Quantcast ATI AIW 7500 VE PCI vs ATI TV Wonder HD 750 - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
02-10-2015, 10:04 PM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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Take a look at test patterns. Especially at test pattern 2. What's up with in square above 6.75 (3rd row, 2nd column from the right) for ATI AiW 7500 VE PCI? Is it not enough bandwidth that it displays an empty square as opposed to thin vertical bars?

AiW7500VEPCIPattern1.PNG (340.9 KB)
AiW7500VEPCIPattern1.PNG

TVWonderHD750VPCIePattern1.PNG (271.8 KB)
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AiW7500VEPCIPattern2.PNG (424.9 KB)
TVWonderHD750VPCIePattern1.PNG

TVWonderHD750VPCIePattern2.PNG (384.3 KB)
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  #2  
02-10-2015, 10:08 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Embed images. I did it for you.
But I don't see what you're referring to. Use Greenshot, and draw a box around it.

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  #3  
02-10-2015, 10:36 PM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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Lordsmurf, if you look on the 2nd pattern at the 2nd row from the top, the 2nd column from the right, you will see an empty square for AIW VE 7500. This is right above the square numbered 6.75. But it should not be empty. Take a look at the same square for ATI TVWonder HD 750 PCIe.

PS. What's Greenshot?
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  #4  
02-10-2015, 10:41 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metaleonid View Post
PS. What's Greenshot?
How to take a screenshot / Take picture of computer screen
http://getgreenshot.org/

leonid-gs-sample.jpg

Neat.

And I'm still not understanding you. Greenshot is good for pointing things out. Use it.



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  #5  
02-10-2015, 11:00 PM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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I used mspaint's pencil to mark what I was talking about.

TV Wonder HD 750 PCIe marked
TVWonderHD750VPCIePattern2.PNG

AIW 7500 VE marked
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Last edited by metaleonid; 02-10-2015 at 11:20 PM.
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  #6  
02-10-2015, 11:23 PM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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And out of curiosity my former favorite LifeView FlyVideo 3000FM test patterns...

Test pattern 1:

LifeViewFlyVideo3000FMPattern1.PNG

Test pattern 2:

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  #7  
02-10-2015, 11:32 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Hmm. No moving objects? No lighting changes? No gradations? Boring.
Have you ever captured something with the 750 and watched the gamma and brightness start pumping like crazy?
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  #8  
02-10-2015, 11:50 PM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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I made a few entire DVDs using 750 off of the LaserDiscs. One is downloadable via torrent and is approved by the main actor. Want it?
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  #9  
02-11-2015, 04:45 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Uh, not with AGC screwing it up. Recalling what I saw of laserdiscs, they looked even more annoying that DV. Thanks anyway.

The test patterns with the 7500 look sharper, maybe it's the contrast.
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  #10  
02-11-2015, 05:33 AM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
Uh, not with AGC screwing it up. Recalling what I saw of laserdiscs, they looked even more annoying that DV.
The AGC issue comes up rarely. It came up only on 1 LD out of 5 that I digitized.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
The test patterns with the 7500 look sharper, maybe it's the contrast.
I don't see how they look sharper. 7500 has a little bit of crippled chroma. Look at the bottom squares with cyan vertical bars. These squares are labeled 1.0 and 1.5. It's ok for LaserDiscs though 'cause LDs don't produce as much chroma as DVDs.
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02-11-2015, 03:40 PM
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I see it now.

The "empty" square had a resolution that was too small for either card. The ATI AIW lost it, while the 750 turned it white from oversharpening. If anything, it shows that the 750 HD isn't passing a transparent signal, but one with boosted detail. Look carefully. It has several areas that are blown out from black-on-gray source to black-on-white in the card output.

Look especially at the fourth block from the right (two over from the "empty" block).

The 750 HD card has the issue here -- not the ATI AIW 7500 VE.

ati750-oversharpen.jpg



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  #12  
02-11-2015, 05:13 PM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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Thanks LordSmurf. This is weird. I put sharpness of 750 all the way to 0 (i.e. I make it minimum). Gotta try to boost sharpness for 7500 VE to see if it can pick it up the way 750 HD does it.

And what is your opinion on LifeView FlyVideo 3000FM performance on these test patterns?
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  #13  
02-11-2015, 05:41 PM
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The Flyvideo seems muddier (gray, not white), but resolution looks fine.

You really should use this: New before/after images bbcode for forum
That would make the A/B comparisons easier to see.
It's a few extra steps beyond just attaching, but well worth the effort.

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  #14  
02-11-2015, 10:23 PM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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Notice how the two captures aren't aligned with one another. The devices are capturing different areas of the entire analog signal, so there is a different offset between the incoming analog waveform and the digital sampler.

Jagabo once explained it better than I can, but I'm not sure where the post is. This article may make things clearer, or not.

The most important point about this, though, is that the results with these very high frequency patterns also depend on where the DVD player happens to place these oscillations. It's possible that this player happens to line up well with the newer ATI devices.

That said, it's also possible that the newer one really is better at grabbing the highest frequencies. It probably does more oversampling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Look especially at the fourth block from the right (two over from the "empty" block).

The 750 HD card has the issue here -- not the ATI AIW 7500 VE.

Attachment 4388
I disagree. That particular area isn't clean-looking even on the DVD source itself. Here are all three stacked up:
VHPatterns2-comparison.png


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  #15  
02-11-2015, 10:38 PM
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@metaleonid: Where's the original pattern?
@msgohan: Gray turning to white is always a tell-tale sign of sharpening. That's why I believe that's happening here.

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  #16  
02-11-2015, 10:46 PM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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@lordsmurf: The original is from Digital Video Essentials. The DVD player is Philips DVP-642. S-Video out of course.
@Brad: LifeView FlyVideo 3000FM is winning against ATI AiW 7500 VE as far as this high frequency square goes but losing as far as chroma goes.

Need to run with LaserDisc's Video Essentials.
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  #17  
02-12-2015, 11:01 PM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
@msgohan: Gray turning to white is always a tell-tale sign of sharpening. That's why I believe that's happening here.
The source has a similar amount of grey as the 750 capture in the block you mentioned.

300% nearest neighbour, MPEG2Source vs ATI 750 PCIe:
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