
Do you happen to have spare ATI 600 card
Nope, sorry.

Quote:
ATI AIW is AGP or PCI, correct? Unfortunately there's not an option for me since I need to buy a special old computer for that. Unless someone has cheap for sale here.
Or PCI express (PCIe)

Quote:
Also in what way ATI AIW is better than ATI 600? Better color handling? Sharper? In what sense overall?
Pretty much in every way possible. USB capture devices just do not have the bandwidth abilities of PCI, AGP or PCIe. Not to say the ATI 600 was bad -- it's not. But the ATI AIW cards are easily better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpalomaki View Post
As a point of slight interest, the old Pinncacle Systems DV500 and Liquid edition 5.5 (?) NLE systems capture was based on an ATI Rage chip-based video card that included an IEEE1394 port and a break-out box for analog I/O (composite, s-video and audio).
Interesting. I'd either never heard that, or have long ago forgotten this. (Probably the latter.)

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  #40  
12-01-2014, 04:24 PM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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So I finished archiving most of my VHS tapes. Throughout the process I've used 3 different capture devices. I did not use TBC. IMO each device gave best results for its own type of VHS based on its condition.

For horrible quality, unstable, more than 2nd generation VHS Canopus ADVC-300 gave the best results. There was no jitter, no tearing, no blown up whites and no dropped frames. The end result wasn't worse than original when comparing playback with original source on the conventional old school TV.

For the stable, great condition, not worn out VHS tapes LifeView FlyVideo 3000FM gave the best results. No blown up whites and the lines were straight.

Usually if the VHS were a bit used but OK, then Diamond ATI 750 HD USB would give the best result. I didn't notice any AGC problem either.

There were 3 VHS which I captured with all 3 devices.

So here's my conclusion:

1. For good quality VHS tapes Canopus ADVC-300 is not an option. It smoothes out the video even though I unselected all the filters. So the image is not as sharp as on the original VHS. It also inserts extra frames as a pattern around every 5-10 minutes which is OK on the bad VHS (who cares?) but not OK on good VHS.

2. For bad quality VHS both ATI 750 HD USB and LifeView FlyVideo 3000FM are not good. It looks like ATI 750HD USB has built-in TBC but it may result in a lot of jitter, in potential AGC problems, blown up whites and a few dropped frames here and there. LifeView FlyVideo may result in a lot more dropped frames and tearing at the top of the picture.

3. Interesting that on some good VHS ATI 750 HD USB and LifeView FlyVideo 3000FM performed almost identically well. On some other good VHS ATI 750 HD USB performed incredibly well whereas LifeView had a lot of tearing at the top and some dropped frames. On the 3rd set of good stable VHS LifeView FlyVideo 3000FM performed incredibly well (stable and getting all the colors right) whereas ATI 750 HD USB would have blown up whites here and there and wouldn't capture colors accurately.
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